ASCAP B.S.

[Jordon]

Got a packet in the mail the other day from ASCAP about paying them to have videos on our website. Have any of you ever received this crap? They want like $1200/year or close to that.

As much as I dislike handing any one money...we are talking about videos that have you guys perform material that you don't have the copyright for and host them on your site to draw folks to your shows right?

This is the answer. As much as you may not like, or others may not like having to pay money for this sort of thing, Keep in mind Ascap generally is FOR musicians, and if it was the other way around, you would be a happy camper. Ascap actually does Not take that much in percentages from what Goes to the artist, so don't think of it as ascap getting rich off of the little guys, this is the law, and as a full time composer and artist, I can say I am glad that agencies enforce copyright and intellectual property protection, though that figure seems steep. We can also blame the people who have blatantly disregarded the process and have stolen music after music track for the tougher enforcement. Ascap isn't really the bad guy

Yup.

 

[scottosan]

Probably sue us...but I've talked to a few attorneys this morning and they all say the same thing...pay it. It looks like it might not be $1200/year...might be $340 which is the minimum. We can deal with that.

I think the key is that if you limit the length of your videos to 15 seconds, it's not an issue.

 

[Bob Savage]

Never mess with a company that has a name beginning with ass and ending with cap.

 

[Kiteboarder]

Never mess with a company that has a name beginning with ass and ending with cap.

Hahaha! Good one!

 

[killertone]

Good thing you arent here in Nashville. They have been known to drop into the venues on the strip and demand compensation either from the bar/venue owners or cover bands. The more popular you are the bigger target you become.

This started happening in Austin about a year ago or so. My JP Trbute band had to move a show from a venue that was being targeted by ASCAP or BMI, can't remember which. We play maybe 10-15 times a year for fun so we thought that was a bit ridiculous. All of us are in different original bands as our main gigs so we have never had to deal with it before.

 

[kannibul]

It's bad enough that people don't want to go to bars in the first place, then you get ASCAP running off the bands that would make a place entertaining enough to draw a decent crowd.

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

 

[Shark Diver]

It's bad enough that people don't want to go to bars in the first place, then you get ASCAP running off the bands that would make a place entertaining enough to draw a decent crowd.

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

Exactly. Does anyone really think Bon Jovi friggin' cares you are playing their songs? If they (Bon Jovi) do they are morons. How many guys that haven't made it yet, or are on the way, care that a band - obviously playing covers and not saying it is their (the cover band's) material, would play one of their tunes. I would dig the shit out of something I wrote becoming popular enough for cover bands to play it. I could care less how much they made, it isn't keeping me from making anything. It actually is promoting that song.

 

[kannibul]

It's bad enough that people don't want to go to bars in the first place, then you get ASCAP running off the bands that would make a place entertaining enough to draw a decent crowd.

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

Exactly. Does anyone really think Bon Jovi friggin' cares you are playing their songs? If they (Bon Jovi) do they are morons. How many guys that haven't made it yet, or are on the way, care that a band - obviously playing covers and not saying it is their (the cover band's) material, would play one of their tunes. I would dig the shit out of something I wrote becoming popular enough for cover bands to play it. I could care less how much they made, it isn't keeping me from making anything. It actually is promoting that song.

The thing I see is a "what's next" deal - as in, what's next, charging bands who play original material? Annual Renewals on being allowed to play a guitar...let alone teach (since a good chunk of that is based off playing cover tunes)?

 

[Bob Savage]

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

How is playing the songs via a jukebox a solution? They're going to be asking for royalties on those too.

 

[degenaro]

It's bad enough that people don't want to go to bars in the first place, then you get ASCAP running off the bands that would make a place entertaining enough to draw a decent crowd.

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

And the bar still has to pay regardless of it being jukebox, DJ or band. Just as you pay for your liquor license or electricity if you have a bar. It's the cost of doing business.

 

[degenaro]

It's bad enough that people don't want to go to bars in the first place, then you get ASCAP running off the bands that would make a place entertaining enough to draw a decent crowd.

