Clean to Mean Rack Tones 12/27/25

[GuitarVacation]

Chris is a ripper and very cool!

i ran sound and simultaneously videotaped (camera mic) the first concert at Tone Merchants a scant 17 or so yrs ago!



He was using a CAE rig with a Fish for this show. I regret not filming a quick rig rundown with him but it was a hectic afternoon because at the time the room was just a box with an elevated stage and the lighting was funky so i had a friend bring some curtains/frames to help diffuse echoes a bit, tried to gel the lights (which Chris helped with) and tried to put a drum shield around Kofi but he wasn’t having it

i miced everything and flew by the seat of my pants! There were these fluorescent light panels on the ceiling which was crushing their vibe at first. Rob the bassist walked up to the mic after the first song and said “Cleanup on Aisle 9..” teasing how overly bright the room was, so i made the executive decision to kill them! they were way happier but the video suffered in the dark curtains v white walls background contrast!

side note was when Landau and Fletcher played there the same thing happened with the lights. i could tell Mike wasn’t feeling it and then i popped the fluorescents off and he said “Ah..” into the mic and relaxed his shoulders

View attachment 428342

Dude! Running sound a setup for LEGENDS. It's no wonder you can dial in tones so well, you've heard them live and up close, straight from the source.

Referring Chris using a CAE and a Fish: I think I could roll with that set up LOL

 

[Little B]

i think for me Preset B would be more useful if i had an H8000 or fractal and wanted to control the on/off state of specific effects in a chain within a preset without switching to another preset and deal with loading time glitches.

i did dabble with attempting to make my PCM 80 a looper and reassign Preset B IA switched into CC controllers, but failed

however i did get some of that functionality i wanted using boss footswitches inserted in the PCM 1/4” footswitch jacks.



but to do it properly the PCM needs to be at the end of the line so all the other fxs are entering the PCM versus running parallel.

one of the H8000 engines would be great to do that with too.
it’s why my braddah Zach had Bob route the H8000 the way he did:


View attachment 428340

the H8k converters being clean enough to run 2 ins/outs at the end of the line in series, to loop or affect the whole wet mix,
or use at the Mix 1 position to feed H8k fx into other fx. the power of H8k routing and 4 analog ins/outs!

Definitely. I have used the 8000 that very way before.stay in a Preset and switch blocks on and off with cc#s.

 

[Shask]

Honestly, the 2290 is one of my top pieces of gear. The way it throws audio around the stereo spectrum and really messes with your ears is something I can't recreate on anything else. It's just such a unique unit and honestly one of the few that was really truly meeting the hype of the legendary rack gear when I started really pursuing it.

I have never tried the real rack, but I love the 2290p pedal!

 

[Exo-metal]

I just got back into rack gear after a hiatus. The PCM 70, PCM 42 and TSC were the only pieces I really sought out as well and honestly, it’s plenty. I have the FM3 in the mixer where I can use it in series or parallel and honestly, I use that as much as anything. I use it for a bit of everything. Micropitch when using the dedicated pieces for the other stuff. It doesn’t have the depth of the dedicated pieces (same for using amp models vs real amps through the react ir) but unless I’m going for the full 80’s swell/wash thing, it’s super convenient for getting sounds fast.

Those 42s!!!!

 

[PhilC]

Those 42s!!!!

Analog dry. They’re great in an amps loop.

 

[Exo-metal]

Just give me one and all my delay dreams will come true

 

[mentoneman]

I have never tried the real rack, but I love the 2290p pedal!

every demo i’ve heard of that thing sounds proper.
i gave my buddy the 1210 desktop version for his protools rig and he digs it.
instead of goofing around with cheezy units, tc/behringer needs to make a 1U hardware i/o box incorporating their tc icon series 2290, 1210, 8010 / DVR250 reverbs, which all sounds great. utilize the existing dock/controllers and put the whole system on a sliding rack tray:

 

[mentoneman]

Those 42s!!!!

right?!

 

[Shask]

every demo i’ve heard of that thing sounds proper.
i gave my buddy the 1210 desktop version for his protools rig and he digs it.
instead of goofing around with cheezy units, tc/behringer needs to make a 1U hardware i/o box incorporating their tc icon series 2290, 1210, 8010 / DVR250 reverbs, which all sounds great. utilize the existing dock/controllers and put the whole system on a sliding rack tray:

The only thing I dont like about the 2290p is that it is not analog dry through. However, I can say it is one of the only units that is not ADT where I dont detect any sort of tone or dynamic change running through it.

I like the 2290 mode on the Toneprint pedals also, like the Flashback 2.

