Boogie C+ reissue oscillation - Youtube done right

TheGreatGreen said:
Yeah it's weird to see it keep happening. Everybody it happens to surely has the same access to all the stories we keep hearing, if not in even more detail, about how the exact same thing happens just about every time.

I wonder if it's just a case of ego. "I mean yeah it happened to all those other guys but come on, this is [company] and I'm me, and that's gotta mean something, right? I bet it'll be different this time I'm sure of it." **gets fired immediately after selling**
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to me its a much bigger ego flex to simply keep the company that you built into something as big as Mesa, rather than sell it to a bigger company and then stay on as a consultant, which of course was gonna end in a weird ending leading to all the click generating speculation we've seen for how long now.. its just kind of a sad ending to me. a flex to me would be naming his yacht the "Marshall of the Waters" or some shit as he sails off into the sunset
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Seriously. Built-in-amp spring reverb is such an antiquated, primitive thing. It also doesn’t go with anything high gain at all. I don’t even think of it as actual reverb simulation anymore really, but rather just some kind of vintage noise ambient effect. It’s almost in the same category to me as like a kind of band pass, AM Radio filter enshitification effect, just something that makes a guitar sound old and recorded by somebody who didn’t care what it sounded like.

Digital verb in the loop or in post is the only way to do it.

I say disconnect the IIC+’s spring box and throw it out.
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This is an interesting hot take here.
You've got guys that will spend a nice chunk of change on things like the fender tube reverb unit, the peavey valverb, clones of these things, etc. So i'm not saying you're wrong, but there are tons of people (likely wearing tan pants) that are going to disagree here. They're use the word "Purity" to describe it, like literal tone nazis lol.
Me in my 20's probably would have disagreed, when i was spending as much time on forums as i was playing... but me at 42 would rather play with digital reverb that has a boat load of tweakable parameters, doesn't color the tone, crispisty clear modern digital converters, etc.
 
i binge listened Randalls you tube page yesterday at work, and one thing he comes back to a lot is this whole concept of "creative chaos".
He doesn't "know what he's doing" the way a schooled engienner does. Hes more of a "playing in the sandbox" type.
He strikes me a very bright guy with a restless mind, but also a happy go lucky stoner. He seems to know about how to get high performance out of small packages (likely from his auto racing passion) and is unafraid of unorthodox solutions (cali high-on mind). With that said, it makes a lot of sense as to why techs HATE his work. they can think of a more "Textbook" way to acheieve what Randall did, and probably view his work as a series of lucky accidents.
 
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JimAnsell said:
i binge listened Randalls you tube page yesterday at work, and one thing he comes back to a lot is this whole concept of "creative chaos".
He doesn't "know what he's doing" the way a schooled engienner does. Hes more of a "playing in the sandbox" type.
He strikes me a very bright guy with a restless mind, but also a happy go lucky stoner. He seems to know about how to get high performance out of small packages (likely from his auto racing passion) and is unafraid of unorthodox solutions (cali high-on mind). With that said, it makes a lot of sense as to why techs HATE his work. they can think of a more "Textbook" way to acheieve what Randall did, and probably view his work as a series of lucky accidents.
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Seems like the kind of guy that never really retires, he's probably posting these videos more because he's more bored than anything else lol.
 
JimAnsell said:
they can think of a more "Textbook" way to acheieve what Randall did, and probably view his work as a series of lucky accidents.
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What I usually hear from techs isn't that it's not "textbook", it's that the way Mesa did something is a broken way of doing it, or is prone to failure, or adds hours onto a repair job for no reason thus costing the owner more, and other stuff like that.
JimAnsell said:
He doesn't "know what he's doing" the way a schooled engineer does. Hes more of a "playing in the sandbox" type.
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That would explain a lot.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Seriously. Built-in-amp spring reverb is such an antiquated, primitive thing. It also doesn’t go with anything high gain at all. I don’t even think of it as actual reverb simulation anymore really, but rather just some kind of vintage noise ambient effect. It’s almost in the same category to me as like a kind of band pass, AM Radio filter enshitification effect, just something that makes a guitar sound old and recorded by somebody who didn’t care what it sounded like.

Digital verb in the loop or in post is the only way to do it.

I say disconnect the IIC+’s spring box and throw it out.
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For Blackface clones or other hard-to-get-excited about cleaner amps I think a spring is still cool but you're right - there is absolutely zero need for it in a higher gain setting.

