Considering a Marshall 2203X ............

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The wangs sounded better in that clip. Honestly guys, I don't agree... Good iron can be found in various places and if you use good caps and resistors, it's going to compete. " better" comes down to opinion and how all the parts sound together in a particular amp.
I understand your point; but for many including me the differences in a clone vs the real deal, while small to you and others to my ear it’s huge. I played many Ceriatone clones over the years that I’d find at music go round for example. While close there’s something in the high end of those amps that I don’t care for. Marshalls don’t have that. I’ve also played a Fargen clone and same thing, close but there are differences.
 
I understand your point; but for many including me the differences in a clone vs the real deal, while small to you and others to my ear it’s huge. I played many Ceriatone clones over the years that I’d find at music go round for example. While close there’s something in the high end of those amps that I don’t care for. Marshalls don’t have that. I’ve also played a Fargen clone and same thing, close but there are differences.

so what do we think makes Marshall's so different? Is it back to power transformer and OT? If a Marshall blows a transformer, is there any way to get a replacement? I'd then think that some of these guys getting transformer wound based on the classic Marshall spec would be right in the sonic ballpark.

I think something more sinister... I think that people want to see MARSHALL on an amp and it makes them play better or feel more confident in the end product. I know this because I think this way too. I like having a real Marshall. It feels more legit. But it doesn't sound more legit to my ear. Now I am putting it up against the Classic Tone transformer I have in my clone. Maybe the OT is just that good. But if there are 5 amps in a row and they all sound more or less the same, I too would buy a Marshall just so it says Marshall. :p
 
so what do we think makes Marshall's so different? Is it back to power transformer and OT? If a Marshall blows a transformer, is there any way to get a replacement? I'd then think that some of these guys getting transformer wound based on the classic Marshall spec would be right in the sonic ballpark.

I think something more sinister... I think that people want to see MARSHALL on an amp and it makes them play better or feel more confident in the end product. I know this because I think this way too. I like having a real Marshall. It feels more legit. But it doesn't sound more legit to my ear. Now I am putting it up against the Classic Tone transformer I have in my clone. Maybe the OT is just that good. But if there are 5 amps in a row and they all sound more or less the same, I too would buy a Marshall just so it says Marshall. :p
I can’t put my finger on it; but my ear can tell and that’s all I need. Has to be the sum of the parts ie exactly the same parts that Marshall used….exact….and in that case they should sound the same. Or at least damn close. The clones that I’ve played have obvious differences that I hear and can’t overlook. I’m sure there are clones out there that sound very close but the fact remains that all 10 or so that I’ve played over the years just sound different enough that I pass on them and wait until the real deal shows up.
It’s like the SLO clones…nice amps and are similar sounding, but far from identical and really sound closer to an HR 100 than a real deal SLO.
 
I have no idea how Marshall puts the mojo in their transformers but I can tell the difference between a Marshall and a clone pretty quickly.

Does anyone have a clue where they could be purchased for say repair purposes? and are we talking transformers up to a certain year or even today? What do we know about Marshalls transformer production? Time to go down the iron rabbit hole...

For the record I do hear a diff in the new vs old OT in the videos I have watched. Def. smoother or fatter on the Marshall end but are these the results of broken in vs new is another question.
 
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Jet City 800....
I do not like the heater wiring or cable management at all on these. To me it looks like my first build.



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Looks like handwired ( for cheap) is now the rage. Which actually is cool because it is super easy to mod rather than burning the traces on a PCB board.
I was thinking the same thing ...... much easier to mod ..... or just upgrade components ... like those electrlytics
 
Looks like handwired ( for cheap) is now the rage. Which actually is cool because it is super easy to mod rather than burning the traces on a PCB board.
I built a couple 2204's using Headfirst amplification boards and they all turned out great. I modded one to JEL specs. I had my Ceriatone 2204 beside a buddies Marshall 2203 and honestly I preferred the Ceriatone. It wasn't a huge difference just seemed that the TMB controls responded just a bit smoother.
 
