EVH, I don't get it...

[Anonymous]

like what you like....i just don't find any substance there.

George, I don't care whether you like EVH or not, I really don't, but to say there is no substance there is flat ridiculous. Go learn to play "Girl Gone Bad", or "Light Up The Sky" or a dozen other songs I could name. I mean REALLY learn to play the the nuances in the rhythm parts and swing and then tell me that there is no substance in what EVH did early on. Whether you asthetically appreciate the music or not, you can't tell me that he wasn't a unique and inventive rhythm guitar player if you actually try to replicate what he does...

There are plenty of players that others here dig that aren't favorites of mine because their music doesn't grab me, but I can still appreciate their playing and contribution to music if they do something unique or inventive. To dismiss EVH as lacking substance because you don't get off on the music is a bit short-sighted IMO...

Steve

 

[stephen sawall]

Reading this thread you get the feeling everything sucked before Outkast.

 

[Pickup]

Todays music scene is lacking to say the least imo, compared to the 70`s and early 80`s. Glad I was there.

 

[rupe]

RR > EVH

with all respect to RR, EVH did more than play guitar awesome, he wrote killer hook based songs that resonated with chicks who were laying on the beach just as much as dudes who wanted to rock out. Add in all of Eddies gear contributions to modern guitar and its just an unfair comparison. I mean look at it like this, in 2011 in any frat/sorority party (usually one of the most non music related environments to say the least) your gonna get a GUARANTEE party and chicks screaming along when they hear the keyboard intro to Jump, and thats almost 30 years after it topped the charts. It fits in the same category as a "dont stop believing" or "jessies girl" on party hits. Lets take it to another level, he played on FRIGGIN BEAT IT!! The dude just broke down all barriers between shred guitar and popularity.

Not to say that eddie "invented" all this stuff but he definately took it to another level.

ask a random chick or friend who isnt into music who ritchie Blackmore is, or who Randy Rhaods is. Then ask them who eddie van halen is. There in lies your answer, EVH brought over the top guitar soloing into pop culture, thats in addition to his ground breaking technique, his chart topping songwriting skills, and his inventions and contributions to the guitar gear community.


i know, i know, im biased. but to me its just a no brainer, the dude is THE MOST IMPORTANT guitar player post hendrix, in history.

Only thing that would make it more obvious was if he had died an early death, if that would have happened he would be revered like a lennon, cobain, or hendrix. Hell he is already almost there and thats with spending his latter years as a screw loose alcoholic.

all hail king edward!!!!

A Wood

Well Randy had 2 years in the "spotlight".....would have been nice to have alittle more material to hear.

As far as non-players knowing him vs EVH, what does that have to do with anything? I'd think that more know Slash for that matter....Did VH actually have something top the charts? I really don't know.

I bet there are alot of frat parties rockin to Crazy Train, seems to have passed the test of time. They play that tune at tons of sporting events....

like what you like....i just don't find any substance there.

i agree RR didnt leave the world with a fair amount of time in the spotlight. who knows what he would have accomplished.

but what im talking about with non players knowing him, is exactly the same thing as slash. its impact man, and the original poster was talking about not "getting" EVH well, understanding the impact he and his music made is part of getting it. im talking on a big picture type of thing.

as for chart toppers, yeah man everything from "1984" to "for unlawful carnel knowledge" (the obvious hit on that one being "right now") there was plenty of time Ed and his band have been on top.


Frat parties rocking crazy train, abso-fuckin-lutely! the majority of the guys and gals knowing the name of the guitarist shredding it up i dont think so. yet again going to Ed's impact and bringing the guitar and guitar soloing to the regular common joe blow. Its not that other songs didnt have it, cuz they did, its the fact that the world knew eddies name, and knew it was synonymous with GUITAR, and GUITAR SOLOING And that is what we are talking about here, the guitar player ya know? his importance, and where tto start if you "dont get it" but maybe you want to, like the original poster said he wanted. EVH became an icon to non musicians, much like slash. I hope you get what my point is now.

and to you, like what you like, and i bet i like alot of what you like too. BUT in my opinion only, Ed was a revolutionary. And as for substance, well there is so much substance on his albums that i still for the life of me cant get my head around his phrasing and internal sense of groove. But again, just my opinion

A Wood

First off, thanks to George for essentially saying what I would have said.

