5150 combo tone (??)

[nevusofota]

I have the opportunity to purchase a 5150 combo. I have had it in my possession now for a few weeks. Yesterday I put it through its paces but I didn't like the sound. The distortion has a very pronounced sizzle to it. I've heard people describing the distortion in other amps as "bees in a jar" and now I know what they mean. I tried eq'ing it out but couldn't. I even changed all the preamp tubes. I put in Electro-Harmonix 12AX7's with Sovtek 12AX7WC's and LP's (same as what is in my 5150 III). All in different combinations. The tone changed slightly but the sizzle remained constant. I didn't try changing the power tubes because I am pretty sure they are OEM Sovtek 6L6WXT's and they power on quickly w/out any audible cracks or pops. One speaker is original and the other is a Carvin GS12-75-8. Channel one's clean sounds great, but the lead channel doesn't sound good. Is this an inherent sonic characteristic of this amp or is something wrong with it? Maybe it's just not my thing? I really wanted to like it because I would love to have a combo for small quick gigs and practice. I have heard such great things about the combo. I have an EVH 5150 III and am very satisfied with the sound. The distortion is much smoother than the combo. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tawlks]

Many say it's better than the head. The fizz is just part of the tone. Most 5150 users either like it/don't mind it or don't realise it's there and go for br000tz.

It doesn't bother me (5150 II head) beacuse I run the gain and presence fairly low, that helps. Also, speakers will help, try it through a V30 cab.

 

[nevusofota]

Many say it's better than the head. The fizz is just part of the tone. Most 5150 users either like it/don't mind it or don't realise it's there and go for br000tz.

It doesn't bother me (5150 II head) beacuse I run the gain and presence fairly low, that helps. Also, speakers will help, try it through a V30 cab.

Yeah, thats what I've heard, that's why I just don't get it. Are the people saying that into hard core and thrash and like that edgy cutting high end? Or, is this particular amp just shot?

Good idea, I was thinking of putting the V30's from my Mesa in it.

 

[Tawlks]

Many say it's better than the head. The fizz is just part of the tone. Most 5150 users either like it/don't mind it or don't realise it's there and go for br000tz.

It doesn't bother me (5150 II head) beacuse I run the gain and presence fairly low, that helps. Also, speakers will help, try it through a V30 cab.

Yeah, thats what I've heard, that's why I just don't get it. Are the people saying that into hard core and thrash and like that edgy cutting high end? Or, is this particular amp just shot?

Good idea, I was thinking of putting the V30's from my Mesa in it.

The 5150 is a very bright amp with alot of high end that can get harsh, darker voiced valves can help this, I've heard especially in the power amp, that's why JJs are so popular with 5150 owners, they're cheap as shit too.

I couldn't say, it's really a universal consensus about the tone. Alot of the 5150 owners, often the ones with shit, raspy tone are hardcore/metalcore players. No offence to you, might just not be the right tone for you.

What kinda stuff are you playing with it? Boosting it, especially on the rhythm channel helps smooth it out, if you have a V30 cab, try that.

 

[FourT6and2]

More mids, less gain, less treble, less presence = less fizz.

 

[nevusofota]

More mids, less gain, less treble, less presence = less fizz.

I wish it was that easy. The mid control on this amp is very odd, the more I crank the mid the worse the fizz.

 

[nevusofota]

Many say it's better than the head. The fizz is just part of the tone. Most 5150 users either like it/don't mind it or don't realise it's there and go for br000tz.

It doesn't bother me (5150 II head) beacuse I run the gain and presence fairly low, that helps. Also, speakers will help, try it through a V30 cab.

Yeah, thats what I've heard, that's why I just don't get it. Are the people saying that into hard core and thrash and like that edgy cutting high end? Or, is this particular amp just shot?

Good idea, I was thinking of putting the V30's from my Mesa in it.

The 5150 is a very bright amp with alot of high end that can get harsh, darker voiced valves can help this, I've heard especially in the power amp, that's why JJs are so popular with 5150 owners, they're cheap as shit too.

I couldn't say, it's really a universal consensus about the tone. Alot of the 5150 owners, often the ones with shit, raspy tone are hardcore/metalcore players. No offence to you, might just not be the right tone for you.

What kinda stuff are you playing with it? Boosting it, especially on the rhythm channel helps smooth it out, if you have a V30 cab, try that.

I agree, we are thinking along the same lines. When I get home tonight I am going to try and boost the lead channel (with decreased pre/gain on the amp) with both a Fulldrive 2 and a SD pickup booster. I don't want to take the Maxon OD-9 out of my rack just yet.

I may try the JJ's also.

