4x12 : series/parallel or parallel/series

[Nigel]

I need to get a new battery for my power screw driver ..... so this may not happen real soon. The car and a few other things well be fixed first. I have no intentions of doing three cabinets without a power screw driver. I well post when it is done.

I am switching around speakers in both 4x12's and my 2x12. I am adding Mitchell Donuts to all three cabs. The cabs are different. One is a Marshall slant about 20 years old. The other is a Peavey strait about 25 years old. The Peavey sounds a lot like the old Marshall cabs .... but I like it's sound better than any Marshall I have heard. At this point I think both cabinets well have the same speakers in them.

This link may be interesting to you .... Hunters clips are here ...

http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewt ... p?p=657215

the mitchell donuts are awesome, just be sure to use the recommended foam, the density is important to the frequency delay.

He recommends the McMaster 3/4" firmness 4. That's what I've got, and it works great.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I need to get a new battery for my power screw driver ..... so this may not happen real soon. The car and a few other things well be fixed first. I have no intentions of doing three cabinets without a power screw driver. I well post when it is done.

I am switching around speakers in both 4x12's and my 2x12. I am adding Mitchell Donuts to all three cabs. The cabs are different. One is a Marshall slant about 20 years old. The other is a Peavey strait about 25 years old. The Peavey sounds a lot like the old Marshall cabs .... but I like it's sound better than any Marshall I have heard. At this point I think both cabinets well have the same speakers in them.

This link may be interesting to you .... Hunters clips are here ...

http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewt ... p?p=657215

yup!
http://www.mcmaster.com/#85735k72/=82nwrq

the mitchell donuts are awesome, just be sure to use the recommended foam, the density is important to the frequency delay.

He recommends the McMaster 3/4" firmness 4. That's what I've got, and it works great.

 

[Sixtonoize]

... I am adding Mitchell Donuts to all three cabs. ...

the mitchell donuts are awesome, just be sure to use the recommended foam, the density is important to the frequency delay.

What are these Mitchell Donuts you speak of?
I Google'd it, but all I found were donuts in the literal (and delicious) sense.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

... I am adding Mitchell Donuts to all three cabs. ...

the mitchell donuts are awesome, just be sure to use the recommended foam, the density is important to the frequency delay.

What are these Mitchell Donuts you speak of?
I Google'd it, but all I found were donuts in the literal (and delicious) sense.

http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?page_id=424

 

[Sixtonoize]

Very cool, man.
Thanks for the link. :thu:

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Very cool, man.
Thanks for the link. :thu:

no prob

 

[jet66]

What if you are running two pairs of different speakers, say Vintage 30's and G12H30's? Or two pairs with different sensitivities? What are the pros and cons, ins and outs, of these scenarios in regards to parallel/series and vice versa?

 

[Nigel]

What if you are running two pairs of different speakers, say Vintage 30's and G12H30's? Or two pairs with different sensitivities? What are the pros and cons, ins and outs, of these scenarios in regards to parallel/series and vice versa?

Run the G12H30's in series, the V30's in series, and parallel the pairs. If that sounds like poo, do it the other way.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

What if you are running two pairs of different speakers, say Vintage 30's and G12H30's? Or two pairs with different sensitivities? What are the pros and cons, ins and outs, of these scenarios in regards to parallel/series and vice versa?

The speakers only know what ohms they are, and how they react to different wiring... or in other words, no one else can tell you all the ramifications of doing this via words. It's going to be something you have to try for yourself to be sure what works for you.

 

[~Abstract~]

Has anyone tried this? I posted it in another thread, though I've never built it. I trust the designer...but I wouldn't switch under load.

 

[jet66]

Run the G12H30's in series, the V30's in series, and parallel the pairs. If that sounds like poo, do it the other way.

The speakers only know what ohms they are, and how they react to different wiring... or in other words, no one else can tell you all the ramifications of doing this via words. It's going to be something you have to try for yourself to be sure what works for you.

I had them in paralleled pairs to separate jacks, so I could get 8 ohm stereo and 16 ohm mono with a series box. Then I ended up paralleling them on a simple on/off switch so I could go 8 ohm stereo, 4 ohm mono, with no series box. I don't use a stereo amp any more (it was more about using both sides vs. any stereo spread) so I am going to rewire the cab to straight-up mono. I am all for experimenting, I just wanted to make sure there weren't any configurations that were going to be a bad idea before I bothered with them. Thanks for the input!

Has anyone tried this? I posted it in another thread, though I've never built it. I trust the designer...but I wouldn't switch under load.

(Image)

As a matter of fact, I have that kind of switch mounted on my jack plate. I think I shall try it and let you know how it goes. I will try and get to it tonight, but it may be the weekend before I get a chance.

 

[TheMagicEight]

Awesome thread! Will definitely be changing my Bogner to Series-Parallel once I order more Scumbacks!

I thought I read that bogner cabs were already wired up this way some where... can't recall I've been reading a lot of threads lately!

Not unless mine is unique from the factory. Mine looks like this inside, and it makes sense as I've always thought it was a little darker than I'd prefer:

 

[stephen sawall]

I was one of the first ones to try the Mitchell donuts, I am just doing the rest of the cabs and using the McMaster foam. I liked the sound of the 1/2 inch, 4 firm better myself.

