Am I missing out on anything with boutique amps?

Governator said:
I run a Diezel Herbert with a Mesa Mark V + EQs. I wonder if replacing the Mark V with an MTL2 could really be that different.
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Any Mark series amp is far far different than any Wizard model, as they are a mix of HiWatt/Modded Marshall.
Whether or not it’s your thing is of course subjective.
 
panhead said:
Ive always been :unsure: puzzled as why Im having to boost an amp that has 5 or more preamp tubes
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It does get a bit mid boggling. I've gone the opposite direction and at this point prefer the old non-mv. Before the EVH code was cracked, the boutique builders benefitted from sourcing better components, and quality work vs the cost reduced current production products. I think the transformer quality was a big part of the benefit.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
So many condemn using a boost in front of a high dollar amp and that's their prerogative. If it gets the sound I want, throwing a $50 OD in front of a $5k amp is non-issue for me. Shit I'm not ashamed to say I use an EQ in the loop of that same amp too. The MCII and many other amps I've owned would be useless to me without a boost...I'm not ashamed to say that. With a boost the MCII is basically what I've searched for all my years of tone searching.
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Exactly. Different gain stages layer differently. The clipping of a pedal in front of an amp is going to be different than additional tube stages in the amp. Sometimes it's not even about the clipping. Lots of pedals add gain, or can boost output, or add/cut tone or other color. It's not the same as an additional tube stage or two. Not necessarily better or worse, just depends on what we're looking for.

It's not like we all have the same tastes or are required to have the same preferences :cool:
 
Until you put a Slo 100 or 30 (dialed in) next to a 5150 or 6505 ect, but don't if it's out of reach $ wise. Not being a snob at all here, I am blessed to have a little play cash to be able to sample a lot of amps over the past 5 years.
All I can say is the discerning ear will hear the difference
Gain structure will be way more articulate and refined in a BE, a Bogner or Slo or my current fav the 3rd power Kitchen sink. Cheaper amps have a ton of compressed gain that borders fizz and if that's all you know and hear you will love it, same with a modeler.

Until you A/B them you will never know. Lastly, agree with everyone else, if your happy rock on! :m17:
 
I don't play insanely undergained or oversaturated amps and prefer not to use any pedals in front of an amp. But some amps boutique or not need the additional EQing inherent to most dirt pedal designs to get rid of flubby low end for example and having the ability to push an amp just a few dBs when I'm having a bad day or when I'm practicing at low volume is an added bonus.
Implementing filters is a balancing act in amp design. I like to have tone shaping options that others might find distracting or overwhelming and what I perceive as tight others might think is utterly sterile and lifeless so unless an amp is custom built to your style an amp designer has to find a sweet spot that doesn't have to work for everybody in any given situation and this goes for boutique amps as well.

If that means throwing a boost in front of an amp gives you what you're looking for then just do it. It doesn't matter if that amp is $500 or $5000 just use the gear you already have to its full potential and go from there.
 
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Some guys sound really good with certain amps. Vinnie Moore first got famous recording an album with a little solid state Peavey. I think Dimebag Darrell ended up using a relatively cheap solid state head. in fact, a lot of great metal bands use Peavey 6505s and EVH 5153s these days.
Just understand that inflation has been the biggest game changer. Everything has gotten so disgustingly expensive that we've already gotten to the point we're paying more now for lower quality, China and India made stuff than we used to pay for boutique stuff just a couple of years ago - and almost all the companies are exploiting that now.
Therefore, I don't think most people really have a choice than to rely on lesser quality gear because who the hell can afford $2,200 to $3,200 for an amp or Guitar these days? Even if you make a good salary, EVERYTHING has gotten so expensive that nothing's affordable any more. Lots of people don't buy Doritos any more because they're putting less in the bags and charging $6 or $7 for those chips. It's become like a "Do the best with what you can afford" kind of market.
By the way, what's mind-boggling is how so many people on YouTube in 3rd world countries are playing better gear these days than most of us are in America. Lastly, COVID quickly became the biggest excuse to downsize, absurd price increases, bad service, and diminish support of products. The worst kind of politics has driven us down to this state so rapidly, in just a couple of years, and millions of college kids just aren't getting it at all. Therefore, it's unlikely that competition could soon arise to restore affordable quality to the American market. Play a 6505 and it'll sound good, so who cares what it costs as long as it's reliable.
 