I put the winking smiley behind that quote as I said it in a tongue-in-cheek manner. As a teenage guitarist in the early 80's it seemed that there was always an Eddie vs Randy dynamic...not sure why or if this was prevelant elsewhere but you "needed" to choose sides where I came from (as silly as that seems now...and even then). As an adult, I continue to see this mentality on various forums so I thought I'd have some fun with it.

On a more serious note now that the issue is being discussed, I much prefer Randy to Eddie overall. There is no denying Ed's contributions to the guitar universe...everything from popularizing various techniques to achieving previously unheard tones to coming up some some killer and memorable riffs are all undeniably part of his legacy. That said, for me Randy's lead playing had so much more substance than Ed's IMO. I quickly tired of Ed's pentatonic wanking and flash and usually found it had little to do with any melodic content elsewhere in the song. Cool? No doubt. Fresh and original phrasing? Damn right, but the novelty wore off for me pretty quickly. Enter Rhoads with his classical influence, well structured modal solos, odd (for the times) keys, and amazing chops and it just all added to up something above and beyond what I heard from Ed. Ed's solos came off to me as little chaotic bursts that were practically interchangable from one song to the next whereas Randy came up with solos that felt like compositions in and of themselves with strong ties to the rest of the song.
Ed himself referred to his soloing as "falling down the stairs and landing on your feet"...Randy's were more like a calculated trip down those stairs, often with a few surprises thrown in for good measure.

Beyond playing, Randy just came off to me as the coolest of the cool with his Mick Ronson shag, cool guitars, and well planned wardrobe, whereas Ed seemed a bit dorkey with a nappy mop of hair and terrible wardrobe (striped socks and overalls?)...in retrospect he had some cool guitars but I didn't dig them much at the time.

There's no denying that Eddie had a more far reaching impact than Randy but that means nothing to me...as a player and fan I much prefer Randy's work. For me, RR > EVH still holds true.

 

[Anonymous]

As a teenage guitarist in the early 80's it seemed that there was always an Eddie vs Randy dynamic...not sure why or if this was prevelant elsewhere but you "needed" to choose sides where I came from (as silly as that seems now...and even then).

I don't remember any such thing in LA at the time. We all loved 'em both... Course by the mid-80s there was somewhat of a backlash among the players against Ed for some reason - probably to distance themselves from being considered clones. I'd see several guys at guitar shows, etc. wearing these t-shirts that said "I Don't Give a Fuck What Eddie Van Halen Says!". Yeah... and all the while they were still all sounding like him...

Ed himself referred to his soloing as "falling down the stairs and landing on your feet"...Randy's were more like a calculated trip down those stairs, often with a few surprises thrown in for good measure.

What you are pointing out is very true IMO (except for a few solos like "Push Comes To Shove" which was planned out and VERY cool). In my case, this is EXACTLY why I enjoy EVH's playing more (although as I said, I apppreciate both of them tremendously). I like the "off the cuff" vibe over the planned out structured solos personally... just goes to show - all personal preference...

Beyond playing, Randy just came off to me as the coolest of the cool with his Mick Ronson shag, cool guitars, and well planned wardrobe, whereas Ed seemed a bit dorkey with a nappy mop of hair and terrible wardrobe (striped socks and overalls?)...in retrospect he had some cool guitars but I didn't dig them much at the time.

Yeah, those polka dot vests and bow ties he wore in Quiet Riot were the shit!

Steve

 

[tweed]

Yeah, those polka dot vests and bow ties he wore in Quiet Riot were the shit!

Steve

Dammit Steve! Coffee just shot threw my nose!

 

[JackBootedThug]

shame eddie can't get his demons under control. his personal life is about as straight as a purple firetruck.

 

[van hellion]

RR > EVH

with all respect to RR, EVH did more than play guitar awesome, he wrote killer hook based songs that resonated with chicks who were laying on the beach just as much as dudes who wanted to rock out. Add in all of Eddies gear contributions to modern guitar and its just an unfair comparison. I mean look at it like this, in 2011 in any frat/sorority party (usually one of the most non music related environments to say the least) your gonna get a GUARANTEE party and chicks screaming along when they hear the keyboard intro to Jump, and thats almost 30 years after it topped the charts. It fits in the same category as a "dont stop believing" or "jessies girl" on party hits. Lets take it to another level, he played on FRIGGIN BEAT IT!! The dude just broke down all barriers between shred guitar and popularity.