I play mostly progressive type rock in my band ( www.myspace.com/orphanproject ) and play 80's shred type rock at home (Satriani style). I have played many amps over the years and have found the 5150 III fits the bill perfectly.

 

[glassjaw7]

I wouldn't buy it if you don't like the tone. Sounds like you tried eq'ing and tube swaps and still aren't happy.

 

[mrp5150]

I don't think the 5150 2x12 combo sounds nearly as good as the head. I did just notice that Peavey came out with a 6505 1x12 combo. I'd be interested in trying that to see how it compares.

 

[Tawlks]

Many say it's better than the head. The fizz is just part of the tone. Most 5150 users either like it/don't mind it or don't realise it's there and go for br000tz.

It doesn't bother me (5150 II head) beacuse I run the gain and presence fairly low, that helps. Also, speakers will help, try it through a V30 cab.

Yeah, thats what I've heard, that's why I just don't get it. Are the people saying that into hard core and thrash and like that edgy cutting high end? Or, is this particular amp just shot?

Good idea, I was thinking of putting the V30's from my Mesa in it.

The 5150 is a very bright amp with alot of high end that can get harsh, darker voiced valves can help this, I've heard especially in the power amp, that's why JJs are so popular with 5150 owners, they're cheap as shit too.

I couldn't say, it's really a universal consensus about the tone. Alot of the 5150 owners, often the ones with shit, raspy tone are hardcore/metalcore players. No offence to you, might just not be the right tone for you.

What kinda stuff are you playing with it? Boosting it, especially on the rhythm channel helps smooth it out, if you have a V30 cab, try that.

I agree, we are thinking along the same lines. When I get home tonight I am going to try and boost the lead channel (with decreased pre/gain on the amp) with both a Fulldrive 2 and a SD pickup booster. I don't want to take the Maxon OD-9 out of my rack just yet.

I may try the JJ's also.

I play mostly progressive type rock in my band ( https://www.myspace.com/orphanproject ) and play 80's shred type rock at home (Satriani style). I have played many amps over the years and have found the 5150 III fits the bill perfectly.

If the 5150 III fits your style well then you should be doing well, aslong as you can find a setup for your combo that works for you. Hmm.. lower the presence and highs, boost mids, like the poster above stated.

What's your pregain at usually? Mine's on 5-6 usually, unboosted. A good friend of mine uses a 6505 halfstack with really low gain and a boost with some gain added there. Play around, the Maxon boost is great with 5150s.

Do try the JJs if you have some lying around, although it's £25 or something for a mathched pair, in the UK. Really do try cabinets, try the cab you use with your 5150 III. I'm not suggesting use an extension cab, but try and work out what it is that's making your tone fizzy, that way you can single it out and fix it.

 

[bsp01]

The fizz tends to go away when the amp is at it's sweet spot volume-wise. In other words, when it's ridiculously loud. It is fizzy at lower volumes, and high volumes, but less so when the power amp is cranked.

 

[droptrd]

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt that fizz/fuzz a product of the cold bias and crossover distortion? So if thats true, then wouldnt a bias mod fix the problem? I may be way off the mark on this

 

[nevusofota]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I did notice that the fizz mellowed out somewhat with increased volume but I couldn't crank it too loud because it was late and the neighbors wouldn't have been happy.

 

[nevusofota]

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt that fizz/fuzz a product of the cold bias and crossover distortion? So if thats true, then wouldnt a bias mod fix the problem? I may be way off the mark on this

Possibly, but I thing my 5150III is cold biased and doesn't seem to have the same issue. Definitely something to think about though.

 

[nevusofota]

Many say it's better than the head. The fizz is just part of the tone. Most 5150 users either like it/don't mind it or don't realise it's there and go for br000tz.

It doesn't bother me (5150 II head) beacuse I run the gain and presence fairly low, that helps. Also, speakers will help, try it through a V30 cab.

Yeah, thats what I've heard, that's why I just don't get it. Are the people saying that into hard core and thrash and like that edgy cutting high end? Or, is this particular amp just shot?

Good idea, I was thinking of putting the V30's from my Mesa in it.

The 5150 is a very bright amp with alot of high end that can get harsh, darker voiced valves can help this, I've heard especially in the power amp, that's why JJs are so popular with 5150 owners, they're cheap as shit too.

I couldn't say, it's really a universal consensus about the tone. Alot of the 5150 owners, often the ones with shit, raspy tone are hardcore/metalcore players. No offence to you, might just not be the right tone for you.

What kinda stuff are you playing with it? Boosting it, especially on the rhythm channel helps smooth it out, if you have a V30 cab, try that.

I agree, we are thinking along the same lines. When I get home tonight I am going to try and boost the lead channel (with decreased pre/gain on the amp) with both a Fulldrive 2 and a SD pickup booster. I don't want to take the Maxon OD-9 out of my rack just yet.

