A MESSAGE TO ALL AMPLIFIER BUILDERS: PLEASE READ

[sixstrings]

Actually, you went one step further than that and said no manufacturer other than Krank has good clips on their site. You would be better suited to refrain from making derogatory statements about others (it was indeed inferred), and simply let your work speak for itself.

This statement is true. I have an opinion, so do you. There is a difference. In this case, I value mine more than yours. For every amp I've ever wanted to purchase, I checked the amplifier manufacturer's website for clips. None of them sounded like the amps I played. Boogie is doing a good job now, but it still doesn't sound like a well recorded rectifier!

Some have youtube videos or decent quality videos, but forget about my opinion, it is FACT some people are better and recording amplifiers than others. I don't need to name anyone. It's obvious when you hear someone's recording and you hear wooy bass on the guitars, that overwhelm the bass. Or when the high-frequency content of the amplifier creates a shround over the higher register of cymbals.

I'm done with you, Bob. Thanks for your gratuitous advice.

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

 

[Bob Savage]

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

You know, when you were sending your PM's to me about how tough you are and stuff, you indicated that you weren't the one starting things up on the forum with me. So, what's the problem? Have you not noticed that I've ignored you?

Please, just shut up.

 

[sixstrings]

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

You know, when you were sending your PM's to me about how tough you are and stuff, you indicated that you weren't the one starting things up on the forum with me. So, what's the problem? Have you not noticed that I've ignored you?

Please, just shut up.

Well Bob I just don't like it when people act all high-and-mighty. If you were just being cool then I would have ignored you. Fortunately for me Bob, this is still a free country and I have as much right as anyone to post my thoughts.

 

[Gainzilla]

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

You know, when you were sending your PM's to me about how tough you are and stuff, you indicated that you weren't the one starting things up on the forum with me. So, what's the problem? Have you not noticed that I've ignored you?

Please, just shut up.

Quoted for truth Now fly to my dojang and spar with me you big armchair warrior poo poo head!!!

 

[glip22]

 

[Bob Savage]

Well Bob I just don't like it when people act all high-and-mighty. If you were just being cool then I would have ignored you. Fortunately for me Bob, this is still a free country and I have as much right as anyone to post my thoughts.

Oh yes, I see, it's my fault. Well done.

Sure, you're welcome to say whatever you like, just keep it on the forums. I have no desire to receive any PM's about how you'd whip me in a fight, or competition, or sparring match, or thumb wrestling.

If you start it here, leave it here, and don't start crying about how it should be dealt with privately.

 

[Gainzilla]

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

You know, when you were sending your PM's to me about how tough you are and stuff, you indicated that you weren't the one starting things up on the forum with me. So, what's the problem? Have you not noticed that I've ignored you?

Please, just shut up.

Well Bob I just don't like it when people act all high-and-mighty. If you were just being cool then I would have ignored you. Fortunately for me Bob, this is still a free country and I have as much right as anyone to post my thoughts.

wow dude, as usual, your reading comprehension is selective at best and your obvious bias is rather predictable..

As for this thread, Have at it, Im going to sit back and enjoy. I think Lolzgreg is a good dude who may be misinterpreting some feedback here and being a little over sensitive but thats just me

 

[lolzgreg]

This statement is true. I have an opinion, so do you. There is a difference. In this case, I value mine more than yours.

I believe this statement says it all. You have no idea about the concept of "business."

I suppose this statement would apply to you in the exact same fashion, because you disagree. How about we stop talking in circles. If you have something to say to me, please, P.M. it to me.

 

[Giga]

wooly bass on the guitars, that overwhelm the bass. Or when the high-frequency content of the amplifier creates a shroud over the higher register of cymbals.

What if that is how the amp in question actually sounds or is dialed in for whatever reason (maybe the preference of someone involved in the recording process?), would your editing to hide that woolliness still be a "better" recording ?

