Deal gone bad

[MOAAH]

I usually make it a rule to avoid selling things during the summer because it's the busy season and myself and my crew just don't have time. I thought I would have more time last week but with my father having a tumor removed up at Mayo clinic and work just blowing up within a couple days, I grossly under estimated what we would have time to manage. I broke my own rule so I'm very sorry for that.

However, I will NOT apologize for putting my family, my life, my business, and my clients first and foremost BEFORE any purely secondary guitar toy sales on the internet. I stand here publicly and state if you don't like my position on this then don't buy from me.

Just a little advice; If you need a piece of gear to make a show happen, but you're willing to purchase it from an individual, it's not that difficult to state "Hey, I absolutely must have this by Friday..." If that individual can't make your deadline, then buy it from Muscian's Friend. Oh wait, I forgot, even they don't guarantee a ship date or an arrival date. Why? Because shit happens. If Musician's Friend screwed up your show, guess what you'd get? Maybe the shipping price refunded.

I've sold thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars worth of stuff on here and never had a nasty deal. I'll admit there's been a couple slow deals due to my schedule but even then I've always offered to refund shipping, ship overnight at MY cost, or whatever necessary to make it right with the buyer. Until now, I cannot remember a single deal where the buyer started swearing and name calling within the first few messages..

I am retained by a number of my clients, so when an event wasn't going as planned there was nothing I could do to leave for home. I apologized to smdb a couple of times, but it didn't matter because he already made up his mind. He can obviously dish out attitude but clearly doesn't know how to cope when it comes right back. The immediate turning point for me was the fact that after he read that I was a couple days behind, he could have asked me to ship it overnight, which I would have gladly paid for so he would have it for his show on Saturday. But instead he chose to go ape shit first and ask for his money back. Rcm, moaah, rlord, ultron, and probably a few others had NO problem noticing what I noticed - A buyer that's rude, impatient, and the list goes on. It's no different than standing in line at the bank or boarding a plane, once the swearing & name calling starts, good luck getting anything except being handed your hat.

Even after all the unnecessary drama I have no problem publicly apologizing because, well, I'm a big boy and accept that shit happens. As I informed you already, Paypal doesn't work from my phone, so I instructed my shop guy to log in and refund your money. I'm sorry the deal didn't go as well as we had hoped and I wish you luck with finding another piece.

Now we have the other side of the story.
Klark, no one knows better than me as to how dealing on line can get outta hand real fast, one reason why I refuse to do it ever again.
BUT, when you say, "I am retained by a number of my clients" you seem to forget that at that moment he was your client too, if even for just one sale, however small.
Also, it was your duty to contact him and explain why you were late, but he had to contact you, not good.
Lastly, yeah he seems to have exploded but you returned it in kind. It is always best to retain the high ground, no matter what an AH some folks can be. Like what may seem like a toy to you ain't no toy to him. And ~300 may not seem much to some but to others it's a big deal.
I'm glad you posted and even more glad you're going to refund his money. Live and learn man, live and learn.

 

[colimofsmoke]

I think the seller didn't handle it as well as he could have, but sending an angry message an hour after the first one is maybe a little harsh. Maybe the guy is at work or commuting home or picking up his kids and not near a computer for a few hours?

 

[marvcus]

...but with my father having a tumor removed up at Mayo clinic...

I don't care about the other drama. Praying for your dad and family, man. That's all.

 

[mystixboi]

I usually make it a rule to avoid selling things during the summer because it's the busy season and myself and my crew just don't have time. I thought I would have more time last week but with my father having a tumor removed up at Mayo clinic and work just blowing up within a couple days, I grossly under estimated what we would have time to manage. I broke my own rule so I'm very sorry for that.

However, I will NOT apologize for putting my family, my life, my business, and my clients first and foremost BEFORE any purely secondary guitar toy sales on the internet. I stand here publicly and state if you don't like my position on this then don't buy from me.