 

[jet66]

Has anyone tried this? I posted it in another thread, though I've never built it. I trust the designer...but I wouldn't switch under load.

(Image)

I tried it. Verdict, using two Veteran 30's on the bottom and two ET-65's on top: Not a huge difference, barely even perceptible. I didn't try mixing up the speaker combo, so maybe another configuration would have had a different outcome. I even had my son doing the switching, so I never knew what configuration it was in. One did sound slightly 'better' on the clean channel, but that was even a preference call. One was brighter/brasher, the other smoother/darker. Again, it wasn't 'OMG this is awesome,' nor 'WTF?' they were just a little different, and both usable.

I DID notice a huge difference wiring it in the Series/Parallel config as shown in the 'Marshall Series/Parallel' drawing, with like speakers in series with each other, vs. my 'all-parallel' config. S/P was much more present/seemingly louder, with a little more bite. I don't know if that is more from series/parallel vs. parallel, or 16 Ohm load vs. 4 Ohm load, or some combo of the two, but that made the biggest difference in this case. And series/parallel is how it is staying.

I have done these speakers in an X pattern, both s/p and p/s, neither sounded as good as ET-65 on top, Vet30 on bottom, all-parallel. I have a pair of Vintage 30's and G12H30's, but any experimentation with them will have to come later, if at all. I definitely like the Warehouse speakers over these Celestions, but if I ever find a decent empty cab on the cheap, I'll be experimenting for sure.

 

[stephen sawall]

I also like top/bottom better than X pattern. The speaker with more bass on the bottom.

 

[TheMagicEight]

Depending on the speakers used, you can get more bass/low mids from the series at jack/ parallel at speakers wiring...which is this.

But more commonly this wiring, parallel at jack, series at the speakers was what was used in MOST of the 60-70 old cabs I bought. In fact I never bought one that didn't have this wiring, but I did see others who had the above wiring in theirs, so I know it happened, just not as often as this wiring setup below (and the same as in that picture you referenced).

I drew this wiring diagram out to make it idiot proof (which I needed! LOL).

Which wiring system works better for your tone is purely what your ears tell you. For G12M/M75's, the top wiring setup has a touch more lows/low mids, whereas the bottom wiring setup adds more mids for the G12H30/H75/H55 type speakers.

What you like, of course, is purely subjective. If I was doing vintage tones, I'd go with the bottom wiring diagram, but if I want a bit heavier/more in your face tones, I would probably go with the top wiring diagram. In the end, what sounds good to you is good. Try the both, it's only $8 worth of wire.

Upon further review, I've noticed that these are written the same way in a schematic. The wiring is identical. Speaker placement is different, which may be the difference everyone claims to hear (I think I hear it myself), but on a recording there should be no difference.

Before you flame me, please look closely at these diagrams.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

TME, electrically they're both 16 ohms, but it's wired in parallel with four wires at the jack (two per lug), and series at the speakers. The top wiring is series at the jack/parallel at the speakers.

 

[hunter]

They do both sound and feel different. I recommend everyone who has the possibility to add a simple On/Off switch to their cab, to try the schematic in my post. Just make the white cable switchable and there you have it. Great little trick to get more out of your gear.

 

[TheMagicEight]

This is what I mean (please excuse the rough sketches

They do both sound and feel different. I recommend everyone who has the possibility to add a simple On/Off switch to their cab, to try the schematic in my post. Just make the white cable switchable and there you have it. Great little trick to get more out of your gear.

That's a definite difference in wiring, but the other two are identical. By the way, do you prefer the switch on or off?

 

[steve_k]

Depending on the speakers used, you can get more bass/low mids from the series at jack/ parallel at speakers wiring...which is this.

But more commonly this wiring, parallel at jack, series at the speakers was what was used in MOST of the 60-70 old cabs I bought. In fact I never bought one that didn't have this wiring, but I did see others who had the above wiring in theirs, so I know it happened, just not as often as this wiring setup below (and the same as in that picture you referenced).

I drew this wiring diagram out to make it idiot proof (which I needed! LOL).

Which wiring system works better for your tone is purely what your ears tell you. For G12M/M75's, the top wiring setup has a touch more lows/low mids, whereas the bottom wiring setup adds more mids for the G12H30/H75/H55 type speakers.

What you like, of course, is purely subjective. If I was doing vintage tones, I'd go with the bottom wiring diagram, but if I want a bit heavier/more in your face tones, I would probably go with the top wiring diagram. In the end, what sounds good to you is good. Try the both, it's only $8 worth of wire.

I always wire mine up as in the top schematic. Parallel at the speakers. Less wire, less friction loss between speaker and jack. All of my Mills and Mesa's, first thing I do is snatch the wiring out and rewire to this spec and change out the thrifty jacks. Straight in, single input, single impedance. Mills uses extension wiring and Mesa has the stereo monitor wiring and out it goes. I bought a bunch of jack plates from Parts Express and some good Cliffs jacks and Neutrik locking jacks. Being the pet coon I am, it makes speaker changes and testing a snap.

One change I do make to the top schematic is with an X pattern speaker spread, I X the parallel wires and parallel between like speakers instead of different speakers. Not too sure if it makes a difference, but I do it that way.

Steve