Complete Overhaul

[PDC]

So, I have been playing for 40 years. (Yes, I am old.) I did the G.I.T. thing in '89 and had what I thought were 'respectable' chops. At that time, I arrived as a complete 'economy' picker: always using downstrokes moving from thicker to thinner strings and always using upstrokes moving from thinner to thicker strings. I could keep up with the Paul Gilbert / Racer-X 3-Note Per String sequences by relying on 'inside' string crossing - and I used mini 'economy' sweeps where strict alternate pickers would have to do the 'outside' string cross. I could fake it pretty well 3 notes per string - but really hit the wall with those blistering 2-note per string Zakk Wylde Pentatonics. I just could never replicate the speed and the percussion of true alternate picking with circular economy picking between 2 strings.

Over the last few months, my technique has steadily declined, despite playing practically every evening with no amp in front of the TV for 60-90 minutes as I always have. For some reason, everything feels awkward, clunky and slow. WTF!!! Well, I'm not playing out these days and I got nothin' but time, so I have decided to dig in and learn proper strict alternate picking.

Today was the first day. I feel like a rote beginner all over again! Even though it feels a little clumsy and slow, I can already tell there is a real advantage to strict alternate picking. I was always SO afraid of making this big a change in my technique when I was young and playing out. I didn't think I could ever afford the extended 'down time' of starting essentially from scratch. But if this leads where I think its leading, I'm gonna have a good laugh at myself and wish I would have tackled this long, long ago.

 

[PDC]

Day 2. This is hard. After 2 days, I cannot do 'outside' alternate picking worth shit. But I have made so many slow, labored repetitions in the last 36 hrs, that my once familiar 'economy' picking between strings is all but gone.

This is the 'no mans land' that I feared: I haven't practiced the new technique near long enough to learn it - but just long enough to effectively 'un-learn' what I was doing before.

I keep telling myself the first 'X' days mean nothing. Work for 30 days and see where things are.

 

[Jack Luminous]

It will take about 3 months to start getting the hang of it if you keep at it every day. I think you could get to reasonable speed within a year or two depending on your commitment. Zakk Wylde two-note per strings runs are still hard to play (for me) after years of practicing. The guy is really fast LOL

You can still do economy picking in the meantime, it's totally compatible with alternate picking. I practice both every day.

 

[PDC]

Thank You!! I will take all the encouragement I can get, for sure. I was always SO afraid to tackle this because of the inevitable period of time when the new method isn't there yet, but the old method is long gone. I finally said 'what the hell' at my age, its not like I am playing out or have any recording dates on my calendar. I've got nothing but time, LOL!!

One thing I will say - I have been mildly OCD about 'shred' technique my whole life and it is amazing how mindless most of my daily practice routine has been. Having to focus on upstrokes / downstrokes / inside vs outside string crossing is mentally challenging in a way that gliding through the old routine hasn't been in a long, long time. I have to think that if nothing else, this level of mandatory focus and concentration on what I am doing has GOT to help somehow!!!

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

So, I have been playing for 40 years. (Yes, I am old.) I did the G.I.T. thing in '89 and had what I thought were 'respectable' chops. At that time, I arrived as a complete 'economy' picker: always using downstrokes moving from thicker to thinner strings and always using upstrokes moving from thinner to thicker strings. I could keep up with the Paul Gilbert / Racer-X 3-Note Per String sequences by relying on 'inside' string crossing - and I used mini 'economy' sweeps where strict alternate pickers would have to do the 'outside' string cross. I could fake it pretty well 3 notes per string - but really hit the wall with those blistering 2-note per string Zakk Wylde Pentatonics. I just could never replicate the speed and the percussion of true alternate picking with circular economy picking between 2 strings.

Over the last few months, my technique has steadily declined, despite playing practically every evening with no amp in front of the TV for 60-90 minutes as I always have. For some reason, everything feels awkward, clunky and slow. WTF!!! Well, I'm not playing out these days and I got nothin' but time, so I have decided to dig in and learn proper strict alternate picking.

Today was the first day. I feel like a rote beginner all over again! Even though it feels a little clumsy and slow, I can already tell there is a real advantage to strict alternate picking. I was always SO afraid of making this big a change in my technique when I was young and playing out. I didn't think I could ever afford the extended 'down time' of starting essentially from scratch. But if this leads where I think its leading, I'm gonna have a good laugh at myself and wish I would have tackled this long, long ago.

Have you considered learning jazz?
I’ve spent the last 5y on a jazz fusion deep dive (bass and guitar) and my playing especially my picking hand has markedly improved. I tabbed this song on UG a few years ago.https://youtu.be/KG7fIFuQTMw?si=KyjC28y1WgfM8F9C

 

[PDC]

That's really a good idea - Jazz - or even some of the speedy country stuff - anything that has some interesting, melodic intervals that will really force my right hand out of familiar, predictable patterns.

