Diezel Herbert Or Bogner XTC 101B to run with VHT UL?

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VESmedic

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In the midst of building my guitar rig, I can't decide which of these amps I would like to use in conjunction with my beloved UL. The UL is the ultimate tone machine for me, but I LOVE the idea of having a 2 amp guitar rig, to run together, seperate, or whatever I choose at the present time. I spent about 2 hrs the other day with a 101B, and was FLOORED. Now, anyone who has been to guitar center and played an amp in one of there "amp rooms", knows what I mean when I say that EVERYTHING sounds good in those rooms. But the 101B through a Bogner 4x12, was just the biggest fattest sounding amp in the world. Even my GF said compared to the Engl Blackmore in the room, "it just sounds so much bigger". The XTC, just had TONE for days, just gobs of it. Everything sounded amazing on it, you couldn't find a bad sound in it. THe clean, and in between tones were second to none ,and in fact, this is one of the biggest reasons I am considering it. It was just very " earthy" and "woody" sounding, hard to explain. I also thought channel 3 was just ridiculously huge sounding, and felt like I was getting hit in the chest with every note. It got MUCH heavier than the preconceived notions you will find about it on the internet too. Not that I need it to since I have a UL, but its nice to know its there. I think the combo between these 2 amps running together through 2 seperate 4x12's would be RIDICULOUS. However, being so vastly different sounding/feeling, not sure how well they would blend. At the very least, I could cover so many more sounds and feeling with the 101b that can't be had with the UL. Good tool for my arsenal I suppose.

Diezel Herbert: Haven't played one in a few years unfortunately, but from what I remember, it was equally as mindblowing, but in a different way. It seemed very "polished" and just "hi fi" sounding, which are common terms you will find on the forums, but it DOES seem to be true: Thats the best way to describe there sound. Compared to the XTC, it is just very "clean" sounding, much closer to an Engl vibe (not saying it sounds like an Engl) than the Bogner, or even the extremely raw VHT UL. But again, the versitility, and the sheer awesomeness of the sounds that come out of this thing, could very well bring on the apocolypse as we know it, when paired with a VHT UL.

Thoughts? Do I go with something completely different sounding such as the 101B for a different flavor/versitility, or go for the diezel?

Other notable amps in the back of my mind:

Mark 5 ( probably too similar to the UL)
Uberschall (huge low end muscle paired with the UL's bite, could be insane. but again, not exactly what I'm going for)
anything else you folks throw out there :d
 
I think one of the best 2 amp tones I've heard was a Vh4 and an UL. The Herbert and UL sounds great together too.
 
I ran my UL and Herbert together for a bit and it was monstrous! Such a killer combination! But hell, even the Vintage Modern I had sounded fantastic with the Herbert.
 
I'm a Herbert owner, so potentially biased, but actually I'd say you just need to ask yourself whether you want a brutal, monstrous amp (less tight than the UL, but more "massive") which gives you lots of options, or a more Marshally, vintage amp that can effectively do anything except the br00talz.

If it were me and I already owned an UL I'd go for a 101b. Then again, I have a VH4 and a Herbie...*sigh*

-C
 
Spirit I'm with ya...that's kind of my philosophy as well...the UL does pretty much everything and the 101b does everything ( some would probably say "better) as well...but then again so does the herbert in a cleaner more polished kind of way doesn't it? Guess it really just depends on the flavor I want...the xtc was just a tone monster though, LOVED it. Anyone in the orlando area know of a herbert lying around I could play? :D on a different note...with as many power tube combos u can run in the herbert, what is everyones favorite combos and why? How would kt88s and el34s sound in a herbert? 6l6s and kt88s???
 
My favoirte tube combo in the Herbert with 2 KT88s/6550s and 4 el34s. Never did try it with 6L6s.
 
Bump...anyone else?

I went back today and played the Engl Blackmore...God what a great sounding head. Played it through a bogner 4x12 with V30's...SICK!!! It was just brutal...now im confused :(. The Bogner still is up there but man that thing sounded GREAT! Anymore info on the herbert or blackmore?
 
What kind of music are you playing? Are you playing a lot of lead? Are you mainly a rhythm/riff player?

I have no experience with the Blackmore.

On the other hand, I've owned the UL, 101B and Herbert all at the same time. I used them for different things though. I have no idea how much the newer Herberts have changed in tone in comparison to the 2nd version that was released around late 2004. The one I had was kind of softer in the highs. The UL would sit on top of it and every other amp I ran with it in a band mix, but the Herbert filled out the lows. It just didn't cut very well. Maybe the newer ones are better at that. Until you're in a room with a hard hitting drummer, you just don't know, as the environment is completely different than a bedroom.

The 101B is pretty cool. It wouldn't be my first choice for metal, but it can pull it off with a dash of Plexi on steroids kind of flavor. The 101B and SLO are my favorite high gain amps. After that, it's the UL, as the UL is just extremely aggressive. The 101B blends more of the old school Marshall in with the modded Marshall thing. The Ecstasy Classic is less Plexi and more JCM 800 because it has more filtering in the power section. In other words, the Classic has more teeth, but the 101B has more bloom. They still sound similar.

If I were in your situation, I would mainly sit down and figure out the exact reason why I want another amp. If you're wanting it to compliment the UL in a dual amp setup, look at what mates best with it in regard to your own preference. If you're looking for something that pulls off a completely different area, again, it's a preference thing.

Guessing on the most flexible amp with implementation with the UL at the same time, I would probably get the Herbert. If you want more of an old-school, hard rock alternative, the 101B would be the ticket. I have no idea about the Blackmore.

Best of luck!



Dale
 
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Dale B thanks for all the good info. Your point about the herbert and it getting "lost in the mix" seems to float around the forums quite often, and is something that crossed my mind. The fact that it fills out the lows, and could very well compliment the UL in that respect, is still however, worrying if thats all it would do. A 3000 dollar "bottom end filler outer" isnt exactly financially rational or justifiable in my mind. However, I am sure there are those on the internet that would completely argue your statement all together as well as me agreeing with you...


You are right about preference, and you are correct in my feelings on what I am trying to do. My idea was to have an amplifier that would compliment my UL extremely well when ran together, but provide a different feel, be extremely versitile on its own, and provide a different direction when inspired to create music...get what I am saying? This was the main reason for the 101B and UL idea vs a herbert or blackmore. I am feelling rather "blah" musically these days, and want to explore different avenues and genres, and I feel an amp like the 101B can literally do ANYTHING outside the brootalz ( as mentioned above) and be completely different feeling and sounding than what I have always owned.

INca Roads YOU ARE KILLING ME!!!!!!!!
 
VESmedic":vmw3rwgu said:
INca Roads YOU ARE KILLING ME!!!!!!!!

:lol: :LOL: The whole fun is experimenting
with different amp combinations in a Stereo
set up. I love this Journey and I know exactly
what you're feeling. ;)

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mhenson42":7ybwguxj said:
My favoirte tube combo in the Herbert with 2 KT88s/6550s and 4 el34s. Never did try it with 6L6s.
right now im running 4 el34 and 2 6l6 and it sounds pretty nice, i think im gonna stay with it for a little while.
 
I run my Herbert with all KT88's. WAYYYYYYY better than EL34's were in it. But, I like that ice picky super heavy bottom end that is super tight and ultra clear. It's metal, I'm not interested in the warm "fuzzies" people feel when they rave about EL34 mids. With all '88's, I have no problem drowning any other amp right out of the mix.

I run a VHT CLX in stereo with my Herbert.
 
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