Amps with terrible re-sale values.

[LP Freak]

I have noticed over time that a lot of big name amps have terrible re-sale values. Two in particular... Wizard and Diezel. These are both great amp companies, but seem to have trouble fetching 60-70% of their cost back?

Opinions, thoughts?

I think it's because they are too expensive to begin with and you can get one practically anywhere if you really want one, no?

Exactly...buying one of these boutique channel switchers is no different than buying a new RV...the second you drive it off the lot, it depreciates 30-40%.

In time the CCV might end up falling into that category.

 

[Anonymous]

it's because most of these brands have no name recognition outside of gear geek message boards...


for resale ( at least in the US) you should stick with the big brands..

fender
Gibson
PRS
Marshall
Mesa

- your average Joe knows these brand names and feels comfortable buying them..

I am sure with the crap economy resale value is bad on all of them right now I wouldnt sell anything I have good coin into right now

 

[King Guitar]

Cameron mods and Cameron amps so far have really held their value. I think that trend will hold up because they sound like no other to me. Take it with a grain of salt as I am a partner in the Cameron company but I do believe it.

 

[Digital Jams]

it's because most of these brands have no name recognition outside of gear geek message boards...


for resale ( at least in the US) you should stick with the big brands..

fender
Gibson
PRS
Marshall
Mesa

- your average Joe knows these brand names and feels comfortable buying them..

I am sure with the crap economy resale value is bad on all of them right now I wouldnt sell anything I have good coin into right now

Pretty much it, outside the forums all these high dollars amps are worthless anyways.

Anyways playing UPS man is not a hobby I enjoy, I buy right the first time and play capital gains games with my 401 instead.

 

[reilly]

Randall RM100s are cheap as dirt and no one seems to want them either. They seem really hard to sell around here.

+1 These are near impossible to sell and take a huge hit. My friend finally sold his after 12 months, He let it go for around $600 loaded with models in near mint condition (Blackface, KH1, KH2) Cant give them away these days.

I lucked out when i sold mine about 3.5 years ago when they were in hot demand, I sold it for more then i bought it for new (i got a killer deal on it and prices rose significantly from when i got mine)

 

[Digital Jams]

Cameron mods and Cameron amps so far have really held their value. I think that trend will hold up because they sound like no other to me. Take it with a grain of salt as I own the Cameron Amps brand but I do believe it.

IMO............

Back 6-7 years ago Camerons were the ONLY modded marshall out there that had that sound and feel so yeah they commanded big bucks. You would get maybe one or two shots a year to get one when they came up for sale. Once you got one you were done and never thought of selling it. Now every week some guy is selling one for whatever reason, the price / demand ratio has never been better.

Now though you have many choices of pretty much the same circuit design, I have played many side by side and they are so close that any one of them would have made me happy. There is NO reason to be paying $2500 for a modded Cameron any longer and the people in the know will agree. Now camerons are flipped just as much as any other amp for reasons I have no idea. The elite owners club has been destroyed by progress. I know many that wanted modded camerons have now moved on due to the choices now available.

Sorry but it is true, ask other guys that wanted cameron mods 6-7 years ago

 

[IndyWS6]

Hughes & Kettner - they get very little love (at least here...) and the resale value is crap. I'm biased (get it? it's a TOOB amp ) because I have one, but they sound great, are built like tanks and get stupid loud. You know, if you're into those traits

 

[155]

vht for sure

 

[King Guitar]

Cameron mods and Cameron amps so far have really held their value. I think that trend will hold up because they sound like no other to me. Take it with a grain of salt as I own the Cameron Amps brand but I do believe it.

IMO............

Back 6-7 years ago Camerons were the ONLY modded marshall out there that had that sound and feel so yeah they commanded big bucks. You would get maybe one or two shots a year to get one when they came up for sale. Once you got one you were done and never thought of selling it. Now every week some guy is selling one for whatever reason, the price / demand ratio has never been better.

Now though you have many choices of pretty much the same circuit design, I have played many side by side and they are so close that any one of them would have made me happy. There is NO reason to be paying $2500 for a modded Cameron any longer and the people in the know will agree. Now camerons are flipped just as much as any other amp for reasons I have no idea. The elite owners club has been destroyed by progress. I know many that wanted modded camerons have now moved on due to the choices now available.

Sorry but it is true, ask other guys that wanted cameron mods 6-7 years ago

My experience has been different and I have sold more Cameron amps than anyone on the planet other than Mark. Every one I have put up has sold in minutes for asking price. Allot of buyers of these amps are not regulars on the forums although some are.

