ESP Not as Popular as Before?

[Rock Bodom]

Can't you just get an Edwards and have the Japanese quality? Instead of gambling on an LTD? Just curious. I have never owned one.

Edwards seems to have a good track record, I've always felt they were closer to the old US standard series than the higher end LTD's. I have 3 Edwards, all the same model with different finishes, and on one of them the neck binding is a bit sloppy in spots compared to the other 2, but otherwise pretty nice. The necks overall play much better than any LTD I've handled, again, closer to the standard series IMO.

And yes, my understanding as well is that technically the Edwards models have final assembly in Japan, but the earlier work is done in a China plant. But I'd still take them over the LTD's based on actual experience owning and playing them.

 

[Les Zombie]

I still love esp guitars, i used to buy alot of them till the prices went crazy.
I would say ive owned about 25 of their guitars over the yrs and still own about 10 of them but i havent bought any of them built lately. Great guitars, i owned jacksons, ibanez, and charvel all at the same time but always liked esp the best. Im a fan of their necks and the feel of the guitars.

 

[MikeSoldano]

so true. So true.

 

[Knockout]

Can't you just get an Edwards and have the Japanese quality? Instead of gambling on an LTD? Just curious. I have never owned one.

Edwards don't gave many ESP styles that LTD has...matter of fact Edwards is more of a Gibson clone line. LTD has all the same styles, just cheaper.

 

[technomancer]

Edwards aren't made in Japan. Its all an illusion. They only send them to Japan from China for final assembly/setup.

Incorrect. Finishing and fret work are also done in Japan. The only thing that gets done in China is the woodworking.

Edwards don't gave many ESP styles that LTD has...matter of fact Edwards is more of a Gibson clone line. LTD has all the same styles, just cheaper.

What model are you looking for? There are Edwards versions of just about every ESP body style.

 

[Stealthtastic]

I thought Edwards is all Japanese now, and they just use the Edwards name to make their copy guitars they sell in Japan?

 

[technomancer]

I thought Edwards is all Japanese now, and they just use the Edwards name to make their copy guitars they sell in Japan?

If so it's news to me. As far as I know the initial run when they were introduced were all Japanese then they moved the woodworking to China with the finishing / fretwork / assembly being done in Japan.

 

[jlb32]

I still own and love my older ESP Standards and ESP Custom Shop guitars. The ESP Standards I have are just as good as the ESP Custom Shop models I have. The fit, finish, playability and tone are just excellent. The E-II models I have tried have not impressed me. They just seem majorly downgraded. Just a poor business move by ESP IMO. Many say the E-II's are the exact same guitars as the older ESP Standards, just a name change. IMO they aren't even close.

 

[VC4Ever]

Edwards aren't made in Japan. Its all an illusion. They only send them to Japan from China for final assembly/setup.

Incorrect. Finishing and fret work are also done in Japan. The only thing that gets done in China is the woodworking.

Edwards don't gave many ESP styles that LTD has...matter of fact Edwards is more of a Gibson clone line. LTD has all the same styles, just cheaper.

What model are you looking for? There are Edwards versions of just about every ESP body style.

Either way its a total lie to the customer who thinks they are getting a Made in Japan guitar. I was thinking about getting a new Edwards until I dug a little deeper. When the price is too good to be true it probably is.

 

[jlb32]

The Edwards models are in between the lower level Ltd. models and the old ESP Standards. ESP claiming they are made in Japan is all marketing hype. Should say assembled in Japan. That and some finishing work like frets is all that is done in Japan.

 

[Rock Bodom]

I'll say it again...regardless of what part of the production of the Edwards is done in Japan, based on real experience they play quite well, noticeably better than LTD's in my experience. I own and have owned a number of ESP's at various price points (including Kiso shop, regular signature series, standard series, Edwards, higher end LTD's), the Edwards isn't going to feel like the custom shop. But I definitely noticed a playability difference going from the higher end LTD's to the Edwards, not to say some LTD's are not decent guitars (I own a couple of those I like as well). Edwards really does feel closer to the old standard series to me. If you are chasing playability versus Internet specs, they are worth a look.

I do agree if the bodies are made in China they should state that just to be transparent, but that wouldn't stop me from buying another one. Even if all of the production was/is in Japan, I'm not getting a "real ESP", but something that is cool for what it is. That's why I said earlier I wish they would have used the Edwards label instead of E-II, the favorable history is already there with Edwards. It's a simple cosmetic thing, but brand identity is built on perception, something I don't think ESP quite got right with American buyers with this change. I don't perceive the ESP brand as worth the top coin like I'd readily drop on something like a high end Gibson, even though Gibson is totally gouging me price wise (not saying ESP aren't comparable in actual quality, I just don't think they have the history/pedigree). ESP was always just an alternative to a Jackson for me, a nice $1500-2500 guitar to play heavy metal on. I liked dabbling in the higher end stuff they had, but psychologically it is not in my brain that ESP is a high end boutique first and foremost, even if that was the history of the brand in Japan and where they now want to steer the ship here in the USA.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

I've looked at some detailed pics of Edwards guitars. There are "some" sellers on Ebay that actually post good pictures "meestursparkle" is one of them. He's got zillions of detailed pics for every guitar. He sells a lot of Edwards guitars. I've owned an LTD in the past, an AW-7. I forgot about that. It was decent. But my point is that I am a nitpicker. The fit and finish, I've seen on the Edwards guitars is pretty damn good compared to some of the LTD's that I've seen that friends have had and that I've seen at GC and other shops.

