EL84s... which ones?

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I've always been an EL34, and to a lesser extent a 6V6/6L6 guy (have also had 5881 and KT88-tubed amps).

But I'm looking at getting a spare/replacement quad of EL84s for my new H&K Grandmeister (LOVE THIS AMP!!!) and don't have a clue what I should get. I'm mostly looking on Ebay and see Mullard Reissues, Sovteks, Groove Tubes, EHX, Shuguangs, JJs, etc. I've used nearly all of these brands over the years in my various Bogner, VHT, Engl, Marshall, Fender, and other amps. But I just dunno what their offerings are like in terms of EL84s. I know that in previous EL34 amps I've owned, JJs tended to be dark. This amp can be a hair bright, so that might work.... if it holds true for EL84s (which I find to be a bit darker than 6V6s anyways).

Anyways... just looking for some great-sounding EL84s that don't burn out too quick. My Grandmeister runs pretty hot, so I blow a little fan on the back and that seems to keep things cooled-down well.

Also, I've heard that EL84s have shorter lifespans than the bigger bottles. Is this true? I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 that I've had for a couple of years that's got both EL84s and 6V6s in it... and I've had to replace neither so far.
 
I've had very good experiences with JJ's in my VHT PittBull 45. My amp is very bright too which I love about it and the JJ's don't make the amp dark at all in my opinion. I've used Sovteks, which Fryette recommended at one point, and they're what came stock in my amp. They sounded ok but they were already at the end of their life when I got the amp. I immediately put in JJ's and most recently, TAD's. I think the JJ's are pretty hard to beat for longevity. The TAD's I've not yet put through the gigging ringer but they sound great too, a little more 'vintage' I guess.

I think my preference is probably JJ's but I play a broad gamut of really clean to Death Metal. I will typically use 12AT7s in the V1 and/or V2 slots just to keep the preamp gain in check. The JJ's handle the full range and sound great as do the TAD's, but again, I only just re-tubed with the TAD's and haven't given them the torture test so while they sound great, I can't vouch for their durability.

I also get all my tubes from www.ValveQueen.com so they're gonna be above average from the start, right?
 
JJ EL84s have been good to me. El84s do seem to wear faster than the big bottle power tubes, but the jj's have been solid. I got mine from Doug's tubes. Amps are peavey classic 30 and crate v32.

The ei el84 tubes are great, more chime than the jj's, but they are next to impossible to find in matched pair or quad at this point....
 
I have several EL-84 amps, and find that JJs work consistently in most cases, and are reliable. They can be dark, but in several cases that's what I need.

Slick51
 
When I built my first el84 based amp I tried many different types. Best sounding by far were nos bugle boy. The amp was best with nos. out of newer made tubes I found ei to be the longest lasting and better sounding to my ears then all the current production stuff. This was a few yrs ago so ei is no longer in business but if u find some cheap check em out.
 
Some info left out of the above post...what EL-84 amps?

I own a newer VHT (Fryette) Pittbull 45 head/4-10" with the EF86, a Carvin Nomad 1-12" combo, and a Matchless DC-30 that I've separated into the DC-30 cab as a speaker cab, and the chassis into the HC-30 head cab. I run JJs in the first two, but I use real Teslas in the Matchless, along with a GEC EF-86 in ch 2. The Teslas bring out the Matchless chime in spades, but for $150+ per matched quad, they should!

Slick51
 
I'm sorry, the first was an 18 watt based off the Marshall 1974x. I also had a Marshall dsl 401 but the power tube swaps were more noticeable with the 1974x type amp.
 
Thanks for the input guys! Still deciding what tubes to pull the trigger on.

Today I programmed all of my patches on the Grandmeister in banks 1-10 to run at 18 watts, that way they're just running current through two of the power tubes. Banks 11-20 are running the full four power tubes for 36 watts. They are programmed identical to banks 1-10, aside from the power rating. This should extend my power tube life significantly if I just use the higher banks for gigging and do daily practice on the lower banks. Should also run cooler, which should extend both tube and component life. After a while, I can swap the inner two (inactive) tubes with the outer two.

This thing is just so amazingly versatile. If it can stay reliable in the long haul this could be the coolest amp I've ever owned (including all the high-end boutique stuff I've been through). Reliability is the only concern/question for me at this point. It's a winner!
 