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

Exactly. Does anyone really think Bon Jovi friggin' cares you are playing their songs? If they (Bon Jovi) do they are morons. How many guys that haven't made it yet, or are on the way, care that a band - obviously playing covers and not saying it is their (the cover band's) material, would play one of their tunes. I would dig the shit out of something I wrote becoming popular enough for cover bands to play it. I could care less how much they made, it isn't keeping me from making anything. It actually is promoting that song.

Well, lets put it like this...it's no a matter of the band that originally recorded it but the writer (which happens to be the same i this case). But I'm willing to bet money that the writer that gets paid via performance royalties would prefer to get what is owed to him/her.
Also, this is no new thing, you got music to sell your drinks, regardless of whether you hav bands, radio, DJ, juke box, you pay one of the PRO whether it's ASCAP, BMI or Sesac....

 

[SkyhighRocks]

Easy guys...we're paying it. Just didn't want to get raped and end up paying more than we should have to. Also, just like when we had to change our band name, the band usually has nothing to do with it...it's the lawyers that drool over this stuff. Bon Jovi had no idea we changed our name. A trademark attorney trademarked the name Jovi years ago before the band really hit it huge. Gotta love attorneys!

 

[degenaro]

It's bad enough that people don't want to go to bars in the first place, then you get ASCAP running off the bands that would make a place entertaining enough to draw a decent crowd.

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

Exactly. Does anyone really think Bon Jovi friggin' cares you are playing their songs? If they (Bon Jovi) do they are morons. How many guys that haven't made it yet, or are on the way, care that a band - obviously playing covers and not saying it is their (the cover band's) material, would play one of their tunes. I would dig the shit out of something I wrote becoming popular enough for cover bands to play it. I could care less how much they made, it isn't keeping me from making anything. It actually is promoting that song.

The thing I see is a "what's next" deal - as in, what's next, charging bands who play original material? Annual Renewals on being allowed to play a guitar...let alone teach (since a good chunk of that is based off playing cover tunes)?

How so? This is not something that just happened, this IS why there are Performance Rights Ogrs, so the writer gets paid for the use of their property.
Seriously you think it's okay to use copyrighted material from some one else you make money off and not pay them their dues. By that logic no one should have ever been able to sue Rappers lifting shit from albums for samples.
Take a look at SkyHighs web pix...mild central spending good money to relive the 80s, and he's profiting. Now the places he plays at pay for the royalties of them performing some on else's material...all good.
Why shouldn't he have to pay a license for the use of that some one else's material to drive those milfs to spent their folding cash on drinks that lets the bar hire a band that makes good money?

 

[degenaro]

Easy guys...we're paying it. Just didn't want to get raped and end up paying more than we should have to. Also, just like when we had to change our band name, the band usually has nothing to do with it...it's the lawyers that drool over this stuff. Bon Jovi had no idea we changed our name. A trademark attorney trademarked the name Jovi years ago before the band really hit it huge. Gotta love attorneys!

As a rule any PRO is usually pretty easy to deal with if you show them numbers.

 

[SkyhighRocks]

Lemme get this straight. You actually believe that your tribute band has some sort of significant effect on Bon Jovi CD sales? That's kinda funny...

Steve

The point was that tribute bands DO help sell cds if they're good...however minimal it may be. Same can be said for good cover bands as well.

 

[Shark Diver]

I get Ed's point. And I understand to a degree. But honestly, unless you can quantify which songs are being played the most and distribute the $ accordingly it just is stupid. I guess because I haven't written a song that is worthy of being "covered" I can't say it wouldn't bug me 100% that someone is in a cover band playing it and I'm not getting $. Sort of like having no kids and telling a parent what to do I guess. But I can say with 99.99% certainty that I don't think I would care one bit.

Most cover bands don't really make money. Start taking out gas, equipment cost, etc. But I know there is no compromise between the 2 sides. It will eventually kill live music clubs. It's hard enough to find gigs, many clubs around here closing - lets just drive in another nail.


