Angry rant about preamps

[Little B]

This vht/bogner/soldano rack rig (in a few posts back),sounds exactly dead on with plugging into the real amp heads.also own heads from soldano bogner bad cat....no tone difference to me...if you TOUR,even if u don't, its pretty much the standard to have a rack and heads combined.....I actually prefer the x88 over the slo head...to each their own I guess.

 

[Shark Diver]

This vht/bogner/soldano rack rig (in a few posts back),sounds exactly dead on with plugging into the real amp heads.also own heads from soldano bogner bad cat....no tone difference to me...if you TOUR,even if u don't, its pretty much the standard to have a rack and heads combined.....I actually prefer the x88 over the slo head...to each their own I guess.

For me the key to a pre is which power amp is used.

 

[jlbaxe]

This vht/bogner/soldano rack rig (in a few posts back),sounds exactly dead on with plugging into the real amp heads.also own heads from soldano bogner bad cat....no tone difference to me...if you TOUR,even if u don't, its pretty much the standard to have a rack and heads combined.....I actually prefer the x88 over the slo head...to each their own I guess.

For me the key to a pre is which power amp is used.

Same here. I thought the RT2/50 had the best amp head like feel to it paired with an Eggy M4

 

['63-Strat]

I don't know many original bands that really require *that* many different tones to necessitate a programmable preamp in the first place, honestly. The only situations I can think of would be cover bands and really, that's only if you're obsessed with recreating the original tones exactly (which I don't think is really that necessary). And in those situations modellers really are the best bet anyways IMO. What sort of gigs are you playing?

 

[lolzgreg]

Hope this is close enough, but how about a complete rack amp? Kyle Rhode's does make the first real balls to the wall rack head: http://rhodesamplification.com/products ... rs/artemis

 

[boltzthrower]

... and also the fact that Rack rigs are too damn heavy for the typical small club player.

I built myself an awesome rig, I had the Triaxis, 2:90, JMP-1, and a few others in my rack.
When it was time to play a gig, I couldn't lift the rack to get it in my car. a 10 or 12 space rack, on wheels.
I got help, and we still could not get it in the back of my car...

That's why you keep the power amp in one rack and everything else in another. I had to learn that the hard way myself - I felt like a moron when I realized I needed to split it up after already buying the "refrigerator on wheels".

 

[steve_k]

The ability to mix and match, cool, but there is something typically lost in the connection between amp head and rack piece and power amp.

This is a sometimes difficult one to get used to. I am wondering how much of it is perceived or conceived? There's definitely a disconnect though to work around with pre and power amps. Some go better together than others.

As for the Axe-FX as a preamp?

Perhaps my VHT power amp is not up to snuff (it needs new tubes), but I was not happy with using it live. Axe-Power-Cab, live i needed to tweak on the fly in a rush, and missed the versatility of being able to tweak and go.
Now with the Axe-II, it may be better since you have the dials on the front you can program to tweak the amp stuff, but I haven't gone back.
Amp heads just sound better, more 3D sounding for playing out live. At least to me.

I will be gigging with my A2 rig next weekend. No cabs, no power amps. All Axe sims direct to FOH and active monitor wedges. After years of hauling around a rig, and one that usually changes a lot, the peeps are going to be scratching their asses wondering where all that big ass sound is coming from.....

Steve

 

[singtall]

i traded some gear and got another Rocktron Prophesy II (my 5th one) the other day. i believe i had some blah experiences with it in the past because i paired it with the wrong speaker cabinet. i tried this one with my old grey fuzzy 1993 Carvin 4x12" cabinet and even the factory presets sounded good. i spent about 2 hours making a preset to match my Soho preamp, and i ended up so close that i'm selling my Soho preamp.

I believe the Prophesy II is pretty good if you like modded Marshall tones. some of the effects are pretty good, but the harmonizer is crap. not a bad unit to pick up if you can find it used.....but i wouldn't pay full retail for one.

it's got a tube in it, but i think they are using it pretty much as a warmer to the digital front end. they did the same thing with the voodoo valve...which was a chameleon with a tube warmer.

 

[Shark Diver]

I don't know many original bands that really require *that* many different tones to necessitate a programmable preamp in the first place, honestly. The only situations I can think of would be cover bands and really, that's only if you're obsessed with recreating the original tones exactly (which I don't think is really that necessary). And in those situations modellers really are the best bet anyways IMO. What sort of gigs are you playing?

