Bugera TriRec Vs. Mesa Dual Recto (Video)

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Joe Sanborn":irvauuk1 said:
Nowadays, most commercially available amps are made in China or Korea. In fact, it is a bit of a myth when people say "Made in the US" etc., as basically all electronic components come from China. So why would an amp sound different if it is built by Asian or Western hands or machines? For example, tubes are only made in China, Russia, and Yugoslavia, even though they carry lots of boutique labels.
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How much do you pay your factory workers?
 
Dear MagicEight,

I am sure you can appreciate that company salaries are confidential.

However you can do an easy Google search as China's salaries are rather transparent and you might be surprised as they rise about 20% every year. China is actually not a low-cost place anymore and engineers’ salaries are now on par with the Western world.

In order to have this discussion on a fair basis, you might also want to check the brands in your signature. Brands such as Fender, Marshall, Gibson, etc. and many more who produce in China including Celestion speakers.

Hope this helps.

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
Joe Sanborn":bnipvp7u said:
Dear MagicEight,

I am sure you can appreciate that company salaries are confidential.

However you can do an easy Google search as China's salaries are rather transparent and you might be surprised as they rise about 20% every year. China is actually not a low-cost place anymore and engineers’ salaries are now on par with the Western world.

In order to have this discussion on a fair basis, you might also want to check the brands in your signature. Brands such as Fender, Marshall, Gibson, etc. and many more who produce in China including Celestion speakers.

Hope this helps.

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
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Joe,

I played a TriRec at NAMM in January. I can confirm it was a great sounding amp, and in fact sounded better than most Mesa Rectifiers I have played. It's obvious it's meant to sound like it and undercut. I don't think your customers are the same crown as Mesas. Your demographics are much younger from what I have seen personally anyway.

I must say sound is never the issue- quality has always been a concern with them from the users posting across the forums. Most are tube related, not to distant after they arrive. This is regarding the infinium amps.



Bugera took a hit with its reputation from the 333 clip concern.


(Take from google image search)

From my experience at NAMM it looked poor in build quality- the Tolex was poorly fitted in the corners, bubbles, unevenness in the pipping on the 4x12 cabs, glue visible in the Tolex seems in the corners. These were on display for everyone to see. That being said I don't think a 20 year old kid will care about that.



NAMM super friends while we are at it:


Still a better effort than Smarvo. They couldn't even get the badges on straight...
 
Dear R45T,

Thanks for your comment.

You are absolutely correct that approximately 5 years ago we had a problem with our first amp batch. The issue was that the Molex connector between the transformer and PCB could not withstand the rated manufacturer current.
Unfortunately we discovered the problem only later as the defect would only occur after a while. However we went out to all our customers and helped them fix the problem.

This problem is long gone and please feel free to open any amp and check them out. For the high-current cathode connections, we now either solder the transformer wires straight on the PCB or use 6.3mm AMP connectors that can carry 15 Amps, which is in line with other manufacturers.

I am not sure about the cabinet. Please remember anything can happen at a tradeshow, the booth is thrown together very quickly in a construction zone enviroment.

Look, we are certainly not perfect and will never be. But over the past years we have made huge investments in improving our quality which includes a $20 million investment in state-of-the-art machines and infrastructure. We are very proud of the success the brand has achieved.

Again we are here to listen and discuss any topic you might want to bring up.

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
Joe Sanborn.... linin' em up and knockin' em down since June 11th, 2013.


bring-it.gif
 
Joe Sanborn":1soh4692 said:
Dear MagicEight,

I am sure you can appreciate that company salaries are confidential.

However you can do an easy Google search as China's salaries are rather transparent and you might be surprised as they rise about 20% every year. China is actually not a low-cost place anymore and engineers’ salaries are now on par with the Western world.

In order to have this discussion on a fair basis, you might also want to check the brands in your signature. Brands such as Fender, Marshall, Gibson, etc. and many more who produce in China including Celestion speakers.

Hope this helps.

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
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Joe, thanks for the reply. I understand. Genuinely curious, why not then produce in the US or Germany instead of China? I imagine having already set up shop there it wouldn't make financial sense to move now, but what about future operations?

As a side note, all of the gear I own comes from the US or the UK. I don't mind Chinese products per se, but as an American, I'd prefer my money go to other Americans.
 
Ultimately, if you like an amp and it does what you want it to do, buy it and enjoy it regardless of what somebody else thinks. If not, move on and buy something else.
 
Dear MagicEight,

Thanks for your reply.

I understand your sentiment, but the truth is that almost all electronic components are made in China nowadays. Many of the brands that you favor, are manufactured in China even though they are UK and US brands. Just check at the back of your products and look for the country of origin.

Instead of leaving manufacturing of our products to a third party factory like many competitors, we want to be in control of our own quality as no one cares more about our products than we do. That’s why we have our own state-of-the-art factory in China which is run by UK and US people. These people are employees of our company and are based in China to oversee manufacturing. They take great pride in making our products in our factory. This is the reason why we now offer a 3-Year Warranty Program for every product we make.

I appreciate you taking the time to express your feelings on this.

Thanks,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
I'd take the Dual Rec :yes: :yes: :yes:

They are amazing amps made with the utmost care and attention to detail. The components used are top notch and the tubes are tested and matched. They practically defined a whole generation of amp building and literally helped create whole metal sub-genres. Randall Smith is a true innovator who pushes the boundaries of what an amp can do. Sure, his amps may cost a bit more but they are made like brick shit houses and you have a sense of security when buying one of his amps new or used. To that end, they are also an investment.