The reason I ever wanted to play was seeing a group at my jr high play Hot Legs and Walk this Way at an assembly. I assume they didn't do it for free. I had never heard either song. I went out and bought Toys in the Attic. Hate to think I never would have had that experience because of "the cost of doing business" driving the band out of business or the school not being able to afford it. Just saying...

 

[degenaro]

I get Ed's point. And I understand to a degree. But honestly, unless you can quantify which songs are being played the most and distribute the $ accordingly it just is stupid. I guess because I haven't written a song that is worthy of being "covered" I can't say it wouldn't bug me 100% that someone is in a cover band playing it and I'm not getting $. Sort of like having no kids and telling a parent what to do I guess. But I can say with 99.99% certainty that I don't think I would care one bit.

Most cover bands don't really make money. Start taking out gas, equipment cost, etc. But I know there is no compromise between the 2 sides. It will eventually kill live music clubs. It's hard enough to find gigs, many clubs around here closing - lets just drive in another nail.


The reason I ever wanted to play was seeing a group at my jr high play Hot Legs and Walk this Way at an assembly. I assume they didn't do it for free. I had never heard either song. I went out and bought Toys in the Attic. Hate to think I never would have had that experience because of "the cost of doing business" driving the band out of business or the school not being able to afford it. Just saying...

I dunno...I played plenty of money loser shows wit original stuff bu pretty much always made money with cover stuff. heck my Country gig for all intents and purposes is a cover gig and I started with them doing like 200 a gig, now it averages out in the 400 range.
Last year we sold a 3 song EP from June to September, we spent like 500 bucks in licensing, and sold like 8000 bucks worth of CD...unfortunately the money we spent on it that meant we only broke even.
This year for the Summer Shows we spent 900 bucks in licensing on the new stuff and made a profit of like 3 or 4 k. S, just like every one else I'd rather keep that licensing money...but it sure as heck made me money.

 

[Shark Diver]

I get Ed's point. And I understand to a degree. But honestly, unless you can quantify which songs are being played the most and distribute the $ accordingly it just is stupid. I guess because I haven't written a song that is worthy of being "covered" I can't say it wouldn't bug me 100% that someone is in a cover band playing it and I'm not getting $. Sort of like having no kids and telling a parent what to do I guess. But I can say with 99.99% certainty that I don't think I would care one bit.

Most cover bands don't really make money. Start taking out gas, equipment cost, etc. But I know there is no compromise between the 2 sides. It will eventually kill live music clubs. It's hard enough to find gigs, many clubs around here closing - lets just drive in another nail.


The reason I ever wanted to play was seeing a group at my jr high play Hot Legs and Walk this Way at an assembly. I assume they didn't do it for free. I had never heard either song. I went out and bought Toys in the Attic. Hate to think I never would have had that experience because of "the cost of doing business" driving the band out of business or the school not being able to afford it. Just saying...

I dunno...I played plenty of money loser shows wit original stuff bu pretty much always made money with cover stuff. heck my Country gig for all intents and purposes is a cover gig and I started with them doing like 200 a gig, now it averages out in the 400 range.
Last year we sold a 3 song EP from June to September, we spent like 500 bucks in licensing, and sold like 8000 bucks worth of CD...unfortunately the money we spent on it that meant we only broke even.
This year for the Summer Shows we spent 900 bucks in licensing on the new stuff and made a profit of like 3 or 4 k. S, just like every one else I'd rather keep that licensing money...but it sure as heck made me money.

I hear ya. I think you, and other artist, should get paid. You totally changed my view of downloads in other threads you were in. I know you are coming from an artist point of view, and you know what you are talking about - much more than me. I really just don't want to see things nickeled and dimed to death to the point it closes venues.

 

[kannibul]

But hey, put in this jukebox and don't hire bands, and it's all good.

How is playing the songs via a jukebox a solution? They're going to be asking for royalties on those too.

I know, but that's an annual fee, and ASCAP generally doesn't have to (potentially) get their hands dirty with legal battles - unlike with bands.

 

[Bob Savage]

I know, but that's an annual fee, and ASCAP generally doesn't have to (potentially) get their hands dirty with legal battles - unlike with bands.

You really haven't looked into this, have you?