Engl Blackmore or Engl Savage from those who played both?

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ShredBaron

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I recently purchased a Engl Blackmore. I have owned a few amps, Marshall YJM, Marshall Jubilee, Marshall DSL, Marshall JVM, Mesa Mark II C Cameron CCV (King version) Engl Powerball, I still own a Axe FX 2 and AFD Marshall combo. IF you have owned both or played both extensively (not five minutes) then please share your opinion. I do not want to send the BLACKMORE back and get the SAVAGE and have to return it again.

To make a long story short for me the ENGL BLACKMORE.. ( have to say it in caps) is the best sounding rock/metal amp I have ever played. Now I only have an guitar at the moment that has EMG pickups so I have not tried it out with passives but I will in due time when I get my other guitar set up.

I have like 20 days to return the ENGL BLACKMORE to Musicians Friend for a ENGL SAVAGE 120. The only reason I would trade is I have heard from the few people I have talked to that the SAVAGE is the same as the Blackmore accept it has 4 channels with seperate EQ ,different tubes, and a depth boost to give a huge low end sound if you want it. Otherwise it is the same amp as the BLACKMORE just with more features. I would have to shell out around $700 more but it is worth it to me if I am getting pretty much the same amp with more options. I owned a ENGL powerball and it was ok but it sucked compared to this BLACKMORE. For me the BLACKMORE blew away my Cameron CCV I used to have. This is just my preference because it is so clear and articulate and I am a shredder so that is what I like Clear, consistent, articulate but lots of balls and power so you can be a one guitar band, guitar keyboard band and sound huge. I like bands like DreamTheatre, Symphony X, Hammerfall, Dream Evil (without the lyrics) Stratovarius, and I like every great rock or metal guitar player you can think of. I of course like the old school stuff like RITCHIE BLACKMORE, YNGWIE, GARY MOORE etc... I appreciate your taking time to save a guitar player some frustration...peace!
 
I'd go for the Savage in a heartbeat. Played both, at different times, dug the Savage and at the time I was looking to ditch my SLO for a Savage.

Remember, before the ENGL Blackmore model was developed, Ritchie Blackmore used Savage amps in 1995 Rainbow. You can see/ hear them on the Eagle Rock DVD from Dusseldorf. From what I understand, he used the Crunch CH w/ a Treble Booster
 
Savage. Black more does less and can easily be an icepick.
 
Owned both (still own the Savage) and I'd take the Savage every time. Like you already stated, the Savage has way more options. For metal, the Savage has more gain, more punch, more clarity and more articulation. Ch2 mode 4 is simply awesome; if your a hard rock/metal player its heaven. And while most people don't buy a Savage for its classic rock/blues abilities, IMO the Savage does that stuff REALLY well with the right guitar and pickups. Too my ears it handles those tones as well as the Blackmore.
 
Never played a Blackmore but I had a Savage for 9 years. Most perfect amp for all the reasons you describe. I just found it was too thin. SHowever in 2011 Engl upgraded the transformer and supposedly they are louder and thicker. I haven't found an amp yet that is as tight and articulate as the Savage. Would love to try one with the new transformer. Everyone on here like the guy above has stated the Savage does everything the Blackmore does but more and better.
 
You mean this output transformer:

Savage 120 OT

Savage120%20Output%20Trans4_zpswcscfxaa.jpg



FB100 OT

FB100%20Output%20Trans2_zpsatbrscsl.jpg



I concur in regards to the Savage being EXTREMELY fast in its response and EXTREMELY tight. Absolutely no boost needed to tighten or add attack. I plugged my TS in front last night and messed with all kinds of settings and the amp flat out sounds way better without the boost. On the other hand, with the FB100 I absolutely need the boost to get what I want out of it. I've never played the pre 2011 Savage before they upgraded the OT, but I can say that this 2014 model is not thin. Thinner than some other amps, well sure, but its got a hefty tone to it for sure especially if you play an eq in the loop and boost the right frequencies.
 