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MistaGuitah said:
Some guys sound really good with certain amps. Vinnie Moore first got famous recording an album with a little solid state Peavey. I think Dimebag Darrell ended up using a relatively cheap solid state head. in fact, a lot of great metal bands use Peavey 6505s and EVH 5153s these days.
Just understand that inflation has been the biggest game changer. Everything has gotten so disgustingly expensive that we've already gotten to the point we're paying more now for lower quality, China and India made stuff than we used to pay for boutique stuff just a couple of years ago - and almost all the companies are exploiting that now.
Therefore, I don't think most people really have a choice than to rely on lesser quality gear because who the hell can afford $2,200 to $3,200 for an amp or Guitar these days? Even if you make a good salary, EVERYTHING has gotten so expensive that nothings affordable any more. Lots of people don't buy Doritos any more because they're putting less in the bags and charging $6 or $7 for those chips. It's become like a "Do the best with what you can afford" kind of market.
By the way, what's mind-boggling is how so many people on YouTube in 3rd world countries are playing better gear these days than most of us are in America. Lastly, COVID quickly became the biggest excuse to downsize, absurd price increases, bad service, and diminish support of products. The worst kind of politics has driven us down to this state so rapidly, in just a couple of years, and millions of college kids just aren't getting it at all. Therefore, it's unlikely that competition could soon arise to restore affordable quality to the American market. Play a 6505 and it'll sound good, so who cares what it costs as long as it's reliable.
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hear-hear-correct.gif
 
headlessdeadguy said:
Bob only plays the OG shit.
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No wonder it sounded so harsh and shrill in his intro clips. What he is not addressing is exactly zero recording of 'OG' Marshalls exist with out a ton of post tone production i.e. smoothing the shrillness

Just listen to a Gary Moore live album versus a Scorpions album from the 80's one has no post production and the 2nd makes it sound killer -nothing like what it sounds like in the room. Point being all the boutique amps are taking a Marshall circuit and replacing a few caps and making custom transformers ect getting closer to the 'post production' album tone we all have in our DNA from hearing the finished product.

Lastly some guys are so used to that raw harsh tone they will stick with it, they are also deaf as a result :p seriously, there is a local pick up builder and he makes them super high out put with the presence on 17 as a result of being pretty deaf. Just listen to Bob talk he yells cause he can't hear, that or is he an over talker to try and make his point.
 
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cragginshrd said:
Until you put a Slo 100 or 30 (dialed in) next to a 5150 or 6505 ect, but don't if it's out of reach $ wise. Not being a snob at all here, I am blessed to have a little play cash to be able to sample a lot of amps over the past 5 years.
All I can say is the discerning ear will hear the difference
Gain structure will be way more articulate and refined in a BE, a Bogner or Slo or my current fav the 3rd power Kitchen sink. Cheaper amps have a ton of compressed gain that borders fizz and if that's all you know and hear you will love it, same with a modeler.

Until you A/B them you will never know. Lastly, agree with everyone else, if your happy rock on! :m17:
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I agree. There is a certain richness and note definition that I've experienced in boutique amps vs. mass production. That being said, there are so many fantastic mass production amps these days that nobody needs to feel like they HAVE to go down the boutique rabbit hole. I'm somewhere in the middle now and can have fun on either end of the cost spectrum.
 
cragginshrd said:
No wonder it sounded so harsh and shrill in his intro clips. What he is not addressing is exactly zero recording of 'OG' Marshalls exist with out a ton of post tone production i.e. smoothing the shrillness

Just listen to a Gary Moore live album versus a Scorpions album from the 80's one has no post production and the 2nd makes it sound killer -nothing like what it sounds like in the room. Point being all the boutique amps are taking a Marshall circuit and replacing a few caps and making custom transformers ect getting closer to the 'post production' album tone we all have in our DNA from hearing the finished product.

