Angry rant about preamps

[steve_k]

7) What all this means is that the guitarist who wants a full-on midi programmable tubed preamp is pretty much fucked... or at least limited to a small handful of options. The Marshall JMP-1 is now off the market (and never sounded that good to my ears, anyway), and the Mesa Triaxis is, like all Mesa gear, stupidly overpriced. There really isn't anything else out there anymore.

Really, you find a used Mesa Triaxis overpriced? You need to read a Triaxis manual and look at all the capabilities of it. For what you can get out of it, I find it very cheap. Perhaps you are shooting to high if this is out of your budget. It's got more MIDI control, channels and modes than anything out there, short of a digital modeller. If you want insanely overpriced and no MIDI control, think Bogner Fish.

 

[muudrock]

Egnater M4 with a huge choice of modules to choose from....stock and modded...?

 

[Little B]

maybe its the ol "different strokes for different folks deal" but EVERY time a client plugs into this rack and demos the pres',after demoing all the modelers,they rent the rack every time- and the most oft comment I hear is " feels just like plugging straight into an amp head".Now, Im still on the lookout to add a CAE 3+ yet. I love love love this rig.

 

[RG955TT]

I have had a fish and I still have a Triaxis. Steves right, the Triaxis is immensely versitile and can be bought especially used at a very fair price. I had both fish and tri in my rack and traded off the fish towards my BE100, worth more and the Triaxis has sounds just as good (almost)and way more versitile, almost any tone you can imagine is in that preamp, you just need to know how to set it up and what power amp to pair it with. it and my Simul395 power amp was my main gigging rig for years.
Companys build what will sell in quantity, and we guitarists it seems still prefer heads and cabs. Honestly I thought about going back to my rack rig from my Bogner 20th but the head and a pedalboard are lighter, easier to move and sound better to my ears.

 

[Shark Diver]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm an avid rack guy(see my sig pic). I love the versatility of racks and they make more sense for me in my situation. I'm with you in that there are not enough rack guitar preamps available on the market these days and modelers just don't cut it for me either. As far as full midi rack guitar preamps go, I feel they are a compromise between flexability and tone. For example, I previously owned a Soldano X99 and really like it's versatility. I had the opportunity to try out the X88r next to it and felt the X88r sounded better, more organic and amp-like for lack of a better term. The tone difference was significant enough that it outweighed the versatility of the X99. I now own an X88r. Same thing with the Engl E570 and E580. I've owned my E570 for awhile now and a few years ago, had the opportunity to purchase the E580. When I compared the two(running through my Engl 850/100 poweramp as well) the E570 just sounded better and I ending up selling the E580. Point being, it seems that when manufacturers add in all the bells and whistles such as full midi, the tone is compromised to some extent. It's up to the individual to determine what is more important to them. To me, until manufactures can produce something that doesn't compromise the tone while adding all the functionality that we want, I would rather just pay an extra couple of hundred dollars for an Amp Gizmo or something to give me the functionality I need while preserving the tone of the preamp.

+1

And what head doesn't have the same issues? The problem is that, head or pre, multiple channels usually have one great channel, and then usable channels. The things I like about the X99 I found I can get with the X88 and a boost - and it sounds better. And with the right power amp, sounds amazing. Same old story from me - RACK AMPS Best of both worlds.

Really at this point I think most rack gear is just going to be modeling.

 

[boltzthrower]

I'm sure a forum post is not going to change anyone's mind, but FWIW, the modern modelers make INSANELY good preamps with the cab modeling turned off and the many of them have good to world class FX. Preamp modeling has been pretty much nailed by the modeling at this point.

+1

Step 1: I made the Axe FX sound almost identical to my E570.
Step 2: I made the Axe FX sound better than my E570.
Step 3: I sold my E570.
I'm talking about using it strictly as a preamp, that is, through a tube power amp and guitar cab. If you've already tried that and it didn't work out for you, or you don't want to spend hours tweaking to get there, then to each his own. But if you haven't, then don't knock it 'til you try it.

Slightly off topic, and as already mentioned, I find the lack of tube power amp options even stranger than the lack of preamps. Not that there aren't totally badass power amps out there, but I can't believe there isn't much competition.

You would think rack gear would be more en vogue, especially nowadays. To me, a head is like a guitar with permanently affixed pickups - I'm surprised more people don't want to mix and match.

 

[midnightlaundry]

I ran the TriAxis rack for about 13.5 years. I had an ADA MP-1 for about 5 before that. The Tri was definitely a step up. I always liked that you could have a lead tone and a rhythm tone that you could program. But in the end, it's just to big to lug around. If I can't carry it myself up or down stairs, then it's to big.

I sold it for a Mark V. The tone is better and has more of them too.

 

[Anonymous]

i REALLY want a mark v....i've been obsessing over one for a long time now....and, as much as i want some other amps.....
it's at the top of my list.

the ONLY thing that's keeping me from REALLY really devoting my money to one is what steve k said about the power section.....

is it THAT bad compared to other mesas? i know he's somewhat of a mesa guy, and really knows his mesa stuff.....but is the mkV power section THAT bad?

 

[midnightlaundry]

What's wrong with it? It's the most versatile power section in any amp allowed by law..

 

[steve_k]

i REALLY want a mark v....i've been obsessing over one for a long time now....and, as much as i want some other amps.....
it's at the top of my list.

the ONLY thing that's keeping me from REALLY really devoting my money to one is what steve k said about the power section.....

is it THAT bad compared to other mesas? i know he's somewhat of a mesa guy, and really knows his mesa stuff.....but is the mkV power section THAT bad?

It's not that it's that bad. It's different to any of the originals and I found it better to slave to something else. Your results may vary.