+1000 to everything MHM said above ^^^^^^

The new Savage 120 does sound thicker... night and day difference... not to that degree, but definitely noticeable. It won't do Bogner Uber or Mesa Recto levels of chunk and bottom, but it's not a Marshall JVM either for reference. I do wish it had a depth pot like the PB instead of a fixed depth boost.

If you're after a thick Recto-ish tone... get a Recto or similar variant.
 
^^^
:thumbsup:
A depth/resonance knob would have been the only thing that would have made it even better. I prefer the tone I get with the depth button disengaged and boosted bass/low mids via a graphic in the loop. REALLY thickens it up quite a bit.
 
When I was looking for a high gain amp, I picked Engl. When I picked my Engl, it was the E530 preamp and E850/100 power amp with a pair of 2x12 pro VHB cabs.
 
Man I agree with all the great things said about the Savage. HOWEVER, the Blackmore is badass man! There is no way the Savage shits on the Blackmore. They're both great. If anything, the Artist edition is a slight cut above the Blackmore, but that's subjective. The Savage is a totally badass amp, and has THE tone. It's very flexible too. The Invader II is probably my favorite Engl, but in some ways the Savage outdoes it. Keep in mind the Blackmore has great tone and is more versatile than it looks. It won't do everything the Savage can do, but it has it's own thing going.
 
^^^
I don't think the Savage shit all over the Blackmore, the former is a fine amp indeed. Just depends on what your trying to do and on personal taste. For me the Blackmore just lacked the gain/saturation/ultra tightness and super fast attack the Savage offers.
 
Man, I REALLY appreciate the responses you guys have shared with me. I have heard guys say that BLACKMORE is more clear, articulate, open, less compressed etc
more Marshall sounding and so on. I have heard guys say the SAVAGE is more processed and artificial (whatever that means it is a tube amp) or they will say it sounds like a CD (like a polished super articulate sound that is a bad thing)

Before I posted this I did a search and spent about 6 hours reading every single thread about Savage vs Blackmore and so on. I have listened to probably every you tube clip of both amps. I was trying to find out because the Blackmore sounds great to me for the style of guitar playing I have. Most of the VS threads are which one is better and then it turn into ones of those threads like a Kemper vs Axe Fx.. which is not where I am going. The BLACKMORE is great but why settle for the dagger of Excalibur when your can have the sword.

I liked the Cameron CCV it was a great amp but it did not fit my playing style or the sound I was looking for ( at least not the one I had) and I am not rich so having one or two heads that are beast is about all I can afford. If I did not have to flip amps to get the head I want then I would have a room full of great heads. I have played the Friedman HBE , great amp..I am a middle age guy and have been playing guitar since 1980, so I am past the age where I expected to plug into an amp and get that "This is the sound I hear in my head" experience but this BLACKMORE comes closer in person than any other amp i have owned or played.

I did further research and found out Hammerfall, Dream Evil, Exodus, Firewind, which are bands that have to me great guitar tones that I dig were recorded with the ENGL SAVAGE.

I know the SAVAGE is a modern amp designed for modern metal or so they say. Outside of Jazz, classic rock, and Blues,

I want an amp that could not sound the same but get a similar vibe if I wanted to play some old school metalRacer X, Dokken, Deep Purple, Yngwie, Randy Rhoads,Loudness (AKIRA TAKASAKI), Jason Becker, Eddie Van Halen, Michael Schenker, Jimmy Page, Ted Nugent, Frank Marino, Accept Metallica and I of course cannot leave out the godfather of POWER METAL the man in black, RITCHIE BLACKMORE!


I know I am in a very small minority of guitar players in the United States that plays and writes music in the power metal progresive symphonic style. I am not surprised that so many power metal bands (mostly Europe where this music is popular) use Engl amps. and the bands were influenced by Ritchie Blackmore in my opinion are usually ENGL users like . Symphony X, Dream Evil, Hammerfall, Dream Evil, Firewind, and Exodus who I read use the ENGL SAVAGE in the studio. I heard Michael Romeo with Symphony X uses the Fireball. I have heard recordings of the Fireball. I like the tone of the Savage better than the Fireball but the Fireball is good.