Just a little advice; If you need a piece of gear to make a show happen, but you're willing to purchase it from an individual, it's not that difficult to state "Hey, I absolutely must have this by Friday..." If that individual can't make your deadline, then buy it from Muscian's Friend. Oh wait, I forgot, even they don't guarantee a ship date or an arrival date. Why? Because shit happens. If Musician's Friend screwed up your show, guess what you'd get? Maybe the shipping price refunded.

I've sold thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars worth of stuff on here and never had a nasty deal. I'll admit there's been a couple slow deals due to my schedule but even then I've always offered to refund shipping, ship overnight at MY cost, or whatever necessary to make it right with the buyer. Until now, I cannot remember a single deal where the buyer started swearing and name calling within the first few messages..

I am retained by a number of my clients, so when an event wasn't going as planned there was nothing I could do to leave for home. I apologized to smdb a couple of times, but it didn't matter because he already made up his mind. He can obviously dish out attitude but clearly doesn't know how to cope when it comes right back. The immediate turning point for me was the fact that after he read that I was a couple days behind, he could have asked me to ship it overnight, which I would have gladly paid for so he would have it for his show on Saturday. But instead he chose to go ape shit first and ask for his money back. Rcm, moaah, rlord, ultron, and probably a few others had NO problem noticing what I noticed - A buyer that's rude, impatient, and the list goes on. It's no different than standing in line at the bank or boarding a plane, once the swearing & name calling starts, good luck getting anything except being handed your hat.

Even after all the unnecessary drama I have no problem publicly apologizing because, well, I'm a big boy and accept that shit happens. As I informed you already, Paypal doesn't work from my phone, so I instructed my shop guy to log in and refund your money. I'm sorry the deal didn't go as well as we had hoped and I wish you luck with finding another piece.

Now we have the other side of the story.
Klark, no one knows better than me as to how dealing on line can get outta hand real fast, one reason why I refuse to do it ever again.
BUT, when you say, "I am retained by a number of my clients" you seem to forget that at that moment he was your client too, if even for just one sale, however small.
Also, it was your duty to contact him and explain why you were late, but he had to contact you, not good.
Lastly, yeah he seems to have exploded but you returned it in kind. It is always best to retain the high ground, no matter what an AH some folks can be. Like what may seem like a toy to you ain't no toy to him. And ~300 may not seem much to some but to others it's a big deal.
I'm glad you posted and even more glad you're going to refund his money. Live and learn man, live and learn.

I agree with this post... both sides could have handled the communication better... that's the bottom line.

I've been buying and selling since 1995 and if I sent $300 to someone and they didn't ship within the first few days(especially after they said that they would ship the following day), I would have probably done the same thing as the OP

 

[threadkiller]

See, this is what Headlessdeadguy was wanting. A good ole' fashioned Rig Talk shitstorm. He was just a few weeks too early.

 

[NS10Fan]

A little bit wrong in column A and B on this one. I hate getting up 20 minutes before work to ship something out someone has bought, but there's this nagging guilt that bugs me if I have someone's dough. I'll wind up doing it...especially on this forum! It scares me when someone has another's cash, and isn't bothered for 2-3 days to send out a quick message explaining things. 48 hours is a lot of time when it takes 2 minutes to send a heads-up. Life comes fast, but I can generally come up with 2 minutes regardless. That being said, I don't like the 0-60 in 3 days attitude from people either. So what wins in this situation? Communication. It's a shame musicians aren't better at it.

 

[rupe]

And, this whole "I was expecting it to be here by the weekend without question!"....is totally irrational. Like the other dude said, you are dealing with an individual, not a business...you should not expect a tight deadline.

What is irrational about expecting it to be shipped when the seller said he would ship it (which would subsequently lead to it being available for the weekend)?

Why should a buyer not expect a tight deadline when the seller gave one?

I'm really curious to see how you justify your own words

it's all about being flexible, and not losing your shit when a piece of gear is a day or two late.