 

[jlbaxe]

It has a great power amp section. The amp is the easiest Mesa to me to dial in. AMAZING cleans, Mk I needs some eq'ing but Mk II sounds great (since I have never owned a CII+). Solo boost that is controllable.

As for preamps the Egnater M4 is midi and one of the top 5 best out there. Haven't tried any Mesa preamps,or Bogner fish….yet

 

[rupe]

Why rant...you solved your problem with the ADA. FWIW, I've owned/tried almost every high-end preamp out there (Marshall, Mesa, Bogner, H&K, Groove Tubes, etc) and always ended up coming back to my old MP1...it wasn't always better but it was consistently "just as good". It's not perfect but in the right rig it still holds up...dynamic response seems to be its biggest liability IMO (but frequently a non-issue for heavier styles, and easily mitigated with patch changes).

 

[stratotone]

I need to dump some, since my Kemper has pretty much killed my need for most tube amps... I currently have a Titan preamp that I put up for sale with near zero interest in the classifieds. Killer two channel crazy crazy crazy hi gain pre.

I'm also surprised there is no love for the Mesa Quad in this thread. Four channels of Mark series goodness - it's like having a Mark II and a III crammed in a rack. Has Fender blackface cleans too. I even have an old Randall RM4 preamp (takes the modules) - and several power amps sitting around. Sounds like I need to make a ginormous classifieds thread

Pete

 

[hellaboogie]

I'm sure a forum post is not going to change anyone's mind, but FWIW, the modern modelers make INSANELY good preamps with the cab modeling turned off and the many of them have good to world class FX. Preamp modeling has been pretty much nailed by the modeling at this point.

+1

Step 1: I made the Axe FX sound almost identical to my E570.
Step 2: I made the Axe FX sound better than my E570.
Step 3: I sold my E570.
I'm talking about using it strictly as a preamp, that is, through a tube power amp and guitar cab. If you've already tried that and it didn't work out for you, or you don't want to spend hours tweaking to get there, then to each his own. But if you haven't, then don't knock it 'til you try it.

Slightly off topic, and as already mentioned, I find the lack of tube power amp options even stranger than the lack of preamps. Not that there aren't totally badass power amps out there, but I can't believe there isn't much competition.

You would think rack gear would be more en vogue, especially nowadays. To me, a head is like a guitar with permanently affixed pickups - I'm surprised more people don't want to mix and match.

PM'D

 

[Spaceboy]

Some people just plain do not want a modeler. It's not the answer for everything.

 

[Shark Diver]

Some people just plain do not want a modeler. It's not the answer for everything.

I agree. But (tube) pre amps were a niche market anyway. And now with modelers the niche has been niched even more, which will make it harder to make $ with tube pre amps - so less offered. So more boutique, which equals more expensive which will shrink the market, so less will be offered, and so on and so on.

 

[JMP2203]

Step 1: I made the Axe FX sound almost identical to my E570.
Step 2: I made the Axe FX sound better than my E570.
.

i owned an AXEfx 2 for a while and come on, thats imposible! my e570 sounds way better and real than the fractal

 

[rocknrolla]

Step 1: I made the Axe FX sound almost identical to my E570.
Step 2: I made the Axe FX sound better than my E570.
.

i owned an AXEfx 2 for a while and come on, thats imposible! my e570 sounds way better and real than the fractal

With a tube power amp it's very possible. I had an Axe-Fx for about a year and played it as a preamp/fx unit through the a mesa 50/50. Amazing set up but I soon discovered I spent 98% of my time tone chasing instead of playing so I sold it for something more simple.

 

[mightywarlock]

I have owned:
Digitech GSP 2101 (still have)
Mesa Triaxis (sold)
ADA MP-1 (sold)
ADA MP-1 3TM (3 Tube Mod) (Still have)
Marshall JMP-1 (sold)
Rocktron Prophesy (sold 2 of them)
Rocktron Voodoo Valve (sold)
Rocktron Pro G.A.P. (Still have)
Marshall EL34 100/100 (Sold)
Mesa 2:90 (sold)
VHT 2:90:2 (Still have)
Axe-FX Ultra (Sold)
Axe-FX II (Still have)

My take on Rack gear?

The idea is great.
The versatility is great.
The tones...
sometimes great, sometimes not as good as a head.
The ability to mix and match, cool, but there is something typically lost in the connection between amp head and rack piece and power amp.
This, and also the fact that Rack rigs are too damn heavy for the typical small club player.

I built myself an awesome rig, I had the Triaxis, 2:90, JMP-1, and a few others in my rack.
When it was time to play a gig, I couldn't lift the rack to get it in my car. a 10 or 12 space rack, on wheels.
I got help, and we still could not get it in the back of my car.

That was the end of my rack rig. I felt defeated, and was like, this is ridiculous. Traded a bunch of rack gear off a few years ago for a Diezel Herbert, and this probably began the resurrection of treating Amp Heads like Preamp settings...needing more and more choices.
Now it's over the top, but I have many choices.

As for the Axe-FX as a preamp?

Perhaps my VHT power amp is not up to snuff (it needs new tubes), but I was not happy with using it live. Axe-Power-Cab, live i needed to tweak on the fly in a rush, and missed the versatility of being able to tweak and go.
Now with the Axe-II, it may be better since you have the dials on the front you can program to tweak the amp stuff, but I haven't gone back.
Amp heads just sound better, more 3D sounding for playing out live. At least to me.

 

[Anonymous]

im convinced that guitar/cord/amp is the way to go for me.

saw a band this weekend, and the main guitarist was slamming the front end of a matchless with a drive pedal and playing a tele, and it sounded phenomenal. the other dude was playing a fuchs amp and cab setups, and they meshed really well sonically.

for me, right now, less is better. guitar/cord/amp-tubes/speakers.