Death "Symbolic" tone

[barnesjd]

How did Chuck Schuldiner (and whoever he hired that week) get their tone on Death "Symbolic"? All I've been able to find on Google is some amp modeling crap and this interview where he says he used the same amps as in the previous album, "Individual Thought Patterns" (not much more luck on that album except this discussion on whether or not he used a chorus).

I'm mostly interested in his rhythm tone. It's so in your face and aggressive, yet incredibly clear and articulate. It's like a clean distortion, if that makes sense. No mud whatsoever.

Ideas anyone?

 

[cardinal]

BC Rich Stealth (I think maple neck through) with a Dimarzio X2N into a 100 watt Marshall Valvestate head (I forget which, Google should turn it up).

 

[stuh84]

Marshall 8100 is the ticket to that. Some of the first Valvestates, he was quite famous for using them.

Here's a video of one being used to get a Death tone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSf--G0wOjg

 

[barnesjd]

Is it still ok to admit liking it now that I know it wasn't an all-tube amp?

 

[Steinmetzify]

Is it still ok to admit liking it now that I know it wasn't an all-tube amp?

Chuck ALWAYS gets a pass, dude. No worries.

 

[dooredge]

Equipment[per Wikipedia]

Schuldiner's primary guitar throughout most of his career was the B.C. Rich Stealth model, an extremely rare model available only through the BC Rich custom shop until 2008, when it was released to the public as the Chuck Schuldiner Tribute Stealth.(The stealth was also released as an N.J. model in the 80's and 90's, but was extremely rare) Prior to this, he used a BC Rich Mockingbird. Most of Schuldiner's sound came from a DiMarzio X2N pickup placed in the bridge. During the (In)Human Tour of the World (1991–92), Schuldiner briefly endorsed a small Wisconsin custom guitar company called Axtra, who worked with him on designs, though he still insisted on using his BC Rich during filming of the Lack of Comprehension video in September 1991 in Orlando.

The amp he used towards the end of his career was a Marshall Valvestate (Model 8100) amp head and Valvestate 4x12 speaker cabinets on Individual Thought Patterns as well as the ITP tour, and eventually started using Marshall 1960 cabs. Before that he used various equipment including Randall RG100ES heads and Randall cabinets, and on the (In)Human Tour of the World he used a small GK 250ML miked up, despite having hollow 4x12 stacks 'for show'.

 

[barnesjd]

The amp he used towards the end of his career was a Marshall Valvestate (Model 8100) amp head and Valvestate 4x12 speaker cabinets on Individual Thought Patterns as well as the ITP tour, and eventually started using Marshall 1960 cabs.

I read that entry BEFORE I read that he used the same amp as on Individual Thought Patterns

 

[soc_monki]

i want to find one of those Valvestates just so i can have that tone. Dont care that it wasnt tube...it was just an awesome tone, and perfect for what he was doing, and for a lot of metal tones.

 

[putnut77]

Ive owned both the Marshall 8100 and the BC Rich Tribute stealth, the way too expensive American made one. Good god does that guitar sound bad. Chuck managed to make it so awesome.

 

[barnesjd]

(...) Dont care that it wasnt tube...it was just an awesome tone (...)

And that's all that really matters.

 

[barnesjd]

Ive owned both the Marshall 8100 and the BC Rich Tribute stealth, the way too expensive American made one. Good god does that guitar sound bad. Chuck managed to make it so awesome.

Well, it's like my uncle taught me... the MOST important factor in tone is the hands.

 

[soc_monki]

(...) Dont care that it wasnt tube...it was just an awesome tone (...)

And that's all that really matters.

exactly!

 

[Shask]

Sounds like you found your answer. Yep, Marshall 8100. It is also known for the Prong sound, like on Snap your fingers, Snap your neck.


Earlier stuff was a JCM800 and Boss SD-1.

 

[barnesjd]

(...) It is also known for the Prong sound, like on Snap your fingers, Snap your neck. (...)

Whoa... I have completely forgotten about those guys. I remember liking that song but thinking the rest of the album was boring as hell. Bear in mind I was death metal obsessed back then.

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't sound too good if you're not playing death metal and/or are not playing in a band situation though, IMO

 

[petejt]

Marshall 8100 is the ticket to that. Some of the first Valvestates, he was quite famous for using them.

Here's a video of one being used to get a Death tone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSf--G0wOjg

That sounds killer. Very crunchy, which is something missing from a lot of newer metal tones.

The only things missing in the tone are that heavy low-mid growl and that Marshally "grind", like in this live clip of Death from 1987:

 

[Anonymous]

i want to find one of those Valvestates just so i can have that tone. Dont care that it wasnt tube...it was just an awesome tone, and perfect for what he was doing, and for a lot of metal tones.

i had one

hated it. i actually used a preamp in front of it and just used it for power. it was a backup head i got for 100$, so i didnt pass it up lol.

there's some studio mixing magic goin on with that amp too...they're horrible sounding.

 

[barnesjd]

there's some studio mixing magic goin on with that amp too...they're horrible sounding.

That's one thing that I always wonder about when I hear good tone on an album. I wouldn't call it "magic" per se, but it's definitely doctored up after it leaves the speakers.

Which goes to a theory I have... every guitarist should have three tone packages: 1. live band, 2. studio, 3. solo (as in, playing by yourself).

 

[Anonymous]

there's some studio mixing magic goin on with that amp too...they're horrible sounding.

That's one thing that I always wonder about when I hear good tone on an album. I wouldn't call it "magic" per se, but it's definitely doctored up after it leaves the speakers.

Which goes to a theory I have... every guitarist should have three tone packages: 1. live band, 2. studio, 3. solo (as in, playing by yourself).

absolutely.

the sad part is, since it was so cheap, i used it a lot at practice with a zoom unit in front of it, and it sounded wayyyy tighter. it just didnt have the tone i thought it should....verry ragged solid states sounding, and, this coming from someone who LOVED solid state distortion at the time.

 

[Bloodrock]

I've still got an old 8100 Valvestate. Great heavy metal amp, way underrated in it's time. Tight, aggressive, tons of gain. Lots of expensive tube amps still don't sound as good for metal IMO. I like the dry/tight tone of SS amps though. Tubes are a waste in a high gain amp if all you're after is tons of fizzy preamp tube gain to go chug chug chug on.