 

[mentoneman]

The only thing I dont like about the 2290p is that it is not analog dry through. However, I can say it is one of the only units that is not ADT where I dont detect any sort of tone or dynamic change running through it.

I like the 2290 mode on the Toneprint pedals also, like the Flashback 2.

i had the original flashback and then switched to the X4 so i could have better live functionality with 3 presets (analog slap, dotted 8th, ethereal tape delay)

i wasn’t a fan of that pedal’s 2290 preset but i LOVED the PGS EP-3 tape echo toneprint.



and i swear the og flashback sounded better than the X4. i also briefly had the triple delay.

 

[Shask]

i has the original flashback and then switched to the X4 so i could have better live functionality with 3 presets (analog slap, dotted 8th, ethereal tape delay)

i wasn’t a fan of that pedal’s 2290 preset but i LOVED the PSG EP-3 tape echo toneprint.

and i swear the og flashback sounded better than the X4. i also briefly had the triple delay.

I have the Flashback 2, Hall of Fame 2, Corona, and 2 of the Plethora X1s.

I love the X1s. I have been using them daily. They are analog dry through and can basically be any Toneprint pedal. I have a nice HoF Hall Reverb, Flashback 2 2290 delay, Corona Trichorus, and Brainwaves dual pitch detune. The only bad thing is I can only use 1 a a time. The Mimic is cool also.

 

[mentoneman]

Dude! Running sound a setup for LEGENDS. It's no wonder you can dial in tones so well, you've heard them live and up close, straight from the source.

Referring Chris using a CAE and a Fish: I think I could roll with that set up LOL

to answer the IE4 v BE-DLX question,

i use the IE4 for:
Ch 1 glassy modern clean for my TSC sound
Ch 2 for alternative fendery vintage clean
Ch 3 old warm vintage marshall sound
Ch 4 smoother fusion lead

i feel that the IE4 adds some extra dimension particularly in Ch 1 and 4 that syn modules can’t achieve.

the DS (JTM clean to breakup) and BE-DLX (modded modern marshall) modules in the Syn-2 focus on the tones the IE4 can’t cover as well.

 

[GuitarVacation]

to answer the IE4 v BE-DLX question,

i use the IE4 for:
Ch 1 glassy modern clean for my TSC sound
Ch 2 for alternative fendery vintage clean
Ch 3 old warm vintage marshall sound
Ch 4 smoother fusion lead

View attachment 428444

View attachment 428446

i feel that the IE4 adds some extra dimension particularly in Ch 1 and 4 that syn modules can’t achieve.

the DS (JTM clean to breakup) and BE-DLX (modded modern marshall) modules in the Syn-2 focus on the tones the IE4 can’t cover as well.

Man, hell of a set up. Yeah, the IE4 thick fusion tone is the one that keeps me after an IE4. Thick liquid fusion tone gets me every time.

I’ve even considered getting one of the Eg 3/4 modules for my Synergy, but the originals are hard to come by and the modder that does that model (can’t remember if it’s Salvation or Jaided Faith) requires a donor module.

With all that, if I was to pull the trigger, probably wouldn’t be that much more expensive to get an IE4, or least a couple channels of it custom built into a standalone preamp.

I’ve thought about this way too much LOL

 

[Exo-metal]

These are killer preamps. Poland has a red one!!

 

[mentoneman]

I have the Flashback 2, Hall of Fame 2, Corona, and 2 of the Plethora X1s.

I love the X1s. I have been using them daily. They are analog dry through and can basically be any Toneprint pedal. I have a nice HoF Hall Reverb, Flashback 2 2290 delay, Corona Trichorus, and Brainwaves dual pitch detune. The only bad thing is I can only use 1 a a time. The Mimic is cool also.

my friend has the plethora and really likes it too.
i had the tc viscous vibe and liked combining it with a vintage eh small clone for univibe sounds.

for 2290 users/lovers out there, here’s a very cool website with tons of useful info. i’ve contributed some product brochure scans in the downloads section:

https://tc2290.com/home.htm

 

[Shask]

my friend has the plethora and really likes it too.
i had the tc viscous vibe and liked combining it with a vintage eh small clone for univibe sounds.

for 2290 users/lovers out there, here’s a very cool website with tons of useful info. i’ve contributed some product brochure scans in the downloads section:

https://tc2290.com/home.htm

It is interesting, because this makes it sound like the original 2290 rack is not analog dry though:


TIP:
If you decide to use the TC 2290 in a parallel setup, remember to kill the dry sound throughput to avoid phase issues. This can be done by setting each preset's Direct Volume to 0, or globally by setting the Special Number 17 to 1 (volume control is then controlled solely from the Output Volume pane keypad). However, be aware that if you are using any of the TC 2290's 5 effects loops, these effects are now also running in parallel and may not operate as expected; the effects loops do come directly after the TC 2290's input, so will be fed with a direct signal irrespective of the Direct Volume settings for preset or global, but their effect will still be blended with the direct signal after output from the TC 2290, which may cause problems for compressors, fuzz, distortion / overdrive, wah, etc.