I will say - this is day 3 and today I had the experience of feeling everything 'smooth out' for 6 - 8 bars at a time max. And just about the time I am thinking to myself 'wow, that feels pretty good' it literally falls apart under my fingers!! I am telling myself this is like learning to ride a bike: you get going for several feet at a time and as soon as you think about it too much, you start jerking the handle bars left to right and get wobbly again. But at least those precious few instances of feeling kind of 'in the groove' are starting to happen!

I think Jack Luminous is right: at LEAST 3 months / 90 days of really focused work before things really start to gel.

I am honestly really enjoying this as strange as that may sound.

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

That's really a good idea - Jazz - or even some of the speedy country stuff - anything that has some interesting, melodic intervals that will really force my right hand out of familiar, predictable patterns.

I will say - this is day 3 and today I had the experience of feeling everything 'smooth out' for 6 - 8 bars at a time max. And just about the time I am thinking to myself 'wow, that feels pretty good' it literally falls apart under my fingers!! I am telling myself this is like learning to ride a bike: you get going for several feet at a time and as soon as you think about it too much, you start jerking the handle bars left to right and get wobbly again. But at least those precious few instances of feeling kind of 'in the groove' are starting to happen!

I think Jack Luminous is right: at LEAST 3 months / 90 days of really focused work before things really start to gel.

I am honestly really enjoying this as strange as that may sound.

I’m getting into country too. Funny thing is the licks are all the same from jazz to blues to metal to… it’s just how you play em. But note for note identical in concept.

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

 

[SI]

I could fake it pretty well 3 notes per string - but really hit the wall with those blistering 2-note per string Zakk Wylde Pentatonics. I just could never replicate the speed and the percussion of true alternate picking with circular economy picking between 2 strings.

3 note per string blues scale, gonna need long stretchy fingers, but it’s totally doable

See exercises in Paul Gilbert’s intense rock 1

I cannot do 'outside' alternate picking worth shit.

Exercise 1 is phenomenal for outside picking, go slow, don’t blow a tendon

 

[PDC]

That is an awsome tutorial. I would never have known about that had you not posted. Thank You!!! And I am adding #1 to my workout today. Probably add all 6 over time.

 

[Geo]

After 40 years, shredding is not on my radar any more.

Not just because of the physicality but also just doesn't interest me anymore.

Now I try to use less notes that sound better.

 

[Anonymouse]

So, I have been playing for 40 years. (Yes, I am old.) I did the G.I.T. thing in '89 and had what I thought were 'respectable' chops. At that time, I arrived as a complete 'economy' picker: always using downstrokes moving from thicker to thinner strings and always using upstrokes moving from thinner to thicker strings. I could keep up with the Paul Gilbert / Racer-X 3-Note Per String sequences by relying on 'inside' string crossing - and I used mini 'economy' sweeps where strict alternate pickers would have to do the 'outside' string cross. I could fake it pretty well 3 notes per string - but really hit the wall with those blistering 2-note per string Zakk Wylde Pentatonics. I just could never replicate the speed and the percussion of true alternate picking with circular economy picking between 2 strings.

Over the last few months, my technique has steadily declined, despite playing practically every evening with no amp in front of the TV for 60-90 minutes as I always have. For some reason, everything feels awkward, clunky and slow. WTF!!! Well, I'm not playing out these days and I got nothin' but time, so I have decided to dig in and learn proper strict alternate picking.

Today was the first day. I feel like a rote beginner all over again! Even though it feels a little clumsy and slow, I can already tell there is a real advantage to strict alternate picking. I was always SO afraid of making this big a change in my technique when I was young and playing out. I didn't think I could ever afford the extended 'down time' of starting essentially from scratch. But if this leads where I think its leading, I'm gonna have a good laugh at myself and wish I would have tackled this long, long ago.

G.I.T. in 89 cool. What was it like? I wasn't even in a nutsack back then. Have you tried hybrid picking as well? I can't do purely alternate picking as well and that helped me with Paul Gilbert's string skipping stuff. Also, I mean no disrespect giving someone older and more experienced unsolicited advice; but in my limited experience I think practicing electric guitar unamplified isn't good in the long run as I couldn't hear the right pick attack accent/scrape/handling noise that becomes all too apparent when it's time to plug and crank. I ended up working over the same material twice over when I could have just done it on the same cycle (getting the notes out and loud unplugged, getting the notes out and cleanly plugged).

I’m getting into country too. Funny thing is the licks are all the same from jazz to blues to metal to… it’s just how you play em. But note for note identical in concept.

Would you kindly share or highlight a few examples? e.g clips or timestamped YT vids. There's this jazz lick in jazz that has crossed over to fusion of course being an offshoot of jazz in general. Am aware of the huge backbone the 5th fret/1st position A minor pentatonic provides that is shared in blues>jazz>rock>metal guitar idioms but I'd like to hear more specific phrases. I was pretty surprised years back when I was working on Govan's Waves album version that there was a Coleman Hawkin's phrase there but done very very fast and very very shred. I wouldn't be able to pinpoint the time stamp on the Waves track though (had to severely slow it to learn and recognize) or name the specific Hawkin's tune..