Exactly. Not sure what you are confused about rupe? "I'm really curious to see how you justify your own words " Well rupe, ...is it really that much of a mystery to you??? Nothing wrong with the buyer expecting it to be shipped with the seller said he would....but that whole part about "subsequently lead to it being available for the weekend." Where exactly do you get that? Where is that written in stone? If the guy ships it on Wed, and the package doesn't arrive by Saturday....would you expect foul play to be involved and thereafter begin a full investigation? Gimmie a break. If the buyer really, really, really, wants to have it by Saturday, then the buyer should pay for next-day shipping to ensure that it arrives on time. And, if the seller doesn't get it ship, then yeah.....the seller would be solely to blame. As it is, the seller is solely to blame in this instance anyways, as he never shipped it. But, let's say he did on Wed. and the buyer never received it by Saturday. Would your world come to an end? To answer your question: "Why should a buyer not expect a tight deadline when the seller gave one?" For one, he did NOT give a tight deadline for when the item would arrive, he simply said he'd ship it on a specific day.(which I know he didn't, but is beside the point I'm trying to make) So yeah, a buyer is free to expect an arrival time, but should not LIVE or DIE by that said time. There are variables to everything. It's like that old saying, "SHIT HAPPENS!"....because, it occassionally does. Do you understand now? Or, are you still having trouble?

I'm sure the buyer has an idea of how long it typically takes something to get to his place when being shipped...no guarantees that it would have gotten there but that was the likely scenario given what the buyer stated.
It's not about the "world coming to an end" or being flexible...the issue here is solely about the seller not doing what he said he would. If he provided a tracking number that showed he shipped it when he said he would and yet it didn't arrive on time, do you really believe the OP would have bitched about it to the seller? I don't think so.
(Try that "flexible" or "shit happens" approach when you're late on rent or a loan payment and see how well that methodology flies in the real world...you can save that stoner hippie bullshit attitude for your buddy who hasn't paid you for the 1/4 ounce of Tangerine Dream you fronted him last week )

Who said anything about an arrival guarantee? We're talking about a "departure guarantee" that MOST LIKELY would have led to the desired outcome.

And when "SHIT HAPPENS" its up to the seller to communicate and discuss the situation...not ignore it and assume that its cool by the buyer. How the buyer behaved is irrelevant. Whether he overreacted or not is purely a matter of opinion and had no effect on the seller's ability to do what he said he would.

Do you understand now? Or are you still having trouble? This is the real world Sparky, not a place where everyone gets to do things on their own time and in their own way after an agreement is made and money changes hands. If you're not prepared to deliver, don't advertise a sale. If something comes up, discuss it with the buyer. Done.

 

[steve_k]

And when "SHIT HAPPENS" its up to the seller to communicate and discuss the situation...not ignore it and assume that its cool by the buyer. How the buyer behaved is irrelevant. Whether he overreacted or not is purely a matter of opinion and had no effect on the seller's ability to do what he said he would.

Do you understand now? Or are you still having trouble? This is the real world Sparky, not a place where everyone gets to do things on their own time and in their own way after an agreement is made and money changes hands. If you're not prepared to deliver, don't advertise a sale. If something comes up, discuss it with the buyer. Done.

Yep.....well said. We have certain minimum standards to follow over here

Pay money -> Ship stuff.....unless a delay is agreed upon by both parties.

Simple

 

[smdb]

Klark, We all have problems. I am sorry about your father. I just buried one of my best friends Monday who died from a brain tumor.. I have been on edge, I did admit to being impatient several times. BUT.... I am not going to have you talk to me the way you did.

Still waiting for my money.............. 9 days after you recieved it........

 

[rlord1974]

Sparky!

Brilliant!