Lastly some guys are so used to that raw harsh tone they will stick with it, they are also deaf as a result :p seriously, there is a local pick up builder and he makes them super high out put with the presence on 17 as a result of being pretty deaf. Just listen to Bob talk he yells cause he can't hear, that or is he an over talker to try and make his point.
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The joke went right over your head didn't it?
 
Racerxrated said:
Because it sounds and feels better, than without the boost.
Boosting an already gained out amp has nothing to do with the amount of gain.
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I generally end up boosting for heavy rhythms specifically to tighten things up, though I generally end up pushing the rhythm channel for that. I have no problems blasting the front end of my SLO, Mesa's, etc. with a lowly Boss SD-1. It gets the sound I want. (I keep trying boutique OD's and keep going back to the SD-1.)

People get way too wound up trying to get everything from the amp, and no using pedals. The goal is a great sound. Use the tools, all the tools, to get there. It isn't about what's boutique, what's not, but about what sounds great when put together to get what you need. I usually play straight into an amp only for classic rock or blues stuff.
 
rstites said:
I generally end up boosting for heavy rhythms specifically to tighten things up, though I generally end up pushing the rhythm channel for that. I have no problems blasting the front end of my SLO, Mesa's, etc. with a lowly Boss SD-1. It gets the sound I want. (I keep trying boutique OD's and keep going back to the SD-1.)

People get way too wound up trying to get everything from the amp, and no using pedals. The goal is a great sound. Use the tools, all the tools, to get there. It isn't about what's boutique, what's not, but about what sounds great when put together to get what you need. I usually play straight into an amp only for classic rock or blues stuff.
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I was one of those ‘no boost needed!’ guys for 20 years. My first foray into RT was chasing modded Marshall’s; and most of those sounded ‘smaller’ with a boost. Wasn’t until I bought my first SLO that I finally tried one, loved it, and decided to boost the Jubilees I had as well….now there isn’t an amp I don’t boost lol
 
Racerxrated said:
I was one of those ‘no boost needed!’ guys for 20 years. My first foray into RT was chasing modded Marshall’s; and most of those sounded ‘smaller’ with a boost. Wasn’t until I bought my first SLO that I finally tried one, loved it, and decided to boost the Jubilees I had as well….now there isn’t an amp I don’t boost lol
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Yep, same here. I boost my wizard modern classic and it sounds NUTS
 
MistaGuitah said:
Some guys sound really good with certain amps. Vinnie Moore first got famous recording an album with a little solid state Peavey. I think Dimebag Darrell ended up using a relatively cheap solid state head. in fact, a lot of great metal bands use Peavey 6505s and EVH 5153s these days.
Just understand that inflation has been the biggest game changer. Everything has gotten so disgustingly expensive that we've already gotten to the point we're paying more now for lower quality, China and India made stuff than we used to pay for boutique stuff just a couple of years ago - and almost all the companies are exploiting that now.
Therefore, I don't think most people really have a choice than to rely on lesser quality gear because who the hell can afford $2,200 to $3,200 for an amp or Guitar these days? Even if you make a good salary, EVERYTHING has gotten so expensive that nothing's affordable any more. Lots of people don't buy Doritos any more because they're putting less in the bags and charging $6 or $7 for those chips. It's become like a "Do the best with what you can afford" kind of market.
By the way, what's mind-boggling is how so many people on YouTube in 3rd world countries are playing better gear these days than most of us are in America. Lastly, COVID quickly became the biggest excuse to downsize, absurd price increases, bad service, and diminish support of products. The worst kind of politics has driven us down to this state so rapidly, in just a couple of years, and millions of college kids just aren't getting it at all. Therefore, it's unlikely that competition could soon arise to restore affordable quality to the American market. Play a 6505 and it'll sound good, so who cares what it costs as long as it's reliable.
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Kudos to you for this. Lots of wisdom in that post.
 
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