Giga

 

[Bob Savage]

I suppose this statement would apply to you in the exact same fashion, because you disagree. How about we stop talking in circles. If you have something to say to me, please, P.M. it to me.

I thought you were done with me? And no thanks on the PM offer. If I've got something to say, I'll say it here, but thank you for the kind offer.

 

[sixstrings]

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

You know, when you were sending your PM's to me about how tough you are and stuff, you indicated that you weren't the one starting things up on the forum with me. So, what's the problem? Have you not noticed that I've ignored you?

Please, just shut up.

Well Bob I just don't like it when people act all high-and-mighty. If you were just being cool then I would have ignored you. Fortunately for me Bob, this is still a free country and I have as much right as anyone to post my thoughts.

wow dude, as usual, your reading comprehension is selective at best and your obvious bias is rather predictable..

As for this thread, Have at it, Im going to sit back and enjoy. I think Lolzgreg is a good dude who may be misinterpreting some feedback here and being a little over sensitive but thats just me

Wow! I never fails that every time Bob and I have an exchange, you pop up defending him. If you're going to "sit back and enjoy," then don't prefix it with a chickensit jab at me. Here's a fresh idea for you dude - let the 'grown man' Bob Savage fight his own battles. If he's going to be a dick, then I'll call him out like I would anyone else. There's nothing selective or biased about it. Predictable is you stepping in on Bob's behalf whenever we get into an exchange. Nice try.

 

[lolzgreg]

Also, to CLARIFY for the people that are gift-wrapping my words as sarcastic/arrogant/whatever:

This thread is about amp builders/equipment manufacturers.

AFAIK, no one has made an offer like this, open to any gear builder who is willing to cover shipping charges, to have free clips of their amps made.

Also, it will be a learning experience FOR ME. I will get to hear different amplifier manufacturers. I will know what gear I want for MY studio.

It will be a learning experience FOR ANYONE here. If ONE STUDIO/ENGINEER makes recordings of a plethora of amps, all in the same room, all with the same gear, and a relatively small amount of players, THE DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS OF THOSE AMPLIFIERS will be apparent when heard in the recordings done of them, and it will help prospective buyers and engineers alike when it comes time to choose the right amplifier to buy. This will in the end lead to more satisfied customers and more accurately represented amplifiers, since I think I have the ability to capture the best of what a guitar amp has to offer.

Does everyone understand?

I'm not trying to stir up any trouble. I'm trying to be ambitious. I want to learn, and combining what knowledge I have in tandem with the availability of some awesome gear, will be an awesome experience.

I'm sorry if some people here aren't getting it. All I can say is, SOME people/manufacturers have confidence that I will perform this task to the best of my ability. You know who you are Thank you.

 

[Gainzilla]

Hey man, Bob Savage is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you don't value his opinion then you're doomed! Visit his website and maybe you'll learn something from the master.

You know, when you were sending your PM's to me about how tough you are and stuff, you indicated that you weren't the one starting things up on the forum with me. So, what's the problem? Have you not noticed that I've ignored you?

Please, just shut up.

Well Bob I just don't like it when people act all high-and-mighty. If you were just being cool then I would have ignored you. Fortunately for me Bob, this is still a free country and I have as much right as anyone to post my thoughts.

wow dude, as usual, your reading comprehension is selective at best and your obvious bias is rather predictable..

As for this thread, Have at it, Im going to sit back and enjoy. I think Lolzgreg is a good dude who may be misinterpreting some feedback here and being a little over sensitive but thats just me

Wow! I never fails that every time Bob and I have an exchange, you pop up defending him. If you're going to "sit back and enjoy," then don't prefix it with a chickensit jab at me. Here's a fresh idea for you dude - let the 'grown man' Bob Savage fight his own battles. If he's going to be a dick, then I'll call him out like I would anyone else. There's nothing selective or biased about it. Predictable is you stepping in on Bob's behalf whenever we get into an exchange. Nice try.

