Cab speaker mixing question/seeking input

[jw11432]

I've been out of the live playing game for awhile, but miss the sound of a tube amp with a proper speaker cab. I just picked up a Fender 4x12 that has 3 G12T-100's and one mystery replacement speaker. I used to have an Avatar 4x12 that had 2 G12T-75 and 2 V30's and sounded pretty great. I've been reading that the G12T-100's sound better than the 75's, including more bass response, and based on the testing I did before I bought it, I'd have to agree they are bass monsters.

My question comes in with getting some feedback from others about swapping out the mystery speaker and one 100 for a couple of other speakers to round out a nice sounding cab. I had my eye on a couple of Celestion Super 65's, given the mid-range they're supposed to offer. Thoughts on such a combination? 2-G12t-100 and 2 Celestion Super 65, likely in X configuration.

 

[jw11432]

Seriously? No one has any experience with the Super 65's?

 

[barnesjd]

Well if you'd like a spiel on speakers, I'll give ya one.

No, I've tried neither the Super 65s or the T100s. But I have experimented with X's in 412s, including a cab with 2 T75s and 2 Mesa V30s. Out of the X's I've tried, it has been the best.

Honestly... just play with it as much as your budget can afford. As for exactly which speakers to try, I think it's just important to be a educated in a speaker before you spend the money much like you are already doing. The two main things I recommend becoming familiar with are efficiency and speaker breakup...

Efficiency roughly equates to how loud a speaker will sound with a given amount of power from an amp. Guitar loud speakers typically are in the range of 96 to 100db. The higher, the louder. So note that if you mix a 97 db speaker (like the T75) with a 100 db speaker (like the V30), you can expect the higher efficiency speaker to be more pronounced in the mix. There's not a right or wrong here. There are mixes like this one where they are nearly polar opposite ends of the spectrum, and other popular mixes where they're more closely matched.

Speaker breakup is a really big deal that I honestly wish I had understood and played with much earlier in my quest for tone. Thus far all of the speakers we've mentioned are not known for speaker breakup. They have really high wattage handing compared to the amps pushing them, especially when in a 412. For the longest time I thought these were the speakers for me, until I tried some greenbacks. Those are a whole nother monster. When I use my 50-watter against mine (to be precise, I have the EVH Heritage Greenbacks), they start to distort around 11:00 on the master, and they just distort more without getting noticeably louder as you crank the amp. To my ears, it makes for some gorgeous saturated overdriven tone. But... you gotta be playing full volume. Anyway, because speaker breakup sounds good, a popular combo I've seen a lot lately is 2 Greenbacks and 2 V30s. You'll get speaker breakup tone, but you still have that upper mid cut that V30s are so known for.

Personally, I would recommend the GB/V30 combo but that's just what my ears have liked. A word of caution... You may find yourself like me where I now carry two half stacks because I found two different speakers I love with two different styles of amplifiers.

 

[jw11432]

Well, that is still helpful information, thank you!

 

[maddnotez]

That is some really good info. I have never considered the speaker breakup portion of the equation before. Was all about DB for me. I may need some Greenbacks now

 

[barnesjd]

That is some really good info. I have never considered the speaker breakup portion of the equation before. Was all about DB for me. I may need some Greenbacks now

Yes dude... I LOVE the low-end of GBs. There's a growl and sponginess that you get compared to V30s etc. It's not a bassy low-end that competes with a bass player either.

 

[MYDEMISE]

I have done quite a bit of speaker combinations in a few cabs. Bogner, Friedman, Splawn, Mesa, Voodoo, Genz Benz, Avatar, Mills etc. I found I like the more midrange frequency speakers up top and the thumping speakers on the bottom. The exception is the bogner uberkab X pattern. My current favorite combinations are all Celestion except for the Weber Legacy series which are great. I do think the Wgs veteran 30, retro 30, Eminence swamp thang & Tonker are nice too. As far as Celestion combinations go, here are my favorites:

English greenbacks on top/ English V30 bottom in a Friedman cab as well as the same combination in a bogner Uberkab.

English v30 top / g12h30 heritage bottom in a standard Bogner cab

Stock rear loaded uberkab
75 & v30 X pattern

Bogner Uberkab
All v30s

Voodoo amps 4x12
Greenback + v30 top
Weber Legacy LG dust cap 50 oz magnet + g12h30 55 Hz bottom

Experiment and find your favorite combo....

 

[barnesjd]

I have done quite a bit of speaker combinations in a few cabs. Bogner, Friedman, Splawn, Mesa, Voodoo, Genz Benz, Avatar, Mills etc. I found I like the more midrange frequency speakers up top and the thumping speakers on the bottom. The exception is the bogner uberkab X pattern. My current favorite combinations are all Celestion except for the Weber Legacy series which are great. I do think the Wgs veteran 30, retro 30, Eminence swamp thang & Tonker are nice too. As far as Celestion combinations go, here are my favorites:

English greenbacks on top/ English V30 bottom in a Friedman cab as well as the same combination in a bogner Uberkab.

English v30 top / g12h30 heritage bottom in a standard Bogner cab

Stock rear loaded uberkab
75 & v30 X pattern

Bogner Uberkab
All v30s

Voodoo amps 4x12
Greenback + v30 top
Weber Legacy LG dust cap 50 oz magnet + g12h30 55 Hz bottom

Experiment and find your favorite combo....

That's what I'm talking about. I might try the V30 + G12H30 combo if I get bored. I have the spares available. I only tried them with two Heritage GBs but I didn't see anything I really liked about the H30. Too bassy, but I'm open to trying it with some V30s.

So Bogner cabs are my favorite hands down. I have three and no joke I'm picking up a fourth tomorrow. Other than the grill cloth and speakers, what is different between the Uberkab and the standard cab? From the sound of your post, I feel like there must be something else.

 

[D-Rock]

Although they are the same type of speaker, I really like combo of Chinese V30s in the top and WGS Vet30s in the bottom of my oversized straight 412.

The cab itself is inherently big and dark sounding. So, being that it has a straight baffle, I wanted the Chinese V30s up top as they have a highend treble sizzle and that typical V30 mid hump which would help with projection and my own ability to hear my sound.

Putting the Vet30s in the bottom works well because they have a deeper lowend than the V30s, smoother treble and more relaxed, grinding midrange.

They are two speakers from the same "family" but with different levels of characteristics. They're frequencies don't compete or confuse the player, like I found when mixing other speakers over the years.

A great combination, although suited and tailored for the specific cab they are in.

 

[MYDEMISE]

No difference in the construction or wood. The older Bogner wheat grill material is thicker and cuts down on some annoying highs.

 

[barnesjd]

No difference in the construction or wood. The older Bogner wheat grill material is thicker and cuts down on some annoying highs.

Ok gotcha. Thanks!