2x12 Cabs don’t get enough credit

[7704A]

I've posted this numerous times before, but I think the 1x12 beats the 4x12 here:


Only special sauce really being a massively oversized cab and a giant front port.

Also @NowYou'rePlayingWithPower look into EVM's (12S is my preference) for that clean/edge of breakup stuff. That's my recommendation, but then I'm an EVM fan. Might also be able to find a Force 12 (the 12S' lower-powered little brother) for cheap on ebay or reverb. Possibly a Force 15 too. I haven't tried the Force (yet, stay tuned...) but from what I've been reading it's very closely related sound-wise, and people in a direct comparison have a hard time telling it apart from it's older brothers the 12L and 12S.

 

[Monkey Man]

I've posted this numerous times before, but I think the 1x12 beats the 4x12 here:

As I think has been stated, a mic'd single driver is always going to yield less phase cancellation / comb filtering than one mounted adjacent to others, all things being equal (type of mic, angle etc.).

That said, the "interference" and therefore cancellation from adjacent drivers would in-theory be greatest using an omni condenser, less-so for a cardioid condenser and less again in the case of a dynamic mic.

 

[7704A]

That said, the "interference" and therefore cancellation from adjacent drivers would in-theory be greatest using an omni condenser, less-so for a cardioid condenser and less again in the case of a dynamic mic.

Hmm... interesting....

As I think has been stated, a mic'd single driver is always going to yield less phase cancellation / comb filtering than one mounted adjacent to others, all things being equal (type of mic, angle etc.).

I suppose so. Doesn't mean I don't want a 4x12 equal to 4 of those oversized 1x12's though.

 

[Monkey Man]

Hmm... interesting....

Indeed.

It's not just the cancellations affecting the tone but also transit smearing - attack information arriving at the mic in staggered intervals depending upon the distance from and number of additional drivers.

IOW, less-articulate, punchy attack where multiple drivers are concerned.

IMHO.

 

[7704A]

Indeed.

It's not just the cancellations affecting the tone but also transit smearing - attack information arriving at the mic in staggered intervals depending upon the distance from and number of additional drivers.

IOW, less-articulate, punchy attack where multiple drivers are concerned.

IMHO.

Hmm.... You make a good case for one big driver....

 

[Monkey Man]

If transient accuracy and phase coherence are important to you then yeah, IMHO it's the way to go.

This really only becomes important when recording 'though I reckon, and even then, moreso when combining multiple guitar parts and also when trying to achieve better articulation / poke-through in mixes.

IMHO.

 

[Smash]

Aware, and I'm on board as much as anyone here.
I was just asking your thoughts because I know you have experience with a lot of different gear.
I don't have any tan pants or skirts, so I keep getting banned from tgp before I could ask.
Anyways, not really important, just throwing it out into the universe, I suppose.

Cleans and TGP references? You wash your mouth out with soap, little lady

 

[LPMojoGL]

The big bogner OS 2x12 is great. It’s not much smaller than a traditional 4x12 cab though

It's smaller enough, tho:

I typed this last Sunday about 2x12s:
"Absolutely.
1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 all have their own sound.
I have an open back 1x12, 2 1x12 combos, 2 4x12s, a 2x12 and a 2x12 combo.

An open back 1x12 is good to play out in smaller spaces with. It's light, easy to transport, takes up less space, an easier fit on a little stage or friend's music room, and sounds great with some volume.
4x12s sound big, less mids, more lows and highs, and are fantastic if you can crank an amp.
2x12 is my fav for house-friendly volumes and recording. It sounds bigger and more open than a 1x12, tighter and more punchy in the mids than a 4x12.
I've had around 10 2x12s. I prefer the Bogner OS212, loaded with a V30/H75 mix.
It would probably be the keeper if I could have only 1 cab. Although it would hard to let my Marshall 4x12 loaded with GBs go."

 

[mooncobra]

2x12’s rule. I have a couple
Bogner 2x12’s, one with creamback and v30, and another with v30 and scumback. They sound tight and defined. Very happy with how my amps sound through them.

I also have an early 80s Marshall 4x12 with g12-65s that sounds great also. I am down to 3 cabs. But, I always plug into a Bogner 2x12 first.

I heard an avatar 2x12 that’s a copy of the Bogner I believe with a greenback and v30 that sounded really, really good.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

Cleans and TGP references? You wash your mouth out with soap, little lady

Piano to fortississimo

 

[DanTravis62]

Also @NowYou'rePlayingWithPower look into EVM's (12S is my preference) for that clean/edge of breakup stuff. That's my recommendation, but then I'm an EVM fan. .

@NowYou'rePlayingWithPower I'm a recent convert to the 12L 12S thing as well

It's absolutely the top tier, no questions asked BEST modern speaker for cleans and edge of breakup, and sounds quite good for high gain too, though not as good as a v30 or creambacks/greenback/black back for high gain imo.

Vintage fanes, Jensen, and JBL speakers might be preferable to some certainly, but for currently built stuff there's nothing like it

It's so versatile you can use it with any amp imaginable and it will at the bare minimum be good to great for any genre

 

[7704A]

@NowYou'rePlayingWithPower I'm a recent convert to the 12L 12S thing as well

It's absolutely the top tier, no questions asked BEST modern speaker for cleans and edge of breakup, and sounds quite good for high gain too, though not as good as a v30 or creambacks/greenback/black back for high gain imo.