My Metal Guitar set up is a ESP M-2 Neck Thru Alder with EMG 81 pair, I also have a LTD 40th Anniversary seven string mahagony with 55/66 EMG and for the 80s rock stuff I have a Charvel So Cal that has a Dimarzio Tone Zone in bridge and Evolution in the neck. I tried out the Blackout Preamp with it but I am going to take it out and put a old school Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge and a PAF pro in the neck and I hope that paired with the ENGL SAVAGE I will be able to go old school to when I want to and then play modern metal with my ESP

I have decided, I am going to order the ENGL SAVAGE and send back the ENGL BLACKMORE.

:rock: I hope I have no regrets!!! :doh:


A lot of my friends say to me ( and some of you guys may have heard this before as well since this is a place where guys search for their sound) that they do not know anyone who has bought more amp heads than I have. I always tell them that first that is only because they have not been on Rig Talk lol, seriously thought I remind them that I always get an amp that sounds better (to me opinion wise ) than the one I had before. In other words every amp I get is a step closer usually to the sound I hear in my head or closer to fitting the style of rock or metal I want to play. THAT IS IT, I AM SENDING THE BLACKMORE BACK and getting the SAVAGE! On that note has anyone here tried that new EVH EL 34 Stealth and what did you think of it?
 
The only help I can give, is when I was in Amsterdam, I played a savage and was absolutely the best amp I ever heard in person. Since then I bought an Invader 2. Best sounding amp (for the tone I hear in my head) out there. I have an ironball too. I love it as well. The savage rules and is a beast too.
 
I have read a few people say the BLACKMORE is more clear than the SAVAGE and open sounding then the SAVAGE. I guess I am wanting to know if there is enough difference between the 2 heads to keep the BLACKMORE and purchase the SAVAGE. From a financial point of view unless the SAVAGE cannot do any blues or classic rock ever and the BLACKMORE can then I would think about owning both. Otherwise, I would rather have just one amp and by something else later that sounds totally different. Two expensive heads is the limit for me a one time. I am thinking about that new EVH EL34 5150 III and I do not want to own two amps that are the same but one has more features.
 
ShredBaron":2ukyy68n said:
I have read a few people say the BLACKMORE is more clear than the SAVAGE and open sounding then the SAVAGE. I guess I am wanting to know if there is enough difference between the 2 heads to keep the BLACKMORE and purchase the SAVAGE. From a financial point of view unless the SAVAGE cannot do any blues or classic rock ever and the BLACKMORE can then I would think about owning both. Otherwise, I would rather have just one amp and by something else later that sounds totally different. Two expensive heads is the limit for me a one time. I am thinking about that new EVH EL34 5150 III and I do not want to own two amps that are the same but one has more features.
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I owned both and ditched the Blackmore. I felt the Savage was the better amp for me. The Blackmore was cool, but the Savage does metal better IMHO. For most any kind of metal/hard rock the Savage is absolutely amazing. As for classic rock/blues, I was just playing a 04 non-weight relieved LP studio with a Rebel Yell in the bridge and was EXTREMELY pleased with the classic rock/blues tones I was getting while plugged straight in to the amp with no pedals whatsoever. I was amazed at how dynamic the amp was in response to both my volume pot and my picking hand.

I couldn't justify owning both of these unless I came into some money. My vote is get the Savage, ditch the Blackmore if your happy with the former, and buy an amp that's different all together.
 
I am into rhythm but lead guitar is what I play best. I do not play like any body but I can play stuff like Racer X, Yngwie, Dream Theatre, Symphony X. All those bands who great players who have a really clear and articulate sound. I do mess around with some blues and 80s hard rock. My style though for modern metal is in the European Power Metal/Prog metal vein. Is the SAVAGE as good or better than the BLACKMORE for lead guitar solos and is it as clear and defined. I know it may seem ridiculous asking these questions but I am just trying to get the last piece of the puzzle. I already know this thing is a beast for rhythm but that is all I really heard it do.
 