I have just ordered Matching 12ax7 3 each Mullards, and Matching EL84 4 each Mullards.
Should be here any Day. I have always loved the sound of Mullards.
I wrote to the Engineers at Huges and Kettner and this is what they said for the 12Ax7's they said TAD, have no Idea what that is, there was a lost in translation thing going on but here is what they said. The Developers liked a Russian tube
to use for the EL84 called a 6P15P. The tubes are cheap from Russia, you can get them for 1 to 5 bucks each by the box.
The Trouble is getting them Matched. So I went to the Tubestore, and picked out 3 12AX7's matched and 4 EL84's All Mullard.
I will post on the tone change after I get them in there. :rock:
I am hoping in changes the tonal characteristics of the amp to a fatter tone of a fender Twin and a Marshall JCM800 Bloom on the distortion. I am sure experimenting with the tubes will make a difference. They said the footprint of the amp is very small and it would not be a good Idea to try and change out components that have to be soldered like Chokes and Transformers.
The more I play with this amp the more I love it, I keep discovering cool things to do. Like saving your power soak settings.

Below is the email I got from the Engineer at Hughes and Kettner.
Hello Terrence,

thanks for your interest in the Grandmeister.

If you want to upgrade in tubes, you can use any kind of 12AX7/ECC83 in the preamp and EL84 in the power amp. There are so many different types, that we can't make any recommendations. You have to try it on your own or read the experience of other users in some forums. Our developers like the Russian type of the 6P15P in the power amp.

For the transformers, we can't make any recommendations. We use custom transformers which will fit to the amp and the sound desing best. Please understand I can't give you the technical data.
The parts in the prototype are top secret :-) Be informed, that there is no big space on the PCB to make any modifications.

Have fun with your amp!
 
Well, my 4 Matched EL84's and 3 Matched 12AX7's showed up when I got home. I bought them online from http://www.thetubestore.com
I preceded to take the Amp apart to get the tubes in. You take out the 4 side screws around the handle and the one screw near the handle not on the glass side. Carefully unhooked the tube securing devices with springs carefully and with a good hold on them, pulled them up and over the tops of the EL84 tubes. I used a tissue to handle the tubes so I would not leave fingerprints or oil on the tubes. Gently wiggled them a little bit, while pulling up and they came right out. I did the first two in the middle because they were coming out as a matching set, and went into the Mullard box as a matching set and marked them with little number 1's. Then did the same for the outside ones as 2 in case I might want to re-use these some day. I reloaded the spring holders. On the 12AX7's two have little clips that are tricky and you could almost easily break a tube with these when you snap them back in place. The third 12AX7 or the first, which ever way you look at it, has a Heat sink that you have to push down and turn to line up to pull off. Then you gently rock the tube and pull and out comes the third one. RULE of thumb when you put them back in make sure they are the same height across the top, that way you know they are all the way in.
Ok, I have replaced with all matching Mullards and boy did the tone warm up. More bottom end and Nice Fender tone on the clean. Unless you had two amps to A/B and not deaf and really know your amps, you would still notice the difference. It sounded so much better. Complete change to when you turn the Presence and Resonance and Tone stack from Bassy to Treble and nice Tonal spectrum differences on the Treble, Mid Bass and The Presence and Resonance. Here are a few pics, Not sure where the pictures went?? Probably some guy in Ethiopia on his computer saying, where did these pictures of an amplifier come from!
 
The JJ's are decent for the cash. NOS sound best. I preferred the NOS Tunsram to four other brands of NOS I tried but not in this amp. EI, RCA, Siemens, and one other. I think it was Telem. They were holding up great in an AC30 which is hard on them.
 
Red_Label":30n2ain0 said:
I've always been an EL34, and to a lesser extent a 6V6/6L6 guy (have also had 5881 and KT88-tubed amps).

But I'm looking at getting a spare/replacement quad of EL84s for my new H&K Grandmeister (LOVE THIS AMP!!!) and don't have a clue what I should get. I'm mostly looking on Ebay and see Mullard Reissues, Sovteks, Groove Tubes, EHX, Shuguangs, JJs, etc. I've used nearly all of these brands over the years in my various Bogner, VHT, Engl, Marshall, Fender, and other amps. But I just dunno what their offerings are like in terms of EL84s. I know that in previous EL34 amps I've owned, JJs tended to be dark. This amp can be a hair bright, so that might work.... if it holds true for EL84s (which I find to be a bit darker than 6V6s anyways).

Anyways... just looking for some great-sounding EL84s that don't burn out too quick. My Grandmeister runs pretty hot, so I blow a little fan on the back and that seems to keep things cooled-down well.

Also, I've heard that EL84s have shorter lifespans than the bigger bottles. Is this true? I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 that I've had for a couple of years that's got both EL84s and 6V6s in it... and I've had to replace neither so far.
Click to expand...

I'm looking for a lunchbox and am torn between the Grandmeister and an Engl Ironball. I've had numerous Engl heads in the past and really like them but I really dig the flexibility of the Grandmeister. Is the Grandmesiter capable of a tight/dry distortion sound similar to what the Engl's deliver?

Sorry, I don't know anything about EL 84's so can't help there...
 
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