However, the block diagram in the manual kind of looks like there is a signal that does not go through A/D/A.

 

[mentoneman]

Man, hell of a set up. Yeah, the IE4 thick fusion tone is the one that keeps me after an IE4. Thick liquid fusion tone gets me every time.

I’ve even considered getting one of the Eg 3/4 modules for my Synergy, but the originals are hard to come by and the modder that does that model (can’t remember if it’s Salvation or Jaided Faith) requires a donor module.

With all that, if I was to pull the trigger, probably wouldn’t be that much more expensive to get an IE4, or least a couple channels of it custom built into a standalone preamp.

I’ve thought about this way too much LOL

Dave Friedman introduced me to the IE4 when he was located at Andy Brauer and was the west coast rep for Egnater. I got to play it in his office and loved it, but ended up with the TOL 100 head with the TOS mod (Tone of Snider—-ask our very own forum brother @tonedog for more info about that!!) done by Bruce.


“Key Features
- 100 watts into 4, 8, or 16 ohms
- Select channels via MIDI, standard control jacks, front panel touch
buttons or optional four button EG4 footswitch
- Four uniquely voiced channels
- Channel One - High headroom, sparkling clean
- Channel Two - Vintage blues - Texas style
- Channel Three - British stock to hot rodded - Blues Breakers to Van
Halen's 1st
- Channel Four - Ultimate gain and sustain
- Series/Parallel effects loop with return level control
- Slave out with level control for driving external effects/power amp
- Rich, 3-spring vintage reverb
- EL34 power tubes
- The Tone Of Life
The Controls
The TOL100 Features two separate sets of tone controls for Bass, Mid, Treble
and Presence. Channels one and two, each with their own Gain and Master
control, feature a three position Bright switch for extra clarity. Channels
three and four, each also with their own Gain and Master control, feature a
three position Voicing switch for more tonal manipulation. The master or
output section features controls for Master Volume, Effect Level (for effect
loop return), Presence, Density and Reverb.
The Guts
The TOL100's tone begins with six burning 12AX7 preamp tubes to provide the
ultimate tonal variations. The TOL100 also boasts a tube buffered effect
loop, slave out, DC tube heaters and a full ground plane to insure quiet
operation. a classic Plexi style output transformer and EL34 output tubes
contribute to the warm tone and rich harmonics. MIDI Compatible
The TOL100 also offers the ability to connect directly to MIDI foot
controllers or other MIDI devices without the need for extra switching
systems via the MIDI In/Thru jacks.
The Reverb
The TOL100 features a three-spring vintage reverb tank for the ultimate lush
sounding reverb.
The Personality
The TOL100 is the definitive players masterpiece. It's capable of providing
an amazing array of tones with four uniquely voiced channels.

The TOS (Tone of Snider) Modification
The new voicing switch adds a mid cut and more mid cut, added gain, and
added low end. You will be able to do death crunch with the more mid cut,
cranking the gain, treble, presence and bass and turning down the mids. Or
with the mid cut position have a balls out killer lead tone. Easy to get the
stock TOL sound in the Vintage setting. This is a great Blues, Rock, Jazz or
Metal amp. 4 channels of sonic bliss.”


i demoed the vai module in my rack and it captures many of the qualities of the IE4/Ch4 but is more modern and less fat sounding. i swear Vai took what he learned tonally from his TOL 100 years and applied them to the Legacy and his module.

i demoed Bruce’s M4 loaded with the EG3/4 at NAMM when he introduced modules to the world that year, and also had my friend’s M4 loaded with the EG5 module at my place.

the IE4 Ch 4 still wins.

but i bet if you found the right boost pedal to use with it you could get either module very close.

 

[mentoneman]

It is interesting, because this makes it sound like the original 2290 rack is not analog dry though:


TIP:
If you decide to use the TC 2290 in a parallel setup, remember to kill the dry sound throughput to avoid phase issues. This can be done by setting each preset's Direct Volume to 0, or globally by setting the Special Number 17 to 1 (volume control is then controlled solely from the Output Volume pane keypad). However, be aware that if you are using any of the TC 2290's 5 effects loops, these effects are now also running in parallel and may not operate as expected; the effects loops do come directly after the TC 2290's input, so will be fed with a direct signal irrespective of the Direct Volume settings for preset or global, but their effect will still be blended with the direct signal after output from the TC 2290, which may cause problems for compressors, fuzz, distortion / overdrive, wah, etc.