Werent you the one that was just talking about freedom of speech a few posts ago? Try and keep up skippy. youre way too slow on the draw especially after you just got done going on about feeling free to call people on things. You got called (once again) so deal with it. While youre at it, stop being a dick, its getting old.

 

[lolzgreg]

wooly bass on the guitars, that overwhelm the bass. Or when the high-frequency content of the amplifier creates a shroud over the higher register of cymbals.

What if that is how the amp in question actually sounds or is dialed in for whatever reason (maybe the preference of someone involved in the recording process?), would your editing to hide that woolliness still be a "better" recording ?

Giga

Giga,

In my opinion, unless we're talking about sludge-metal or grunge, one of the main qualities I believe that all good recordings share are a healthy balance of cohesiveness AND seperation.

When you are recording music, there is a point where you cannot put in more "gain" of a specific frequency without it crossing the threshold, causing digital clipping (we're talking digital here). On all finished mixes, there is a brickwall limiter of some sort, preventing the audio from crossing -.1 dB (at least this is the number in most cases). This is usually done in the mastering stage of recording.

An analogy often used, is that a mix is a lot like a painting, and that the more shades of/tones of a specific color are used, the more indistinct the painting will be.

Every instrument needs to occupy a certain range of frequencies in the mix in order to sound powerful and be heard clearly.

For example, if you have a singer who has vocals that are greatly prominent in the higher-mid frequencies, you would probably be better off choosing an amplifier like a Bogner or Diezel, that has more of a lower-mid grind. You don't want frequencies to combat with one another.

If you have cymbals that are relatively dark sounding, you need to keep the guitar tones on the darker side.

If your bassist is playing a 5 string bass, the fundamental of the B string is in the 30-50hz range. If you're playing thrash metal, you're going to want to have the kick drum to be much more prominent in the higher portion of the low end (think 100hz) instead of the more thumpy 50-80hz area. Also, the faster the kick playing is, the more high frequencies you want in the kick. I generally do a substantial high-shelf on the kick around 5khz so I get a nice balance of click and thump.

I believe that 90% of the tone is at the source. You REALLY need to know how to capture the instrument you're micing up, otherwise the final product will suffer substantially. A mix should sound great once everything is panned out and levels are set. If the mic'd up guitar cabinet sounds wooly and stuffy in the mids, you're not going to get a clear, powerful tone in the final mix with a lot of sheen. If the guitar amp has too much bass dialed in, you're going to be causing more excursion from the speakers, which makes the microphone diaphragm react differently to the sound, with is going to fight with the punch of your drums and audibility of your bass guitar.

You can't really fix these things in a mix in the way you can fix them before they hit the microphone.

I rarely do no eq'ing to my finished guitars aside from a high-pass and low-pass (which I do to almost all instruments in some way). EQ'ing in the DAW also causes phasing of the source it is being applied to. Any amount of editing will NOT yield the same result as recording the tone properly in the first place.

 

[Giga]

wooly bass on the guitars, that overwhelm the bass. Or when the high-frequency content of the amplifier creates a shroud over the higher register of cymbals.

What if that is how the amp in question actually sounds or is dialed in for whatever reason (maybe the preference of someone involved in the recording process?), would your editing to hide that woolliness still be a "better" recording ?

Giga

Giga,

In my opinion, unless we're talking about sludge-metal or grunge, one of the main qualities I believe that all good recordings share are a healthy balance of cohesiveness AND seperation.

When you are recording music, there is a point where you cannot put in more "gain" of a specific frequency without it crossing the threshold, causing digital clipping (we're talking digital here). On all finished mixes, there is a brickwall limiter of some sort, preventing the audio from crossing -.1 dB (at least this is the number in most cases). This is usually done in the mastering stage of recording.

An analogy often used, is that a mix is a lot like a painting, and that the more shades of/tones of a specific color are used, the more indistinct the painting will be.

Every instrument needs to occupy a certain range of frequencies in the mix in order to sound powerful and be heard clearly.

