So this is why (warning Metallica content)...

IronSean said:
There's a difference between playing that fast, and playing that fast consistently enough to triple track 3 really tight guitar tracks to tape while the recording studio time is running and you need to get an album out the door. Obviously they weren't getting the level of inhuman precision they wanted and had to figure out a way to.
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1000%. If you play ONE track, and had it on a metronome or whatever, and you are good, it'll sound really tight. Put two on and now there's going to be a serious struggle. Though it MIGHT just sound fat like that if there aren't too many staccato parts
 
IronSean said:
The whole Master of Puppets album start to finish was done September to December 1985. And that would include setting up for and recording all the different instruments on the analogue equipment of 1985.

They made a decision to get the sound they wanted which is no worse at least than modern people quantizing every drum and guitar note.
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however long it was, it wasnt a time issue, it was they couldnt play as fast and as tight as they wanted, so they cheated. its not changing my opinion of the album, if anything it just helped me in my guitar journey cause i spent who knows how many hours practicing over their albums learning every nuance at full speed, but finding out one of my favorite bands recorded slow and sped it up is like finding out my favorite player who won me a championship was cheating on steroids the whole time, i still love the dude and the memories are great and will last forever, but now its tainted knowing he cheated. i take pride in recording everything i record in one take as if it was a live band, hearing bands do much as much editing as some dude bums me out
 
PurityS.L.G said:
Het used to nail puppets during the Black Album tour but he struggles these days.

While on topic, to the guys with mighty right hands, do you notice that you've slowed down a tad or just don't have the same arm stamina as you got older? I used to be able to chug to 220bpm for 3-4mins straight no sweat and now I struggle to get past 2mins. Aging is a bitch 😭
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I cut my teeth on playing that Hetfield downpick chug. Im like you man. As I get older, I cant do that anymore so im over in the corner like B.B. King, sweating and holding one note.
 
angelspade said:
I think we all know that Hetfield can in fact play MOP st this speed with precision. But I've always thought there is this odd feel, tightness and tonality to the rhythm guitar tracks....this definitely explains it, at least for me.
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Ya he can play it at album speed for sure. I'm sure there's concert footage of them playing it even faster too. This old news about them speeding up the tracks to tighten them a bit though.

Sucks that I can't play this song at album speed anymore, downpicked. I could in my 20's all day but I got on a medication that fucks with my fine motor skills. I hate it.
 
romanianreaper said:
I cut my teeth on playing that Hetfield downpick chug. Im like you man. As I get older, I cant do that anymore so im over in the corner like B.B. King, sweating and holding one note.
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Lol, me too and I'm only 42. I don't know how Hetfield still does it. My excuse is medication related though.
 
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WizardAmpIphoneClip said:
Bro who takes 6 months to record their songs
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Huh, Master Of Puppets was tracked a lot faster than that and Hetfield had like 6 rhythm tracks for each song. It wasn't till the black album that they started recording at such a slow pace... Over a year for that album.
 
I doubled tracked this a while back without a metronome, just using the original track with the guitars removed. The beginning where there's long stretches without drums were just me playing and hoping the drums came in at the right time.



Lol you bet your ass it took multiple takes and cutting parts together, hah. Coming up with a track that sounds consistently tight like that is not easy at all.

But to hear the originals were played slower and then sped up afterwards? That really does feel like a betrayal.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
But to hear the originals were played slower and then sped up afterwards? That really does feel like a betrayal.
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Im not certain I feel betrayed necessarily, but I do understand why someone would. I respect that point if view. I'm more relieved...I've been trying to figure out why some of the rhythm parts on the record sound the way they do. Even the tone itself has this overly tight, compact almost boxy smoothness to it that has never really been fully duplicated. I feel this eveal accounts for that to some degree.
 
angelspade said:
Im not certain I feel betrayed necessarily, but I do understand why someone would. I respect that point if view. I'm more relieved...I've been trying to figure out why some of the rhythm parts on the record sound the way they do. Even the tone itself has this overly tight, compact almost boxy smoothness to it that has never really been fully duplicated. I feel this eveal accounts for that to some degree.
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Yeah, maybe "betrayed" is kind of a strong word to use. It does make you think "oh come on man" though.

But like you say it's also kind of a relief for anybody who has tried to replicate that sound and not quite gotten there to learn it really wasn't due to their shortcomings or whatever. And I also get that they had an artistic vision they wanted to fulfill against a running clock, and I've always been the first to say you should do literally whatever it takes to get the listener's speakers to move how you want them to move and that there's no such thing as musical integrity because it's all aesthetic.

Still though, it kinda does tarnish Hetfield's hero status a bit to learn about the smoke and mirrors of it all.

Metallica: the original fake instagram guitar players, lol.

edit: then again it's not like we haven't all also seen video of Hetfield coked out of the galaxy playing live, downpicking at like 280 bpm like his hair was on fire haha.
 
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anomaly said:
Huh, Master Of Puppets was tracked a lot faster than that and Hetfield had like 6 rhythm tracks for each song. It wasn't till the black album that they started recording at such a slow pace... Over a year for that album.
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Only two takes and a thicker only on chugs. From Flemming. So 2.25 takes I’d call it. Each take had three mics on it though which is where the 6 number comes from. And back then had to manually phase align… what a nightmare. And why it sounds super phasey.

Some guys nowadays get real crazy with the mics and stuff because of what you can do on digital. I think Vogg recently had something like quad takes, so two left and two right, but each cab had 6 mics on them lol. 24 tracks total.
 
look who else was at that Coldplay show


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Just for an 'math intervention' exercise, if we accept the MOP bpm is commonly considered as being 212bpm, Whats the actual tempo difference between recording at 435 and the speeding up to 440?

What bpm did they record it at, and is that in reality a significant difference?

(I'm too low on caffeine to do the math rn)
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Yeah, maybe "betrayed" is kind of a strong word to use. It does make you think "oh come on man" though.



Still though, it kinda does tarnish Hetfield's hero status a bit to learn about the smoke and mirrors of it all.
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to me its strait betrayal lol. i understand an album is an "illusion" as i heard someone once put it, and as much as i hate the thought of editing or punching in i understand that it needs to be done if you want a major label quality pro release, but recording slow to speed up is just crossing a line lol
 
RaceU4her said:
to me its strait betrayal lol. i understand an album is an "illusion" as i heard someone once put it, and as much as i hate the thought of editing or punching in i understand that it needs to be done if you want a major label quality pro release, but recording slow to speed up is just crossing a line lol
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Please sit down. I’ve got some bad news for you. All the drums on the classic MEtallica albums were not one take performances either. I’ll give you a minute to compose yourself.
 
thegame said:
Please sit down. I’ve got some bad news for you. All the drums on the classic MEtallica albums were not one take performances either. I’ll give you a minute to compose yourself.
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ill never forget reading "we couldnt edit the drums anymore cause the tape wouldnt go through the machine" for the first time, then reading it over like five more times to make sure i wasnt seeing things :ROFLMAO:
 
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