Also there are lots of very well known players who want his amps but need to do it on the QT as they are in paying endorsement deals but they all live in LA and know whats up. If you could see my inbox you might be surprised

For what its worth I think Mark and Dave Friedman are the two best amp Marshall tone type guys in the business. To my ears their designs are different enough to have both, I would say Dave is more versatile and can get more tones and Mark does what he does and gets his signature sound that I do not hear in other amps. YMMV.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I feel like I'm reading a commercial

 

[King Guitar]

I feel like I'm reading a commercial

Not so much, I think I have a long track record of calling it as I see it. Its just that only invest in things I believe in 1000%

 

[fek]

Randall RM100s are cheap as dirt and no one seems to want them either. They seem really hard to sell around here.

+1 These are near impossible to sell and take a huge hit. My friend finally sold his after 12 months, He let it go for around $600 loaded with models in near mint condition (Blackface, KH1, KH2) Cant give them away these days.

I lucked out when i sold mine about 3.5 years ago when they were in hot demand, I sold it for more then i bought it for new (i got a killer deal on it and prices rose significantly from when i got mine)

I don't plan on selling my RM100KH but mine is unique so the value should hold up a little bit better. I have a couple people in line to buy it now should I ever decide to sell it.

Pretty much all amps take a huge hit on the used market. That is why I try to buy used whenever possible. The AxeFx's are still holding their used prices however.

 

[King Guitar]

+1 on Axe Fx Ultras, they hold their value like a champ.

 

[Digital Jams]

Cameron mods and Cameron amps so far have really held their value. I think that trend will hold up because they sound like no other to me. Take it with a grain of salt as I own the Cameron Amps brand but I do believe it.

IMO............

Back 6-7 years ago Camerons were the ONLY modded marshall out there that had that sound and feel so yeah they commanded big bucks. You would get maybe one or two shots a year to get one when they came up for sale. Once you got one you were done and never thought of selling it. Now every week some guy is selling one for whatever reason, the price / demand ratio has never been better.

Now though you have many choices of pretty much the same circuit design, I have played many side by side and they are so close that any one of them would have made me happy. There is NO reason to be paying $2500 for a modded Cameron any longer and the people in the know will agree. Now camerons are flipped just as much as any other amp for reasons I have no idea. The elite owners club has been destroyed by progress. I know many that wanted modded camerons have now moved on due to the choices now available.

Sorry but it is true, ask other guys that wanted cameron mods 6-7 years ago

My experience has been different and I have sold more Cameron amps than anyone on the planet other than Mark. Every one I have put up has sold in minutes for asking price. Allot of buyers of these amps are not regulars on the forums although some are.

Also there are lots of very well known players who want his amps but need to do it on the QT as they are in paying endorsement deals but they all live in LA and know whats up. If you could see my inbox you might be surprised

For what its worth I think Mark and Dave Friedman are the two best amp Marshall tone type guys in the business. To my ears their designs are different enough to have both, I would say Dave is more versatile and can get more tones and Mark does what he does and gets his signature sound that I do not hear in other amps. YMMV.

Not refuting the sales times, just the need to pay for a premium Also not talking about the CCV.

Artists are not really forum members researching what is out there, of course Mark's name is big out there due to his location and who has played his amps. Been a fan of Mark's work for close to 10 years and have met him, always backed him up when the drama queens would gather in their knitting circles.

Yup, Dave's amps do sound different and why cameron fans from the day perfer mark's designs. It is about the feel. Mark also has this upper mid sizzle that some want, a tad more saturation. Dave maintains more focus and bark.

As I stated, I like Mark and hope the best for him and also tip my hat to you for what you have pulled off but facts are facts. There was a reason back in the day why the prices were high, you could not get them and now I could grab one at any moment. The VIP line has been opened to the caddies

 

[6AM]

Elmwood amps seem impossible to move lately. I've seen a few Modena 90's sell for $1500 recently and even those stuck around a while. These amps used to fetch about a grand more than that with ease. I suspect that, like Diezel, it being an imported amp that was once hard to find had something to do with the resale being high. Now that the market is saturated their resale has gone down.

With used amps, with rare exception of those on the fine line of amp and collectible, if you buy new you'll always take a bath on resale. Camerons have a high resale value because of their limited availability. Once (if) they become widely available that resale value will go down, too. The same thing happened with the CAE OD100. After Suhr started producing them, the resale dropped about a grand. Basic market economics.

 

[King Guitar]

Cameron mods and Cameron amps so far have really held their value. I think that trend will hold up because they sound like no other to me. Take it with a grain of salt as I own the Cameron Amps brand but I do believe it.

IMO............

Back 6-7 years ago Camerons were the ONLY modded marshall out there that had that sound and feel so yeah they commanded big bucks. You would get maybe one or two shots a year to get one when they came up for sale. Once you got one you were done and never thought of selling it. Now every week some guy is selling one for whatever reason, the price / demand ratio has never been better.

Now though you have many choices of pretty much the same circuit design, I have played many side by side and they are so close that any one of them would have made me happy. There is NO reason to be paying $2500 for a modded Cameron any longer and the people in the know will agree. Now camerons are flipped just as much as any other amp for reasons I have no idea. The elite owners club has been destroyed by progress. I know many that wanted modded camerons have now moved on due to the choices now available.