I agree with the original band statement. And the cover band statement until you get into the high end bands. I got more gigs from matching the tone and vibe of many different styles over my playing believe me. And for some of us modelers just don't cut it. IMO

 

[steve_k]

I don't know many original bands that really require *that* many different tones to necessitate a programmable preamp in the first place, honestly. The only situations I can think of would be cover bands and really, that's only if you're obsessed with recreating the original tones exactly (which I don't think is really that necessary). And in those situations modellers really are the best bet anyways IMO. What sort of gigs are you playing?

I agree with the original band statement. And the cover band statement until you get into the high end bands. I got more gigs from matching the tone and vibe of many different styles over my playing believe me. And for some of us modelers just don't cut it. IMO

I was running through some of my selected high gain amps last night on the Axe, dialing in the EQ for each and setting up a few preset FX on the MFC......5150, Splawn QR, IIC+, Mark IV. In the end, I had them all sounding damn near the same

And, David, you were once all about the Axe Ultra. Don't pretend you don't like it...

 

[Shark Diver]

I don't know many original bands that really require *that* many different tones to necessitate a programmable preamp in the first place, honestly. The only situations I can think of would be cover bands and really, that's only if you're obsessed with recreating the original tones exactly (which I don't think is really that necessary). And in those situations modellers really are the best bet anyways IMO. What sort of gigs are you playing?

I agree with the original band statement. And the cover band statement until you get into the high end bands. I got more gigs from matching the tone and vibe of many different styles over my playing believe me. And for some of us modelers just don't cut it. IMO

I was running through some of my selected high gain amps last night on the Axe, dialing in the EQ for each and setting up a few preset FX on the MFC......5150, Splawn QR, IIC+, Mark IV. In the end, I had them all sounding damn near the same

And, David, you were once all about the Axe Ultra. Don't pretend you don't like it...

Ah, if you read the old post I did like it, always said it was the best modeler out there - but I also said it isn't the same as an amp. I even tried using tube pre amps with it. And I always used a mic pre before the FoH. Just never the same. But I haven't even tried the II - so who knows? Just seems to me for the reasons I got rid of the Axe you won't like it either. Too many updates and much harder to dial in. Doesn't have a musical voice to me fx wise like a 2290 or PCM 70. Too clean. Going to different venues really changed the tone (PA speaker dependent) - like bringing your favorite head to a different back line cab every night. If I controlled the PA it was cool, but most gigs had their own.

I was able to scale my rig down, and keep what I like about big rigs at the same time. Not knocking the Axe. Again, I haven't even tried the II. But you have had some kick ass gear and I think you will eventually miss it. Yeah, it's cool to have less to haul and come close to your tones and have every amp at your finger tips - but there is a vibe in cranking up an amp that just can't be matched.

 

[steve_k]

I don't know many original bands that really require *that* many different tones to necessitate a programmable preamp in the first place, honestly. The only situations I can think of would be cover bands and really, that's only if you're obsessed with recreating the original tones exactly (which I don't think is really that necessary). And in those situations modellers really are the best bet anyways IMO. What sort of gigs are you playing?

I agree with the original band statement. And the cover band statement until you get into the high end bands. I got more gigs from matching the tone and vibe of many different styles over my playing believe me. And for some of us modelers just don't cut it. IMO

I was running through some of my selected high gain amps last night on the Axe, dialing in the EQ for each and setting up a few preset FX on the MFC......5150, Splawn QR, IIC+, Mark IV. In the end, I had them all sounding damn near the same

And, David, you were once all about the Axe Ultra. Don't pretend you don't like it...

Ah, if you read the old post I did like it, always said it was the best modeler out there - but I also said it isn't the same as an amp. I even tried using tube pre amps with it. And I always used a mic pre before the FoH. Just never the same. But I haven't even tried the II - so who knows? Just seems to me for the reasons I got rid of the Axe you won't like it either. Too many updates and much harder to dial in. Doesn't have a musical voice to me fx wise like a 2290 or PCM 70. Too clean. Going to different venues really changed the tone (PA speaker dependent) - like bringing your favorite head to a different back line cab every night. If I controlled the PA it was cool, but most gigs had their own.