Vintage fanes, Jensen, and JBL speakers might be preferable to some certainly, but for currently built stuff there's nothing like it

It's so versatile you can use it with any amp imaginable and it will at the bare minimum be good to great for any genre

Addendum to Dan's post: the 12L is currently in production, the 12S isn't. Unfortunate, as I think the 12S sounds awesome.

 

[7704A]

@NowYou'rePlayingWithPower relevant tan-flavored video:

 

[Greazygeo]

Switched to 2-12 cabs many years ago. Still have 4-12’s but never take them. Much easier to hear two 2-12’s vs 1 4-12.

 

[7704A]

Switched to 2-12 cabs many years ago. Still have 4-12’s but never take them. Much easier to hear two 2-12’s vs 1 4-12.

Are you spacing them out across the stage and that's why it's easier to hear? Or do you have them together and it's still easier? I've done basically the former with 1x12's similar in spirit to the ones in the 4x12 vs 1x12 video I posted, and really liked the results too in terms of hearing myself. Added a 3rd 1x12 working as a floor monitor, and had the best stage sound I've experienced yet.

 

[Greazygeo]

Are you spacing them out across the stage and that's why it's easier to hear? Or do you have them together and it's still easier? I've done basically the former with 1x12's similar in spirit to the ones in the 4x12 vs 1x12 video I posted, and really liked the results too in terms of hearing myself. Added a 3rd 1x12 working as a floor monitor, and had the best stage sound I've experienced yet.

No I just stack them on top of each other normally. The are both semi open back, so they fill the room more instead of being so directional like a closed back cab. Also easier for bandmates to hear me.

 

[jabps]

It's smaller enough, tho:

View attachment 348689

I typed this last Sunday about 2x12s:
"Absolutely.
1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 all have their own sound.
I have an open back 1x12, 2 1x12 combos, 2 4x12s, a 2x12 and a 2x12 combo.

An open back 1x12 is good to play out in smaller spaces with. It's light, easy to transport, takes up less space, an easier fit on a little stage or friend's music room, and sounds great with some volume.
4x12s sound big, less mids, more lows and highs, and are fantastic if you can crank an amp.
2x12 is my fav for house-friendly volumes and recording. It sounds bigger and more open than a 1x12, tighter and more punchy in the mids than a 4x12.
I've had around 10 2x12s. I prefer the Bogner OS212, loaded with a V30/H75 mix.
It would probably be the keeper if I could have only 1 cab. Although it would hard to let my Marshall 4x12 loaded with GBs go."

Yep really come to like my Bogner 2x12, just wished the damn thing had a black grill. I've never been a fan of the cane grill but I really don't want to mess with it at this point. I'm down to 3 cabs - my old Marshall 4x12, Bogner 2x12 and my old WEM 2x12 that's in storage.

 

[rstites]

I have several of the old Mesa vertical 2x12s around and love them. I have two with the open back on top and the third is closed back. They're wide enough to put a number of my guitar heads on too, though the first two are with my (very much in progress) rack system. They sound great, and while they're only 6" narrower than my Marshall 4x12s, that space is appreciated.

I also still have my Marshall 4x12s around. Sound great too. The 4x12s are definitely more beamy, and the 2x12s actually have better horizontal dispersion on/off the stage, so that's a bonus for the 2x12s. If mic'd and through the PA, none of that matters, of course.

While I love my 4x12s, it's funny how those have become such a staple, when their entire historical reason for existing was getting enough power handling for early Marshall amps (15W speakers for the 45/50W amps of the time). Now, I can easily run 100W heads safely through a couple of speakers, and even one with my EV's. That has nothing to do with sound, but more the other way around. We've come to associate the preferred sound with what was just a basic engineering choice in the early days. lol

 

[Smash]

I have several of the old Mesa vertical 2x12s around and love them. I have two with the open back on top and the third is closed back. They're wide enough to put a number of my guitar heads on too, though the first two are with my (very much in progress) rack system. They sound great, and while they're only 6" narrower than my Marshall 4x12s, that space is appreciated.

I also still have my Marshall 4x12s around. Sound great too. The 4x12s are definitely more beamy, and the 2x12s actually have better horizontal dispersion on/off the stage, so that's a bonus for the 2x12s. If mic'd and through the PA, none of that matters, of course.

While I love my 4x12s, it's funny how those have become such a staple, when their entire historical reason for existing was getting enough power handling for early Marshall amps (15W speakers for the 45/50W amps of the time). Now, I can easily run 100W heads safely through a couple of speakers, and even one with my EV's. That has nothing to do with sound, but more the other way around. We've come to associate the preferred sound with what was just a basic engineering choice in the early days. lol

The whole reason we found distortion was turning up amps. I dont think accidents or outdated concepts ( low wattage speakers or tubes) invalidate the results.

 

[rstites]

The whole reason we found distortion was turning up amps. I dont think accidents or outdated concepts ( low wattage speakers or tubes) invalidate the results.

Of course not. I'm just musing on how we got here.