I'm sure some people play clean with reverb sometimes on a Mark series, but keeping the reverb just because Fender did in the 60's is backwards thinking.

Tone Monster said:
I CAN make my C+ RI squeal but only at extreme settings
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Yeah it doesn't seem to be a widespread issue, but enough cases now to wonder what's going on at Gibson.

And if you're over the jeans controversy, this is interesting unless he's just joking...

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glpg80 said:
This is what I think is happening.

The miller capacitance of the first gain stage of the lead channel is reacting with the reverb wire inductance to the reverb tank of the shared triode of the same tube to make an oscillator.

The solution is very invasive to resolve - the reverb send and return need to be within the same envelope of the same tube and the lead first stage should be matched with a gain stage before the reverb is buffered and preferably one that is 180 out of phase.

The second solution is to convert the reverb buffer to balanced send/return but this is a lot of work and a bandaid.

Basically the problem is they poorly chose which triode stage goes with which tube and didn’t think about proper design choices for wiring in the reverb tank.
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so same as the 2C+ released months ago? so nothing new to see here right?



TheGreatGreen said:
Seriously. Built-in-amp spring reverb is such an antiquated, primitive thing. It also doesn’t go with anything high gain at all. I don’t even think of it as actual reverb simulation anymore really, but rather just some kind of vintage noise ambient effect. It’s almost in the same category to me as like a kind of band pass, AM Radio filter enshitification effect, just something that makes a guitar sound old and recorded by somebody who didn’t care what it sounded like.

Digital verb in the loop or in post is the only way to do it.

I say disconnect the IIC+’s spring box and throw it out.
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Agreed. I pulled mine out of my Rectoverb.

And +1 to your ego comment. It is that plus laziness and no desire to listen/fix
 
311boogieman said:
so same as the 2C+ released months ago? so nothing new to see here right?
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I wasn’t sure exactly what the problem was before but now I’m positive what I’ve stated is the issue. Yes it involves the IIC+ reissue released a few months ago. I’d say the same problem exists in the IIC++.
 
JimAnsell said:
This is an interesting hot take here.
You've got guys that will spend a nice chunk of change on things like the fender tube reverb unit, the peavey valverb, clones of these things, etc. So i'm not saying you're wrong, but there are tons of people (likely wearing tan pants) that are going to disagree here. They're use the word "Purity" to describe it, like literal tone nazis lol.
Me in my 20's probably would have disagreed, when i was spending as much time on forums as i was playing... but me at 42 would rather play with digital reverb that has a boat load of tweakable parameters, doesn't color the tone, crispisty clear modern digital converters, etc.
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Yeah I recognize it won't be an opinion shared by a ton of people and that the vintage tone gurus love spring verb and that's fine for them but yeah I can't stand it really.

For one I kinda hate that "Mix" is basically the only control you have with most spring reverbs, and in general I just don't really like their tone. Give me a great digital Room, Hall, Chamber, or Plate algorithm any day, along with a bunch of controls that let me shape it into whatever I want. Good springs that do the really obvious drip effect are fun to mess with and it's satisfying to hear the ploink but that's about it.

And I get what you mean about how some guys talk about spring "purity" but when you think about it, it's about the least "pure" and honestly about the worst way to approximate actual reverberation that we have... but it's the best artificial reverberation tech they had in the 50's so that's what they used, so now it's enshrined in the minds of players everywhere as "vintage pure" and the "real" way to do it even when what we have now is a lot better at sounding like actual reverb. :)
 
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I have a iic++ reissue and i havent had no issues, i ran my settings high and it sounds great, i dont think its a widespread issue. Two other guys im friends with has the ++ reissue and they havent had any problems either.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
Seriously. Built-in-amp spring reverb is such an antiquated, primitive thing. It also doesn’t go with anything high gain at all. I don’t even think of it as actual reverb simulation anymore really, but rather just some kind of vintage noise ambient effect. It’s almost in the same category to me as like a kind of band pass, AM Radio filter enshitification effect, just something that makes a guitar sound old and recorded by somebody who didn’t care what it sounded like.

Digital verb in the loop or in post is the only way to do it.

I say disconnect the IIC+’s spring box and throw it out.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Did that with my MKIII just to keep that crap reverb tone suck away from the guitar signal. I pull out the reverb tube as well.
 
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