I was able to scale my rig down, and keep what I like about big rigs at the same time. Not knocking the Axe. Again, I haven't even tried the II. But you have had some kick ass gear and I think you will eventually miss it. Yeah, it's cool to have less to haul and come close to your tones and have every amp at your finger tips - but there is a vibe in cranking up an amp that just can't be matched.

Preaching to the choir dude....

 

[petejt]

5) The damn dumb retro craze that started in the early '90s and killed rack gear as a major force in the music marketplace still hasn't gone away, and shows no sign of doing so.

If Bob Bradshaw and loads of Money were not around in the 1980s, then I reckon the rack gear craze would likely never have happened.

 

[novosibir]

My theory is that programmable preamps use a lot of optocouplers
in the signal path, triaxis, jmp1 and even the X99.

It's pretty obvious that those optocouplers do affect the sound,
even when the manufacturers say they don't...

Yessssssssssssssssssssssss, they do - definitely...
... and after 3 years they're doing this different to how they do it, when they still are new

Non midi preamps Mako and Peters make preamps, I think it's great that the MAK4 is now 2 units, I may think about getting one, can't find any clips of peters preamp, there's possibly Titan preamp and Larry but I think the latter is insanely expensive.

By any means too expensive for low budged sounds

But whether 2,250 EUR basic price w/o NOS tubes, w/o FX loop for the Pure Bliss channel & w/o 2-nd guitar input on the rear panel is too expensive, only you can decide yourself

I've attached my current export price list.

Larry

 

[Anonymous]

rack preamp that i love: ada mp1 original

mine SLAYS....yep. it's passe`. yep, stock, they can sound sterile.

good thing i love modding!

 

[HellraiserJohnny]

I've seen the light . . . . I switched from a modeler in my rack to an H&K Access which I purchased here from a member at an extremely reasonable price (I don't have the $$$$ some seem to have for buying gear . . . I'm a Po Boy : ) and I was amazed at just how much it offered with up to 4 loops, MIDI control and lets not forget. . . TUBE TONE! I've done some research on the unit and found out how to get what I want from it and experimented with tube changes to get what I need. I think I got very lucking finding the H&K Access when I did as I was tired of the Modelers lack of punch and definition. Yes they sound good to you for a while but my problem was I was not bouncing what I got from it off a tube amp for comparison. To me . . . there is none. I can't get what I am getting from the H&K from the modeler but I certainly can get the H&K to clone the modelers I have.

I can also see why some may have a problem with racks and using them to gig ( I've seen the pictures and some of you guys racks . . . forget it!) but I had a very simple solution I use which was to stop using 10-12 space racks and break it down to 2-3-4 space racks. Makes it much easier to get in and out of the car\trunk and also allows me to pick and choose just how much I take out. I separate Power conditioner\tuner\noise reduction(3) - FX\FX\Compressor(3) - Pre amp(2) - Power Amp(3).

Something else I use in live gigs is small 2X12" - 65 Watt X 2 Combo amps what have power amp insert which allows me to use only part of the rig to play a gig. Stack up the racks and 3' - 1/4" plugs plus 3 - 3' and one 10' MIDI cable and I'm set in minutes. If I ever needed the big guns I do the same thing only I send longer cables to the 365 Watt X 2 - Crown and plug in the 4 Marshall 1960 B cabs. Crowns have always sounded great as a solid state power amp and I swear by them.

I have owned a Triaxis and the reason I was looking for another option in the MIDI capable tube pre amp market and changed to the H&K was simply that the Triaxis had more gain than I could actually use and I had to use a lot of noise reduction (which is NOT programmable) when I cranked the gain up. The H&K runs much quieter at it's highest gain settings with much less overall noise reduction required. The H&K is just so much more flexible.

I think that the companies out there are all jumping on the Tube head vs Modeler market bandwagon and it will not change any time soon which to me sucks. I've been a rack guy since the 70's when I went into the studio and found out if you want to sound the way you can in the studio when you play live, you need to use the gear they use in the studio. It's a bitch that there just isn't much out there.