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

G.I.T. in 89 cool. What was it like? I wasn't even in a nutsack back then. Have you tried hybrid picking as well? I can't do purely alternate picking as well and that helped me with Paul Gilbert's string skipping stuff. Also, I mean no disrespect giving someone older and more experienced unsolicited advice; but in my limited experience I think practicing electric guitar unamplified isn't good in the long run as I couldn't hear the right pick attack accent/scrape/handling noise that becomes all too apparent when it's time to plug and crank. I ended up working over the same material twice over when I could have just done it on the same cycle (getting the notes out and loud unplugged, getting the notes out and cleanly plugged).

Would you kindly share or highlight a few examples? e.g clips or timestamped YT vids. There's this jazz lick in jazz that has crossed over to fusion of course being an offshoot of jazz in general. Am aware of the huge backbone the 5th fret/1st position A minor pentatonic provides that is shared in blues>jazz>rock>metal guitar idioms but I'd like to hear more specific phrases. I was pretty surprised years back when I was working on Govan's Waves album version that there was a Coleman Hawkin's phrase there but done very very fast and very very shred. I wouldn't be able to pinpoint the time stamp on the Waves track though (had to severely slow it to learn and recognize) or name the specific Hawkin's tune..

Take a listen to Brian Setzer, he makes good use of this concept and fusion.

 

[PDC]

G.I.T. '89 was just unbelievable. The right experience at the right time. Bruce Boulliet was there 2-3 days a week. Paul Gilbert was there at least 4-5 times that year - Mr. Big was brand new and he was pretty busy. Gary Hoey and Marty Friedman were there 2-3 days a week. Russ Parrish just started teaching there my last quarter. And massive props to my class. Easily as intimidated / inspired by the guys sitting on both sides of me in the classroom as the teaching staff. It was a mind bender. And what a time being young, dumb and single in West Hollywood for a year. W. T. F.

But at the end of the year, the bar was just so dam high that when I came back home, it totally changed my measuring stick for what was and was not baseline.

As far as practicing without an amp, you are right. Kei Morioka was teaching there that year (absolute jaw-dropper from Japan) and he was a big proponent of practicing half the time with no amp to expose weaknesses in technique - both left and right hand. And practicing half the time with loads of gain to learn muting and control of open ringing strings.

 

[alund]

G.I.T. '89 was just unbelievable. The right experience at the right time. Bruce Boulliet was there 2-3 days a week. Paul Gilbert was there at least 4-5 times that year - Mr. Big was brand new and he was pretty busy. Gary Hoey and Marty Friedman were there 2-3 days a week. Russ Parrish just started teaching there my last quarter. And massive props to my class. Easily as intimidated / inspired by the guys sitting on both sides of me in the classroom as the teaching staff. It was a mind bender. And what a time being young, dumb and single in West Hollywood for a year. W. T. F.

But at the end of the year, the bar was just so dam high that when I came back home, it totally changed my measuring stick for what was and was not baseline.

As far as practicing without an amp, you are right. Kei Morioka was teaching there that year (absolute jaw-dropper from Japan) and he was a big proponent of practicing half the time with no amp to expose weaknesses in technique - both left and right hand. And practicing half the time with loads of gain to learn muting and control of open ringing strings.

Yea Paul Gilbert was a guest teacher back then. Frank Gambale. Jennifer Batton. Al dimiola (dick). Few others. Dan huff I vaguely remember talking about his 4 rack rigs. My professor who was there Chen or Chan. Cant remember. He did the guitar work on the Simpson’s tv show. I was interested in working out and the night scene. Cool time. Lived on N sycamore Ave. 1990 was a crazy time in guitar history. The change from hair to grunge was in the air..

 

[PDC]

Yea Paul Gilbert was a guest teacher back then. Frank Gambale. Jennifer Batton. Al dimiola (dick). Few others. Dan huff I vaguely remember talking about his 4 rack rigs. My professor who was there Chen or Chan. Cant remember. He did the guitar work on the Simpson’s tv show. I was interested in working out and the night scene. Cool time. Lived on N sycamore Ave. 1990 was a crazy time in guitar history. The change from hair to grunge was in the air..

Damn - we have GOT to know each other! One of my closest friends that year was John Kirk who later plated in Bangalore Choir. He lived on Sycamore and I was at his place a lot that year. I remember when Dan Huff was there for a big open counseling session in the main room. He had parked out front at one of the metered parking places and asked for a volunteer to run out and stick quarters in the meter for him. That was me! I remember he had a black BMW 5 series / 540 maybe? Could have been am ///M5??

 

[alund]

Damn - we have GOT to know each other! One of my closest friends that year was John Kirk who later plated in Bangalore Choir. He lived on Sycamore and I was at his place a lot that year. I remember when Dan Huff was there for a big open counseling session in the main room. He had parked out front at one of the metered parking places and asked for a volunteer to run out and stick quarters in the meter for him. That was me! I remember he had a black BMW 5 series / 540 maybe? Could have been am ///M5??

That was a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away. There were so many people who went to that school. I was interested in a couple items…. Money reserve and punanni… I was bad at improving. Oh yeah. Iraq just invaded Kuwait. Crazy time