Had a Savage, and miss it.
Have an Ironball - love it for noodling at low volumes. Fairly versatile as well

However, recently picked up an Artist.. if you are looking for the 80's hard rock sound, the Artist is a tweaked version with EL34's.. the most "marshall" flavored ENGL you can get. Also - it was developed with input from Gary Moore, as well as Doug Aldrich.. and Jimmy Page has one in his arsenal as well.

Nice clean channel, good break up, good hard rock (ala AC/DC) and gets into the 80's metal sounds as well... check some reviews on that as well...
 
ShredBaron":1zunmmao said:
I am into rhythm but lead guitar is what I play best. I do not play like any body but I can play stuff like Racer X, Yngwie, Dream Theatre, Symphony X. All those bands who great players who have a really clear and articulate sound. I do mess around with some blues and 80s hard rock. My style though for modern metal is in the European Power Metal/Prog metal vein. Is the SAVAGE as good or better than the BLACKMORE for lead guitar solos and is it as clear and defined. I know it may seem ridiculous asking these questions but I am just trying to get the last piece of the puzzle. I already know this thing is a beast for rhythm but that is all I really heard it do.
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I'm not into those bands or that type of sound to be honest, and I'm a rhythm player for the most part. For the little bit of dicking around I do with leadwork the Savage is great for leads, but that's just my opinion. What I can tell you for sure is that the Savage will get really saturated on Ch2 mode 3 and especially so on mode 4 and as a result can produce a nice singing quality, great sustain, and a fair bit of compression when the gain is cranked if that makes sense. The former are things that I like for lead tones for what its worth. There are lots of buttons and knobs to tweak for various tones; really a lot of versatility in the Savage IMHO.

As far as the Savage being better than the Blackmore for leadwork, that is 110% up to the user man. Only you are gonna know if its "better".
 
@MetalheadMike; what do you mean with Ch2, Mode 3? The 'low' Lead sound (only 1st gain knob of the two)?

@ShredBaron; what did you end up with?

FWIW, I played the Savage SE this weekend next to my Invader, constantly switching amps and cabs with a buddy; when it comes to the high gain rhythm tone, the Invader comes very close, but the Savage (Channel 2, Lead Gain) is more raw and ferocious.
But when it comes to crystal clean sounds, the Invader's clean is clearly the better and more characterful of the two. Savage SE's crunch OTOH has a nicer Marshally raspiness, where the Invader's 2nd channel remains too smooth.

I still need to play the Savage 120 one day; see what extra sounds it delivers compared to my Savage 60. I'd probably use a 2 amp setup for recording.
 
Speeddemon":3j2u1kyp said:
@MetalheadMike; what do you mean with Ch2, Mode 3? The 'low' Lead sound (only 1st gain knob of the two)?

@ShredBaron; what did you end up with?

FWIW, I played the Savage SE this weekend next to my Invader, constantly switching amps and cabs with a buddy; when it comes to the high gain rhythm tone, the Invader comes very close, but the Savage (Channel 2, Lead Gain) is more raw and ferocious.
But when it comes to crystal clean sounds, the Invader's clean is clearly the better and more characterful of the two. Savage SE's crunch OTOH has a nicer Marshally raspiness, where the Invader's 2nd channel remains too smooth.

I still need to play the Savage 120 one day; see what extra sounds it delivers compared to my Savage 60. I'd probably use a 2 amp setup for recording.
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Yep. I was referring to the Ch 2 lead button disengaged if that makes sense. I actually don't play that mode at all really. I recently did discover that a TS9 into Ch 1 clean sounds pretty amazing for classic rock/ heavy blues breakup. Can imagine what some other pedals would sound like. Ch 1 crunch plugged straight in also gets some great classic rock/ heavy blues but something about the TS9 into the clean mode of Ch 1 sounds so good!

I play all my modern metal rhythm stuff on Ch 2 lead and "raw and ferocious" is a great way of putting it. Mean fucking sound for sure; can't get enough of that tone. So unbelievably tight and crunchy :rock:
 
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