 

[Tone Zone]

(Try that "flexible" or "shit happens" approach when you're late on rent or a loan payment and see how well that methodology flies in the real world...you can save that stoner hippie bullshit attitude for your buddy who hasn't paid you for the 1/4 ounce of Tangerine Dream you fronted him last week )

It's not methodology, it's REALITY. WTF do you get this "stoner hippie bullshit attitude" from? It could very well happened to YOU, or anyone else. Example: A buyer pays you. As you begin to leave work, you plan to go ship the buyer's item....then you get a call from your wife telling you that your daughter/son has been badly injured and are in the hospital. I got news for you "Sparky", ....that item you were suppose to ship is going to be the last thing going through your mind. This just one example, but you get the point (or you should?) As I said before, I've personally ALWAYS got a buyer's shipment off when I said I would, and always plan to in the future. But, it's not out of the realm of possibility that such a situation like this could occur to me...or you for that matter.

Who said anything about an arrival guarantee? We're talking about a "departure guarantee" that MOST LIKELY would have led to the desired outcome.

Uh,....no we were not. I commented on what the dude said about needing it for the weekend (with the original idea of it being shipped on Wed. And, then you questioned what I said. What is this "MOST LIKELY" shit? There is NO guarantee that it would arrive by the weekend. The seller could ship it just before they close, but still the same day he said he would. Then you've got how far they are apart as far as location. The shipper could make a mistake, delaying the shipment by a day..etc. It'd just be stupid as hell to assume without question that the item you bought (and was shipped on Wed.) would arrive by Saturday without fail. Get real.

And, I'll say it again....if I bought an item from a seller and he told me that he'd ship it on Monday, but waited till Tuesday to contact me again to inform me that he wasn't able to ship it Monday, but was shipping it off Tuesday........Well, I'm obviously different from you, because I wouldn't flip the fuck out. Because in the scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal if I get the item a day or even two days later than I should have. It's just not worth making a fuss over. Again, I'm not excusing what the seller did in this thread, because it was more than a couple of days. But, if I was in the buyer's shoes...once I finally got a hold of the seller and he apologized and said he'd ship it.....I would not say a word, just knowing that once I receive the item....I'd never do business with him again and be done with it.

 

[Tone Zone]

Sparky!

Brilliant!

Oh, yeah....real brilliant.....real original.

 

[rlord1974]

Chill. It's a funny term. Don't go gettin' your knickers in a knot!

Everyone is so on edge around here lately. WTF gives?!

 

[bananaladonpcp]

Everyone is so on edge around here lately. WTF gives?!

I've noticed that the majority of all the threads on here have been really negative as of late.....

I think it's time for alittle break...

-Alex

 

[smdb]

I just want my money back. That's all.

 

[billm408]

Everyone is so on edge around here lately. WTF gives?!

No shit! Maybe an end of summer thing. Or PMS or solar flares or global warming or PTSD or OMFG it's Armageddon and we're all gonna die!!

 

[MOAAH]

Klark, We all have problems. I am sorry about your father. I just buried one of my best friends Monday who died from a brain tumor.. I have been on edge, I did admit to being impatient several times. BUT.... I am not going to have you talk to me the way you did.

Still waiting for my money.............. 9 days after you recieved it........

Sorries followed by a 'BUT' are about as useless as tits on a bore.
That said, I'm surprized everyone seems to equate some sick father story as fact or as an excuse to prolong this ordeal so long. Sounds like total BS as in cancer does not just appear over night, if his dad is in hospital he's known of the illness for at least a while, and funny how it affected a small interwebz sale and not his alledged big band tour.
At this stage Klark has run out of excuses IMNSHO, and smdb, I hope you are following through with your complaint to paypal.

 

[Tone Zone]

Chill. It's a funny term. Don't go gettin' your knickers in a knot!

Everyone is so on edge around here lately. WTF gives?!

I just didn't think it was all that funny myself. But, it's all good.

 

[rlord1974]

Chill. It's a funny term. Don't go gettin' your knickers in a knot!

Everyone is so on edge around here lately. WTF gives?!

I just didn't think it was all that funny myself. But, it's all good.

 

[Bob Savage]

But, it's all good.

I hear it all the time and despise this saying. It's NOT ALL GOOD. Whoever started saying it should be smacked around a bit to see how good that is.