I think amplified parts sells the marshall oem replacement transformers.. at least they did at one time.. everything is upside down these days. I totally agree with those saying that a Marshall 2203x sounds different, and to me better, than the clones. I like the bottom and aggression. It seems to be less "round" than a handwired clone using fancy caps etc.
 
I think amplified parts sells the marshall oem replacement transformers.. at least they did at one time.. everything is upside down these days. I totally agree with those saying that a Marshall 2203x sounds different, and to me better, than the clones. I like the bottom and aggression. It seems to be less "round" than a handwired clone using fancy caps etc.
sourcing parts for anything these days is insane ..... I work for a Industrial Distrubution place ......... some parts that use to have a 2 -4 week lead time are out more than 30 + weeks ....
 
I bought a Hammond PT from Antique Elec. when the stock one on my 2203 died. It sounds exactly the same to my ears. I think Mercury wanted $500 and 10 weeks to rewind my dead stock PT.
 
I think amplified parts sells the marshall oem replacement transformers.. at least they did at one time.. everything is upside down these days. I totally agree with those saying that a Marshall 2203x sounds different, and to me better, than the clones. I like the bottom and aggression. It seems to be less "round" than a handwired clone using fancy caps etc.

Might actually be the "budget" parts that are contributing to that sound. The question I still have that I am not sure anyone can answer, is what happens to OT's as they "break in" over time. Do they even? So on one hand people say the "real" Marshall OT sounds fuller. But you are saying the sound is less round.. to me that means the OT is much like the newer ones from Hammond or others that cut and crunch more than the vintage OTs. Then you have the various clones that may use Sozo or other "tone" caps. I know my old 800 has those red chicklet chips and my old Laney AOR had the white chicklet types. I have Mallory and Sozo combined in my clone and it has the kerrang and is aggressive. So call me nuts but part of me is still on the eyes vs. ears train. I see the vintage amp or that gold faceplate and I'm like hell yeah! Marshall rules!! But behind a blanket, I don't know what I'd pick.

I actually play my 800 the least. My clone, my Bugera 1960, and the MTS Brahma are equally suited to my 800 and actually better in some cases. I just won't part with the 800 because well..it is a Marshall.

I remember this test from Peavy. It was actually a solid amp, too bad they didn't have much luck with it:

 
Marshall sent me the part number for their speakers namely the V30. I want to say it was Antique electronic supply.
 
Might actually be the "budget" parts that are contributing to that sound. The question I still have that I am not sure anyone can answer, is what happens to OT's as they "break in" over time. Do they even? So on one hand people say the "real" Marshall OT sounds fuller. But you are saying the sound is less round.. to me that means the OT is much like the newer ones from Hammond or others that cut and crunch more than the vintage OTs. Then you have the various clones that may use Sozo or other "tone" caps. I know my old 800 has those red chicklet chips and my old Laney AOR had the white chicklet types. I have Mallory and Sozo combined in my clone and it has the kerrang and is aggressive. So call me nuts but part of me is still on the eyes vs. ears train. I see the vintage amp or that gold faceplate and I'm like hell yeah! Marshall rules!! But behind a blanket, I don't know what I'd pick.

I actually play my 800 the least. My clone, my Bugera 1960, and the MTS Brahma are equally suited to my 800 and actually better in some cases. I just won't part with the 800 because well..it is a Marshall.

I remember this test from Peavy. It was actually a solid amp, too bad they didn't have much luck with it:


I hear you... the whole OT thing is a rabbit hole I went down years ago... my conclusion was that as long as the input impedance matches marshalls original spec, you will have the sound/tone. Apparently, its the most important factor- not whether they used paper vs plastic bobbins etc. So I kinda let it rest there
 
I hear you... the whole OT thing is a rabbit hole I went down years ago... my conclusion was that as long as the input impedance matches marshalls original spec, you will have the sound/tone. Apparently, its the most important factor- not whether they used paper vs plastic bobbins etc. So I kinda let it rest there

Appreciate that post.. I almost went down the rabbit hole completely...
 
I think that impedance was 1.7k ohm... if I'm remembering right. Maybe someone from the tech forum can correct me if I'm wrong
 
You can get the transformers from Antique Electronic Supply. They have Marshall transformers for jcm900 now but they can get them for other models
 
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