 

[maddnotez]

I've seen the light . . . . I switched from a modeler in my rack to an H&K Access which I purchased here from a member at an extremely reasonable price (I don't have the $$$$ some seem to have for buying gear . . . I'm a Po Boy : ) and I was amazed at just how much it offered with up to 4 loops, MIDI control and lets not forget. . . TUBE TONE! I've done some research on the unit and found out how to get what I want from it and experimented with tube changes to get what I need. I think I got very lucking finding the H&K Access when I did as I was tired of the Modelers lack of punch and definition. Yes they sound good to you for a while but my problem was I was not bouncing what I got from it off a tube amp for comparison. To me . . . there is none. I can't get what I am getting from the H&K from the modeler but I certainly can get the H&K to clone the modelers I have.

I can also see why some may have a problem with racks and using them to gig ( I've seen the pictures and some of you guys racks . . . forget it!) but I had a very simple solution I use which was to stop using 10-12 space racks and break it down to 2-3-4 space racks. Makes it much easier to get in and out of the car\trunk and also allows me to pick and choose just how much I take out. I separate Power conditioner\tuner\noise reduction(3) - FX\FX\Compressor(3) - Pre amp(2) - Power Amp(3).

Something else I use in live gigs is small 2X12" - 65 Watt X 2 Combo amps what have power amp insert which allows me to use only part of the rig to play a gig. Stack up the racks and 3' - 1/4" plugs plus 3 - 3' and one 10' MIDI cable and I'm set in minutes. If I ever needed the big guns I do the same thing only I send longer cables to the 365 Watt X 2 - Crown and plug in the 4 Marshall 1960 B cabs. Crowns have always sounded great as a solid state power amp and I swear by them.

I have owned a Triaxis and the reason I was looking for another option in the MIDI capable tube pre amp market and changed to the H&K was simply that the Triaxis had more gain than I could actually use and I had to use a lot of noise reduction (which is NOT programmable) when I cranked the gain up. The H&K runs much quieter at it's highest gain settings with much less overall noise reduction required. The H&K is just so much more flexible.

I think that the companies out there are all jumping on the Tube head vs Modeler market bandwagon and it will not change any time soon which to me sucks. I've been a rack guy since the 70's when I went into the studio and found out if you want to sound the way you can in the studio when you play live, you need to use the gear they use in the studio. It's a bitch that there just isn't much out there.

Congrats man, I have never been huge into the rack stuff but that Preamp sounds pretty damn killer from what I have heard.

 

[Hamer95USA]

The market was a already flooded with MIDI control type boxes to operate latching switches when mako released their preamp.

for example:
http://www.rjmmusic.com/miniampgizmo.php

Since Andrew is avid on the forums he knew most of us already had such devices and actually saved us the cost of implementing MIDI controls into the unit. for users like you this is a simple add on device.If the mako had built in MIDI i bet it would cost at least $300 more and ONLY be able to switch the functions on the Mako, no extra outpiuts for the other rack gear that may not have MIDI.

Also the Mako is no longer huge, its now two rackspaces.

I do however agree that the huge rack days seems over. Forget preamps, try looking for tube power amps there are about ten that exist and none are all that new.

 

[Hamer95USA]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm an avid rack guy(see my sig pic). I love the versatility of racks and they make more sense for me in my situation. I'm with you in that there are not enough rack guitar preamps available on the market these days and modelers just don't cut it for me either. As far as full midi rack guitar preamps go, I feel they are a compromise between flexability and tone. For example, I previously owned a Soldano X99 and really like it's versatility. I had the opportunity to try out the X88r next to it and felt the X88r sounded better, more organic and amp-like for lack of a better term. The tone difference was significant enough that it outweighed the versatility of the X99. I now own an X88r. Same thing with the Engl E570 and E580. I've owned my E570 for awhile now and a few years ago, had the opportunity to purchase the E580. When I compared the two(running through my Engl 850/100 poweramp as well) the E570 just sounded better and I ending up selling the E580. Point being, it seems that when manufacturers add in all the bells and whistles such as full midi, the tone is compromised to some extent. It's up to the individual to determine what is more important to them. To me, until manufactures can produce something that doesn't compromise the tone while adding all the functionality that we want, I would rather just pay an extra couple of hundred dollars for an Amp Gizmo or something to give me the functionality I need while preserving the tone of the preamp.

 

[Hamer95USA]

Egnater M4 with a huge choice of modules to choose from....stock and modded...?