SpiderWars
Well-known member
Tone is between the ears. ???
Cenotaph
Active member
Good tone can inspire you to practice and can make you write and play differently. Good tone is also subjective.
Greazygeo
Well-known member
That is not what the concept of tone is in the hands means at all…. but by all means keep beating the dead horse. Carry on gents..
DanTravis62
Moderator
That's EXACTLY what's meant by the expression, we're just talking about degrees.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
Seems like some of the disagreements are a matter of perspective. What does tone is in the hands mean to you?
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
In addition to Tone being in the gear and Style being in the fingers, there’s another element not really being talked about, which is how they tie together. People don’t just hit the fretboard with their fingers and hope for the best, at least not good players. The way they play is a direct result of the feedback loop of how the gear and playing interacts. If gear gets too loud or too compressed or ice-picky, people will back off. If gear feeds back too much, players will often mute the strings more, etc. Basically, I’d say that a player’s Style is highly influenced by the Tone of the gear they’re playing, even if they don’t realize it, similar to how your driving style changes depending on whether you’re driving a sports car or a tractor.
One last thing is that the more a person leans on the “tone is in the fingers” stance, I think the more likely it is that they are to main a super clean, transparent, sensitive amp. Have you ever played on a boutique, class A amp rig setup to be loud and squeaky clean with a guitar that has bright, passive pickups? These rigs are often so sensitive that if you blink too hard, you’ll hear it through the speakers. For rigs like that, I’d argue that Style and Tone approach a kind of singularity where even the simplest open position A barre chord will sound wildly different if played by two different people, to the point that, without exaggeration, it would sound like two entirely different rigs are being played.
My point is that while I personally also go with that stance that Tone is in the gear and Style is in the fingers, I can see how people might conflate the two, depending on the gear they default to thinking of when they think about guitar.
One last thing is that the more a person leans on the “tone is in the fingers” stance, I think the more likely it is that they are to main a super clean, transparent, sensitive amp. Have you ever played on a boutique, class A amp rig setup to be loud and squeaky clean with a guitar that has bright, passive pickups? These rigs are often so sensitive that if you blink too hard, you’ll hear it through the speakers. For rigs like that, I’d argue that Style and Tone approach a kind of singularity where even the simplest open position A barre chord will sound wildly different if played by two different people, to the point that, without exaggeration, it would sound like two entirely different rigs are being played.
My point is that while I personally also go with that stance that Tone is in the gear and Style is in the fingers, I can see how people might conflate the two, depending on the gear they default to thinking of when they think about guitar.
Dino 939
Well-known member
Actually, it’s objective.
Them “tone factoids”…now we’re cooking with GAS.
Dino 939
Well-known member
Truth?
-Tone is in your ass-
It’s a molecular collection of everything.
Guess what?
There’s more to sound then just the guitar.
The mix?
How f’n much is ALL YOU and ALL GUITAR?
Ever see one of the greats perform with a slamming’ rhythm section, you be like
“Damn.. that sounds dope AF?”.
Take Diamond Darrell away from Vinnie,
EVH from big AVH?
Or take “Thunderfingers” outta The Who?
Jimmy Pagey’ with no BONHAM?
-That’s why I say
“He’ll eat your ass up there man”-
There have been reports of grown men
“Spooning” in bed with their amplifiers”
Groan the tones!!!
You tell me:
*EPIC bass guitar player…listen to that wind-up
Pre-chorus bass guitar section… ,
DOPE AF!!!!!’WHOA!!!!*
-Tone is in your ass-
It’s a molecular collection of everything.
Guess what?
There’s more to sound then just the guitar.
The mix?
How f’n much is ALL YOU and ALL GUITAR?
Ever see one of the greats perform with a slamming’ rhythm section, you be like
“Damn.. that sounds dope AF?”.
Take Diamond Darrell away from Vinnie,
EVH from big AVH?
Or take “Thunderfingers” outta The Who?
Jimmy Pagey’ with no BONHAM?
-That’s why I say
“He’ll eat your ass up there man”-
There have been reports of grown men
“Spooning” in bed with their amplifiers”
Groan the tones!!!
You tell me:
*EPIC bass guitar player…listen to that wind-up
Pre-chorus bass guitar section… ,
DOPE AF!!!!!’WHOA!!!!*
Last edited:
I
itsme
Well-known member
If you have a chance, get a few good players to play the same guitar thru an amp and see what you think. I’ve had a few really good players play thru my amps with the same guitar and was blown away at how it sounded like we were all playing thru completely different rigs. In my opinion the biggest difference comes from the picking hand. How much you mute/dampen the strings and how you strike the note. Tone gets fatter the more you can keep palm contact while letting the notes ring.
tlp1234
Moderator
Without reading every post, I venture out to say 99% of all are correct.
As with many things, there's a bit of truth in each statetment.
BUT......obviously, it is not any one thing but combination of many that also change over time, over each instance. Metaphorically, a moving target.
One thing I've noticed over many, many years is how confirmation bias (and other biases) color what we believe we hear.
I've heard things out of rigs that made no sense to me how great (or not) they sounded. Yet the rig would sound different in my hands, and yet someone elses too.
Emotion and personal biases affect our perception of things far more than we realize.
The last 15 years of this type self reflection and critical thought (if it can be called that) has given me much pause in quickly praising or condeming any rig, and also if I suspect limitations keeping me from getting what I'm looking for, I look to myself first for those limitations.
As with many things, there's a bit of truth in each statetment.
BUT......obviously, it is not any one thing but combination of many that also change over time, over each instance. Metaphorically, a moving target.
One thing I've noticed over many, many years is how confirmation bias (and other biases) color what we believe we hear.
I've heard things out of rigs that made no sense to me how great (or not) they sounded. Yet the rig would sound different in my hands, and yet someone elses too.
Emotion and personal biases affect our perception of things far more than we realize.
The last 15 years of this type self reflection and critical thought (if it can be called that) has given me much pause in quickly praising or condeming any rig, and also if I suspect limitations keeping me from getting what I'm looking for, I look to myself first for those limitations.
Ben Waylin
Banned
Well-known member
Dopethrone
Active member
There is vintage digital sound And modern digital sound
Neither are better than ANY tube amp w/some analog pedals if needed.
But anything anyone can make functional if affordable, they’re going to justify tonally once purchased. Me included. FM3 foh and one guitar. Tempting. Every time. Amps win tho.
The crowd and listeners don’t know the difference.
But I feel that my favorite tube amp brings out a better performance and allows me to tap into the creative flow easier. Digital sims allows for a faster workflow, trying endless “things” and “tweaks” but really doesn’t cut it tonally to me in room. That transfers to performance I think.
Neither are better than ANY tube amp w/some analog pedals if needed.
But anything anyone can make functional if affordable, they’re going to justify tonally once purchased. Me included. FM3 foh and one guitar. Tempting. Every time. Amps win tho.
The crowd and listeners don’t know the difference.
But I feel that my favorite tube amp brings out a better performance and allows me to tap into the creative flow easier. Digital sims allows for a faster workflow, trying endless “things” and “tweaks” but really doesn’t cut it tonally to me in room. That transfers to performance I think.