For example, if you have a singer who has vocals that are greatly prominent in the higher-mid frequencies, you would probably be better off choosing an amplifier like a Bogner or Diezel, that has more of a lower-mid grind. You don't want frequencies to combat with one another.

If you have cymbals that are relatively dark sounding, you need to keep the guitar tones on the darker side.

If your bassist is playing a 5 string bass, the fundamental of the B string is in the 30-50hz range. If you're playing thrash metal, you're going to want to have the kick drum to be much more prominent in the higher portion of the low end (think 100hz) instead of the more thumpy 50-80hz area. Also, the faster the kick playing is, the more high frequencies you want in the kick. I generally do a substantial high-shelf on the kick around 5khz so I get a nice balance of click and thump.

I believe that 90% of the tone is at the source. You REALLY need to know how to capture the instrument you're micing up, otherwise the final product will suffer substantially. A mix should sound great once everything is panned out and levels are set. If the mic'd up guitar cabinet sounds wooly and stuffy in the mids, you're not going to get a clear, powerful tone in the final mix with a lot of sheen. If the guitar amp has too much bass dialed in, you're going to be causing more excursion from the speakers, which makes the microphone diaphragm react differently to the sound, with is going to fight with the punch of your drums and audibility of your bass guitar.

You can't really fix these things in a mix in the way you can fix them before they hit the microphone.

I rarely do no eq'ing to my finished guitars aside from a high-pass and low-pass (which I do to almost all instruments in some way). EQ'ing in the DAW also causes phasing of the source it is being applied to. Any amount of editing will NOT yield the same result as recording the tone properly in the first place.

Thanks for that lengthy reply. I totally see where you're coming from but you actually missed my point... What I meant was: do you think polishing an amps tone (be it while carefully recording orwhile editing) to a level it will not reach in live circumstances still represents it "better" ? I mean, buying an amps based on less than optimal clips and be surprised in a positive way seems better to me than buying an amp based on stellar recordings that the -to be- owner can't match, live or otherwise...

Giga

 

[lolzgreg]

Thanks for that lengthy reply. I totally see where you're coming from but you actually missed my point... What I meant was: do you think polishing an amps tone (be it while carefully recording orwhile editing) to a level it will not reach in live circumstances still represents it "better" ? I mean, buying an amps based on less than optimal clips and be surprised in a positive way seems better to me than buying an amp based on stellar recordings that the -to be- owner can't match, live or otherwise...

I rarely do no eq'ing to my finished guitars aside from a high-pass and low-pass (which I do to almost all instruments in some way)

I think you may have missed that statement as well. I almost NEVER do any post-processing to my guitars aside from a highpass and a lowpass, which is just getting rid of unneccsary frequencies that cloud up a mix. There is no studio trickery in my guitar recordings. Any of the tones I record in the studio would be able to be used live. It all depends on the person putting the microphone in front of the amp and dialing it in

 

[RedB4Black]

This statement is true. I have an opinion, so do you. There is a difference. In this case, I value mine more than yours. For every amp I've ever wanted to purchase, I checked the amplifier manufacturer's website for clips. None of them sounded like the amps I played. Boogie is doing a good job now, but it still doesn't sound like a well recorded rectifier!

How do you like the Uberschall clips on the Bogner site?

...and have you done clips of your Baron yet?

 

[kasperjensen]

All the best of luck.

 

[lolzgreg]

This statement is true. I have an opinion, so do you. There is a difference. In this case, I value mine more than yours. For every amp I've ever wanted to purchase, I checked the amplifier manufacturer's website for clips. None of them sounded like the amps I played. Boogie is doing a good job now, but it still doesn't sound like a well recorded rectifier!

How do you like the Uberschall clips on the Bogner site?

...and have you done clips of your Baron yet?

The clips on the Bogner site sound pretty good. I see yours there on there I will be glad to listen again when I get home

Baron Clips are on the clips section. That was my first time micing up the amp. I plan on doing more as soon as I can make more DIs.

 

[lolzgreg]

All the best of luck.

Thank you