Sorry but it is true, ask other guys that wanted cameron mods 6-7 years ago

My experience has been different and I have sold more Cameron amps than anyone on the planet other than Mark. Every one I have put up has sold in minutes for asking price. Allot of buyers of these amps are not regulars on the forums although some are.

Also there are lots of very well known players who want his amps but need to do it on the QT as they are in paying endorsement deals but they all live in LA and know whats up. If you could see my inbox you might be surprised

For what its worth I think Mark and Dave Friedman are the two best amp Marshall tone type guys in the business. To my ears their designs are different enough to have both, I would say Dave is more versatile and can get more tones and Mark does what he does and gets his signature sound that I do not hear in other amps. YMMV.

Not refuting the sales times, just the need to pay for a premium Also not talking about the CCV.

Artists are not really forum members researching what is out there, of course Mark's name is big out there due to his location and who has played his amps. Been a fan of Mark's work for close to 10 years and have met him, always backed him up when the drama queens would gather in their knitting circles.

Yup, Dave's amps do sound different and why cameron fans from the day perfer mark's designs. It is about the feel. Mark also has this upper mid sizzle that some want, a tad more saturation. Dave maintains more focus and bark.

As I stated, I like Mark and hope the best for him and also tip my hat to you for what you have pulled off but facts are facts. There was a reason back in the day why the prices were high, you could not get them and now I could grab one at any moment. The VIP line has been opened to the caddies

You are correct in all of that and I agree 100% with your assessment on the tone differences between Mark and Dave's designs. I make no apologies for Marks past business. Luckily I think he has turned the corner with a little help. I am a caddie and much prefer their company than the VIPs.

 

[steve@russo]

I have noticed over time that a lot of big name amps have terrible re-sale values. Two in particular... Wizard and Diezel. These are both great amp companies, but seem to have trouble fetching 60-70% of their cost back?

Opinions, thoughts?

I think it's because they are too expensive to begin with and you can get one practically anywhere if you really want one, no?

Exactly...buying one of these boutique channel switchers is no different than buying a new RV...the second you drive it off the lot, it depreciates 30-40%.

In time the CCV might end up falling into that category.

Without controlling the amount released, they 100% will, I am sure they will have to make more then they would like to this year so they can get rid of all the back orders. Once those guys get their amps (which they have probably already chocked up as a loss) they will be more willing to sell the amps at a loss. So then you have regular production (for profit) then back order production which will take out of the profit, meaning a lot more will have to be produced to break even. I am sure those guys are not in this for charity so I for see a flooded market in about a year. Still doesn't change the way the amp sound.

 

[Fenderoid]

Elmwood amps seem impossible to move lately. I've seen a few Modena 90's sell for $1500 recently and even those stuck around a while. These amps used to fetch about a grand more than that with ease. I suspect that, like Diezel, it being an imported amp that was once hard to find had something to do with the resale being high. Now that the market is saturated their resale has gone down.

With used amps, with rare exception of those on the fine line of amp and collectible, if you buy new you'll always take a bath on resale. Camerons have a high resale value because of their limited availability. Once (if) they become widely available that resale value will go down, too. The same thing happened with the CAE OD100. After Suhr started producing them, the resale dropped about a grand. Basic market economics.

+1

 

[King Guitar]

I have noticed over time that a lot of big name amps have terrible re-sale values. Two in particular... Wizard and Diezel. These are both great amp companies, but seem to have trouble fetching 60-70% of their cost back?

Opinions, thoughts?

I think it's because they are too expensive to begin with and you can get one practically anywhere if you really want one, no?

Exactly...buying one of these boutique channel switchers is no different than buying a new RV...the second you drive it off the lot, it depreciates 30-40%.

In time the CCV might end up falling into that category.

Without controlling the amount released, they 100% will, I am sure they will have to make more then they would like to this year so they can get rid of all the back orders. Once those guys get their amps (which they have probably already chocked up as a loss) they will be more willing to sell the amps at a loss. So then you have regular production (for profit) then back order production which will take out of the profit, meaning a lot more will have to be produced to break even. I am sure those guys are not in this for charity so I for see a flooded market in about a year. Still doesn't change the way the amp sound.

"pre-beard" .

 

[King Crimson]

...and the longer you hold onto an amp or even use it for it's intended purpose (actually playing in a band or shows) can diminish the used value even further. Probably why alot of players have roadcases for their amps if they play out.

Because many will pay a premium for road cased/bedroom princess/hardly used/foam strips underneath the amp condition.

I'm sure this is part of the reason why the trend chaser/fad core crowd treat amps as "hot potatoes", because they know as soon as they get an amp a timer goes off in which they have a narrow window in which to dump it for maximum resale value.

Well said Sir, well said.