If you buy one of his amps today you know it will carry its value over time in the event you do move on down the road. I've seen Dual Recs in the sub $900 range used as well. I've rarely ever seen anyone complain about the quality of these amps or express disdain over an issue they were having. Mesa also has some of the best customer service in the business and they treat their customers with respect. I can't say enough good things about Mesa Engineering. :)

Also look at the Trem-o-verb, Road King, Mini Rec and Royal Atlantic.
 
Recto sounded fatter and softer. The Bugera had a midrange bite that I mentally associate with the Uberschall. A bit of EQ tweaking and they'd sound too close to tell a difference.

But the Recto wins because it's a Recto, and the Bugera isn't.
 
Joe Sanborn":2i7yes12 said:
Instead of leaving manufacturing of our products to a third party factory like many competitors, we want to be in control of our own quality as no one cares more about our products than we do. That’s why we have our own state-of-the-art factory in China which is run by UK and US people. These people are employees of our company and are based in China to oversee manufacturing. They take great pride in making our products in our factory.
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Third Party and quality control are not mutually exclusive, and in-house and quality control are not automagically synonymous...

That's not how quality works, as an ISO 9001:2008 company you should know that.

Just out of curiosity, how often does your quality policy say management reviews must take place? I'm not looking for any proprietary information, simply wondering how robust your policy is?
 
Joe Sanborn":27lgutz5 said:
I understand your sentiment, but the truth is that almost all electronic components are made in China nowadays. Many of the brands that you favor, are manufactured in China even though they are UK and US brands. Just check at the back of your products and look for the country of origin.

Instead of leaving manufacturing of our products to a third party factory like many competitors, we want to be in control of our own quality as no one cares more about our products than we do. That’s why we have our own state-of-the-art factory in China which is run by UK and US people. These people are employees of our company and are based in China to oversee manufacturing. They take great pride in making our products in our factory. This is the reason why we now offer a 3-Year Warranty Program for every product we make.

I appreciate you taking the time to express your feelings on this.
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Thanks again for a response!

I actually do check - quite carefully - where everything I purchase comes from. My guitars are from the US, as are my pickups. My speakers are either vintage or made in England. And although I realize most electronic components in amps do come from Asia and, specifically, China, I try to - as a worker in US manufacturing - send money to my neighbors in the States for at least an American assembly. Even if it is cliche, I do believe in this country.

It's fantastic that you control your manufacturing instead of sending it off to a third party, and that you're employing workers from the US and UK to run it. But why not move to the States or Germany if wages are no longer advantageous in China?
 
311splawndude":1c78m2m1 said:
I'd take the Dual Rec :yes: :yes: :yes:

They are amazing amps made with the utmost care and attention to detail. The components used are top notch and the tubes are tested and matched. They practically defined a whole generation of amp building and literally helped create whole metal sub-genres. Randall Smith is a true innovator who pushes the boundaries of what an amp can do. Sure, his amps may cost a bit more but they are made like brick shit houses and you have a sense of security when buying one of his amps new or used. To that end, they are also an investment.

If you buy one of his amps today you know it will carry its value over time in the event you do move on down the road. I've seen Dual Recs in the sub $900 range used as well. I've rarely ever seen anyone complain about the quality of these amps or express disdain over an issue they were having. Mesa also has some of the best customer service in the business and they treat their customers with respect. I can't say enough good things about Mesa Engineering. :)

Also look at the Trem-o-verb, Road King, Mini Rec and Royal Atlantic.
Click to expand...

bought my Single for 800 bucks...it was totally worth it. i know if i wanted to sell i could almost get what i paid for it. thing is built like a tank, sounds awesome, and aside from a bad preamp tube it never fails to fire up and kick ass. my 5150 was the same way...had that thing for years and it never failed me, even after a car wreck broke a pot off, and many miles of bumps in uhauls going to shows.

would i try a Bugera? sure. that TriRec sounds pretty decent. doesnt matter the name, just as long as i can get a tone i can live with outta the thing. but would i trust it? only if it worked, problem free, for a few years. maybe ill pick up a used one one day, just to add something to the arsenal...
 
I still think the Tri Rec owns the Mesa in this video :)
 
Whether one sounds better than the other in this video is completely meaningless since they were forced to have the same setting. He could have dialed in a better sound on the Recto and the same settings could have sounded like shit on the Bugera. You can't possibly expect the tone in the video to be the best that a Recto is capable of.
 
Awesome video, although I dislike the "setting vs setting." That would be a good way to disprove it's not a 100% clone/copy.

Would it be possible to put up a video, showing 'if' they can sound like each other?

I it's a called a TriRec (while being 100watts lol son, lol!).

I barely made it thru the first page and then jumped to the last page. I can't believe some nut sac brought up the economy. lol I hope he/she was using a USA made computer/phone with his/her ranting. lol
 
How does this amp compare to the mesa for quality? I remember bugera hasn't been the most reliable amps in the past.
 
Sorry to bump an old ass thread... but I registered specifically because I ended up buying a TriRec today. Fluff's videos were one of the reasons I decided to do this.

Here is the fun part. :) I had purchased a used Mesa Single Rectifier a couple of weeks ago but it just wasn't flexible enough for what I am doing. So, I returned that amp to buy this one.

My thoughts on the people that are being so hard on this amp because it is made in China by a Chinese company are that they are hypocrites.

How many of you have a cell phone made in the US? How about a television? Do you drive an American car?

The free market is the free market... you can't have it both ways. Behringer isn't putting Americans out of jobs. The free market did that.
 
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