However, the block diagram in the manual kind of looks like there is a signal that does not go through A/D/A.

it is confusing/unintuitive without the manual and schematic to explain!

 

[mentoneman]

experimental clean tone rig from 2013

fender strat maple neck w/kinman AVN-59 middle-seymour tb-4 bridge

tone press compressor->tc1210=korg dl8000r chorus/delay=yamaha spx2000 symphonic=to soundcraft spirit folio mixer

aux out to lexicon pcm 80 micropitch/verb

DI to Mac G5

 

[GuitarVacation]

Dave Friedman introduced me to the IE4 when he was located at Andy Brauer and was the west coast rep for Egnater. I got to play it in his office and loved it, but ended up with the TOL 100 head with the TOS mod (Tone of Snider—-ask our very own forum brother @tonedog for more info about that!!) done by Bruce.


“Key Features
- 100 watts into 4, 8, or 16 ohms
- Select channels via MIDI, standard control jacks, front panel touch
buttons or optional four button EG4 footswitch
- Four uniquely voiced channels
- Channel One - High headroom, sparkling clean
- Channel Two - Vintage blues - Texas style
- Channel Three - British stock to hot rodded - Blues Breakers to Van
Halen's 1st
- Channel Four - Ultimate gain and sustain
- Series/Parallel effects loop with return level control
- Slave out with level control for driving external effects/power amp
- Rich, 3-spring vintage reverb
- EL34 power tubes
- The Tone Of Life
The Controls
The TOL100 Features two separate sets of tone controls for Bass, Mid, Treble
and Presence. Channels one and two, each with their own Gain and Master
control, feature a three position Bright switch for extra clarity. Channels
three and four, each also with their own Gain and Master control, feature a
three position Voicing switch for more tonal manipulation. The master or
output section features controls for Master Volume, Effect Level (for effect
loop return), Presence, Density and Reverb.
The Guts
The TOL100's tone begins with six burning 12AX7 preamp tubes to provide the
ultimate tonal variations. The TOL100 also boasts a tube buffered effect
loop, slave out, DC tube heaters and a full ground plane to insure quiet
operation. a classic Plexi style output transformer and EL34 output tubes
contribute to the warm tone and rich harmonics. MIDI Compatible
The TOL100 also offers the ability to connect directly to MIDI foot
controllers or other MIDI devices without the need for extra switching
systems via the MIDI In/Thru jacks.
The Reverb
The TOL100 features a three-spring vintage reverb tank for the ultimate lush
sounding reverb.
The Personality
The TOL100 is the definitive players masterpiece. It's capable of providing
an amazing array of tones with four uniquely voiced channels.

The TOS (Tone of Snider) Modification
The new voicing switch adds a mid cut and more mid cut, added gain, and
added low end. You will be able to do death crunch with the more mid cut,
cranking the gain, treble, presence and bass and turning down the mids. Or
with the mid cut position have a balls out killer lead tone. Easy to get the
stock TOL sound in the Vintage setting. This is a great Blues, Rock, Jazz or
Metal amp. 4 channels of sonic bliss.”


i demoed the vai module in my rack and it captures many of the qualities of the IE4/Ch4 but is more modern and less fat sounding. i swear Vai took what he learned tonally from his TOL 100 years and applied them to the Legacy and his module.

View attachment 428520

i demoed Bruce’s M4 loaded with the EG3/4 at NAMM when he introduced modules to the world that year, and also had my friend’s M4 loaded with the EG5 module at my place.

View attachment 428522

the IE4 Ch 4 still wins.

but i bet if you found the right boost pedal to use with it you could get either module very close.

Six preamp tubes, yes please LOL.

Excellent info. Having a TOL head, and eventually getting the IE4 for your rack rig of dreams (it's that awesome to me!) says a lot about you recognizing that amp lineage as being the answer for the tone in your head early on (particularly ch4 thick lead tones).

Dude I didn't realize Vai played a TOL for a time, but that makes a lot of sense, especially considering his use of Synergy now.

I really appreciate the Eg module vs. the real deal IE4 comparison info, that tells me exactly what I need to know. I have eyed getting the Vai module, my current favorite (has been for a while) is the Ecstasy module. I do hear a rasp in clips of the Vai OD channel that matches up with your description of not being as fat.

I think I could get the thick fusion tone out of the Vai module with some aggressive EQ settings, and the bassman-ish clean channel matches up with what I go for too.

This post is already too long, I'll shut up now, but I do have an Egnater TOL/IE4 observation that I want to pick your brain on, but I'll save that for another giant lineage post haha.