borninwinter":6z9otaxw said:
Well I am under 50 and I do have a kid. Not sure where the idea that I don't care came from, or that I'm talking about 1 person buying 1 amp. What I'm saying is all the guitarists in the world making purchasing only American amps still wouldn't impact the overall economy in any meaningful way. The US owes China over $1 trillion right now, there's like a $300 billion per year trade imbalance. Those numbers are larger than the entire amp industry by far (and this is what the drop in the bucket thing was referring to). I think it's bad news for this country in the long term, but I'm not going to try to make myself feel better about by pretending my choice of buying Mesa, or Chevy, or whatever actually means anything at this point given those numbers. Caring/not caring, being optimistic/defeatist doesn't have anything to do with it, it's just reality.
It's not about feeling better about yourself, it's about not digging deeper into the hole we're in. And it's all purchase, not just amplifiers. Taken by itself - and the same can be said for most industries - the amp industry is insignificant. But everything adds up. And if 10 people decide to buy American products instead of Chinese, where possible, then maybe 1 - 2 more Americans will keep their job through the course of a year.
Everything adds up. Buying American isn't just about a trade imbalance or national deficit, it's about - for me - 1) investing in quality and 2) helping my neighbors.
borninwinter":6z9otaxw said:
What does matter in terms of US manufacturing is cost of labor. Unless you find a large number of Americans that are willing to work in manufacturing for what people in Asia are (I don't know of many), we can't compete and manufacturing isn't coming back to this country on a large scale. This is the key and it has nothing to do with anyone's choice of American vs foreign at the store.
Henry Ford paid his workers an unprecedented $5 / day for unskilled labor. Why? So his workers would turn around and buy his cars. I don't need to remind you that it worked.
And it has everything to do with people's choices at the store. How? If some other company came in, stole Ford's design, manufactured it with cheap labor and sold it for half the price, Ford would have gone out of business if his workers and the public bought this competitor's cars. That exact thing is what caused manufacturing to move to Asia. Only we don't have the jobs to replace these American ex-factory workers, so all we've accomplished is fiscal suicide.
borninwinter":6z9otaxw said:
You don't necessarily have to have manufacturing to be a successful economy, but in addition to making it really expensive to manufacture here, we've also decided that the government should spend a couple trillion more than we have every year.
You're totally correct that we theoretically don't need physical manufacturing to be successful. But then we need to produce something else. Great designs or ideas, businesses, etc., and that's something we're simply not doing right now.
Why is manufacturing here so expensive? Because of environmental regulations and policies in place to treat workers fairly (similar, if not stricter, policies are in place in the EU). Have you read first hand accounts from China? Have you seen a Chinese person come here, amazed at how clean the air is? That's not an accident. That's the cost of manufacturing, and to do otherwise is cheating. Industrial parks in China are disgusting, cities are filled with pollution, and factory workers' well being there is terrible. I'm not going to support that. I think it's a form of slow torture.
borninwinter":6z9otaxw said:
If anyone has some viable ideas about actually lowering the cost of US manufacturing or of getting the spending, which leads to the borrowing, under control, I'd be happy to support those.
I don't think anything is going to change from the current path we're on until something comes to a head. Pessimistic, I know, but I don't think people in America can avoid the temptation of cheap products with the mindset that "they are insignificant and don't matter".
But I don't think the outlook is so bleak for people willing to work hard. I'm in school for engineering. I'm actually a little older, having started school working towards an audio degree. I changed my mind after working for a reputable audio equipment manufacturer (in America!) and seeing first hand what the workforce and manufacturing industry is really like. Granted, I like engineering anyway, but that convinced me to actually study it.
Point is, the people around me now aren't in constant worry. The job market for science and engineering majors isn't too bad at all, especially worldwide. If you're halfway good at it, you will probably never struggle with money. And so my support goes to leading education in the direction of math, science, technology and other promising careers that will make a difference.
If we can't (or won't) manufacture goods, that means we're importing. It also means - if we don't want a deficit - we need to export. And if we're not manufacturing products, we need to export ideas and services. I know insurance is big right now, for example. But we're not doing enough because foreigners - the Chinese in particular - don't want or need enough of what we offer. And until and unless they do, my choice is to buy made in USA.
I'd like 1/2 of that drop in the bucket. We all agree that any 1 person making 1 purchase does not impact much of anything in the nation's economy. The point is for many reasons that are not in the USA's best interest, we off shored most of our manufacturing base and all of the middle class jobs that were associated to them. If you are under 50 or have kids you'd better start caring....unless you like living in poverty.