I may try the JJ's also.

I play mostly progressive type rock in my band ( https://www.myspace.com/orphanproject ) and play 80's shred type rock at home (Satriani style). I have played many amps over the years and have found the 5150 III fits the bill perfectly.

If the 5150 III fits your style well then you should be doing well, aslong as you can find a setup for your combo that works for you. Hmm.. lower the presence and highs, boost mids, like the poster above stated.

What's your pregain at usually? Mine's on 5-6 usually, unboosted. A good friend of mine uses a 6505 halfstack with really low gain and a boost with some gain added there. Play around, the Maxon boost is great with 5150s.

Do try the JJs if you have some lying around, although it's £25 or something for a mathched pair, in the UK. Really do try cabinets, try the cab you use with your 5150 III. I'm not suggesting use an extension cab, but try and work out what it is that's making your tone fizzy, that way you can single it out and fix it.

I've tried the pregain at many different settings and the fizz was there but became much less noticable at about 3, but the saturation and harmonics aren't there at this low of a setting. I'm am looking forward to boosting channel 2.

 

[Dig]

I recently sold my 5150 combo to somone in the D.C. metro area for most of the same reasons you've described. It is exceptional at some things. I love the closed back design. I never had a combo with as much punch as the 5150. I liked the clean channel. There were a few times that I was somehow able to get the sound I wanted from the lead channel, but it seemed like a fluke. There was so much constant tweeking required with pre/post gain, presence, resonance, eq, etc, and it never resulted in my satisfaction. There was just too much compromise. It's a shame too. I really wanted to like it. The thing is well built and will probably last for decades. It looks cool, and it does a few things exceptionally well, but there was just too much compromise. I really don't want to HAVE TO tweek an amp all day long. I want to play guitar. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Shask]

That sounds normal to me. You either like it or not, and it sounds like you don't.

Most people that describe it as "bees" just don't like aggressive sounds. They should just quit complaining, and go play something smoother and not as extreme

I will say, while you have it, try the crunch channel with the gain about 6, and then hit it with a boost. That is what many people do. It is less sizzl-y and has more of a lower mid punch that way. (On the head anyways). The lead channel is more scooped, and sizzl-y.

I keep the treble, mids, and presence all pretty low on mine. But, I also like darker, bassy sounds....

 

[Tawlks]

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt that fizz/fuzz a product of the cold bias and crossover distortion? So if thats true, then wouldnt a bias mod fix the problem? I may be way off the mark on this

It can be, I had forgot about this. 5150s are biased pretty cold, and if it's an old one, might wanna get it jacked up. It's not hard to check for crossover distortion.

 

[Tawlks]

That sounds normal to me. You either like it or not, and it sounds like you don't.

Most people that describe it as "bees" just don't like aggressive sounds. They should just quit complaining, and go play something smoother and not as extreme

I will say, while you have it, try the crunch channel with the gain about 6, and then hit it with a boost. That is what many people do. It is less sizzl-y and has more of a lower mid punch that way. (On the head anyways). The lead channel is more scooped, and sizzl-y.

I keep the treble, mids, and presence all pretty low on mine. But, I also like darker, bassy sounds....

I was hoping you'd show up. Good tips here.

 

[Shask]

That sounds normal to me. You either like it or not, and it sounds like you don't.

Most people that describe it as "bees" just don't like aggressive sounds. They should just quit complaining, and go play something smoother and not as extreme

I will say, while you have it, try the crunch channel with the gain about 6, and then hit it with a boost. That is what many people do. It is less sizzl-y and has more of a lower mid punch that way. (On the head anyways). The lead channel is more scooped, and sizzl-y.

I keep the treble, mids, and presence all pretty low on mine. But, I also like darker, bassy sounds....

I was hoping you'd show up. Good tips here.

I dont know if I am a good example

The basic fact, is that the 5150 shares a main design idea as the Recto, SLO, Framus Cobra, etc... (See the Symmetrical/Asymmetrical thread on this page). It has a cold clipping stage, which is kind of like a tube "diode clipper" like you hear about with Marshalls. This makes it have a buzzier, fuzzier, fizzier, etc.. what ever word you want to give it base sound. Then, the 5150 is middy to begin with, and when you mix those 2, it can get harsh at higher settings of the controls.

This is something you like in a design, or not. It is not known for giving warm, smooth, singing sounds. It gives off a more modern, saturated, aggressive sound.

I still say though, try the crunch channel with mid gain, with a smoother Tubescreamer type boost, and treble and presence below 5. If you still don't like this sound, then try something else. These are not for everyone.