Whether they are as nice in person is another thing. I'm only looking at pictures online. But from what I've seen, the Edwards fit and finish is far superior to that of the LTD line.

 

[JimmyBlind]

I thought Edwards is all Japanese now, and they just use the Edwards name to make their copy guitars they sell in Japan?

That's what I thought. I thought it was the same Japanese factory as ESP, making patent-infringing guitars for the Japanese market. In terms of fit & finish, I understood them to be the same quality as ESP.

I wonder if their product line was restructured or whether they can operate independently of ESP?

 

[John 14:6]

I still want a few of these Lynch models, but I will probably look for a clean used one eventually.

 

[VoodooChild24]

Hey man, where the hell did you get that satin / purple ESP? I have been looking for one just like that. Is he for sale by chance?

 

[Pushead]

Most people think it's satin black, until you put it next to a black guitar. I've had it for a bunch of years. It was originally purchased in Australia and then shipped to the US by a friend. I think it's an 05. I had a "Full Thickness" version brought in the same way, but that has moved on to another owner.

You don't see many in this finish, but I know there are a few 3-knob Eclipses out there. You catch them every once in a while on eBay.

 

[mooncobra]

I have an e-ii horizon and its great.

 

[jsp]

The problem with the rebranding was that instead of lifting the premium branding up, they knocked their mid-level branding down. Like already mentioned, all Ibanez's are Ibanez's, some just have a Prestige, J-Custom, LACS, etc tags to differentiate their respective levels. Branding is extremely important in the US, and ESP was solidly branded as a high-quality, but not custom shop level, $1-2k range guitar here (and higher if you went custom). ESP hasn't done anything to change that image here, except to take away the brand from what had to have been 99% of the ESP-branded guitars sold here and bring in a line at a price point that far exceeded anything that they've sold before. You can't just take away a brand, place it on something that costs over twice what it used to to an entire market, and expect it to sell the way it did. Imagine if Toyota took the Lexus name off of all Lexus's except the LFA, and called the entire line Toyota-Elite or L-II or something. It probably wouldn't impact Camry sales, but I would imagine that an L-II IS at $40k+ is a tough sell...

 

[squank]

As shallow as it might seem, the logo "E-II" just looks weird and that's enough to have people not even bother to play them. You can't expand a brand that way.

For me, I've wanted to by an LTD EC-1000 for a long time. I love the bling on those things. But those damn skinny necks are the barrier. I wish you could get them with a fat neck.

 

[Joe-TX]

Concerning where Edwards are made, I got this off of the MyLesPaul.com forum.

Originally Posted by gibiphone2 View Post
I've been away from this forum for about 3 ½ years, but decided to come back to wrap-up this thread. Been gone so long I forgot my password and no longer have the email address I registered with, so I am now Gibiphone2.

Tonebone's ole buddy Tokai Joe lolol first made the revelation that Edwards were partially made in China. Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com :: View topic - "EDWARDS" by ESP are officially NOT MADE IN JAPAN! I later confirmed it with my inquiries to ESP and further research, resulting in the birth of this thread. The company clammed up shortly after that.

Edwards originally were made entirely in Japan. But, from before I first started this thread in 2009, the initial manufacture of Edwards was in fact done at the ESP factory in Jixi, Heilongjiang, PRC. I do not know how much before then the production had moved to China, but at least a year. Sometime in the intervening years, complete production of Edwards was returned to Japan. The ESP China factory now produces lower end LTD models for export and three brands with which I am not familiar; Fearless, Pride, and Kaalena. I can find only one reference to any of these three brands on the internet, and thus assume they are for Chinese domestic sales only. Curiously enough, the one reference was on this forum with the writer asking about the name Kaalena. Help me ID this headstock

Since 2009, The location of the factory has moved a short distance, into what appears to be a relatively new facility.

The address is now: No 93 Dongshan Rd, Jiguan District, Jixi Municipality, Heilongjiang, China (黑龙江省鸡西市鸡冠区东山路93号)

Here's the Website for the company known as Heilongjiang ESP Electronic Audio Co., Ltd. (黑龙江伊瑷斯霹电子音响有限公司) and ESP China Ltd. (ESP 中国有限公司). This website appears to be quite new with only a little over 1,100 visits to date.

黑龙江伊瑷斯霹电å*éŸ³å“æœ‰é™å…¬å¸
http://espchinahlj.com/index.jsp
Don"t know why the link looks goofy, but it works.

The website has pics of the models they produce now, and some great shots of the factory interior

Here's the contact page, with a great exterior view of the factory.

http://espchinahlj.com/col.jsp?id=102

Here are Heilongjiang and Jixi Municipality Officials touring the plant, with shots of what appear to be some LTD models.

http://espchinahlj.com/col.jsp?id=103

For the record, ESP states “ESP guitars are built in our main factory and custom-shop located in Japan. These are completely built and assembled by highly skilled craftsmen using the best parts & wood selection. LTD guitars are produced in our factories outside of Japan (currently Korea, Indonesia, China, and Vietnam), and are manufactured in larger quantities using an assembly-line production method. This results in lower priced instruments.”

The bottom line is that complete production of Edwards has returned to Japan after a brief interlude (at least 2009 maybe longer) when the initial phase of the manufacture (woodworking through painting) was done at the ESP China facility. While Edwards falls a little short of the Navagator line, the fit and finish are superb making Edwards guitars the most under-rated guitar brand in Japan. The bang-for-the-buck makes them one of the best buys around.
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