Not to say that eddie "invented" all this stuff but he definately took it to another level.

ask a random chick or friend who isnt into music who ritchie Blackmore is, or who Randy Rhaods is. Then ask them who eddie van halen is. There in lies your answer, EVH brought over the top guitar soloing into pop culture, thats in addition to his ground breaking technique, his chart topping songwriting skills, and his inventions and contributions to the guitar gear community.


i know, i know, im biased. but to me its just a no brainer, the dude is THE MOST IMPORTANT guitar player post hendrix, in history.

Only thing that would make it more obvious was if he had died an early death, if that would have happened he would be revered like a lennon, cobain, or hendrix. Hell he is already almost there and thats with spending his latter years as a screw loose alcoholic.

all hail king edward!!!!

A Wood

Well Randy had 2 years in the "spotlight".....would have been nice to have alittle more material to hear.

As far as non-players knowing him vs EVH, what does that have to do with anything? I'd think that more know Slash for that matter....Did VH actually have something top the charts? I really don't know.

I bet there are alot of frat parties rockin to Crazy Train, seems to have passed the test of time. They play that tune at tons of sporting events....

like what you like....i just don't find any substance there.

i agree RR didnt leave the world with a fair amount of time in the spotlight. who knows what he would have accomplished.

but what im talking about with non players knowing him, is exactly the same thing as slash. its impact man, and the original poster was talking about not "getting" EVH well, understanding the impact he and his music made is part of getting it. im talking on a big picture type of thing.

as for chart toppers, yeah man everything from "1984" to "for unlawful carnel knowledge" (the obvious hit on that one being "right now") there was plenty of time Ed and his band have been on top.


Frat parties rocking crazy train, abso-fuckin-lutely! the majority of the guys and gals knowing the name of the guitarist shredding it up i dont think so. yet again going to Ed's impact and bringing the guitar and guitar soloing to the regular common joe blow. Its not that other songs didnt have it, cuz they did, its the fact that the world knew eddies name, and knew it was synonymous with GUITAR, and GUITAR SOLOING And that is what we are talking about here, the guitar player ya know? his importance, and where tto start if you "dont get it" but maybe you want to, like the original poster said he wanted. EVH became an icon to non musicians, much like slash. I hope you get what my point is now.

and to you, like what you like, and i bet i like alot of what you like too. BUT in my opinion only, Ed was a revolutionary. And as for substance, well there is so much substance on his albums that i still for the life of me cant get my head around his phrasing and internal sense of groove. But again, just my opinion

A Wood

First off, thanks to George for essentially saying what I would have said.

I put the winking smiley behind that quote as I said it in a tongue-in-cheek manner. As a teenage guitarist in the early 80's it seemed that there was always an Eddie vs Randy dynamic...not sure why or if this was prevelant elsewhere but you "needed" to choose sides where I came from (as silly as that seems now...and even then). As an adult, I continue to see this mentality on various forums so I thought I'd have some fun with it.

On a more serious note now that the issue is being discussed, I much prefer Randy to Eddie overall. There is no denying Ed's contributions to the guitar universe...everything from popularizing various techniques to achieving previously unheard tones to coming up some some killer and memorable riffs are all undeniably part of his legacy. That said, for me Randy's lead playing had so much more substance than Ed's IMO. I quickly tired of Ed's pentatonic wanking and flash and usually found it had little to do with any melodic content elsewhere in the song. Cool? No doubt. Fresh and original phrasing? Damn right, but the novelty wore off for me pretty quickly. Enter Rhoads with his classical influence, well structured modal solos, odd (for the times) keys, and amazing chops and it just all added to up something above and beyond what I heard from Ed. Ed's solos came off to me as little chaotic bursts that were practically interchangable from one song to the next whereas Randy came up with solos that felt like compositions in and of themselves with strong ties to the rest of the song.
Ed himself referred to his soloing as "falling down the stairs and landing on your feet"...Randy's were more like a calculated trip down those stairs, often with a few surprises thrown in for good measure.

Beyond playing, Randy just came off to me as the coolest of the cool with his Mick Ronson shag, cool guitars, and well planned wardrobe, whereas Ed seemed a bit dorkey with a nappy mop of hair and terrible wardrobe (striped socks and overalls?)...in retrospect he had some cool guitars but I didn't dig them much at the time.

There's no denying that Eddie had a more far reaching impact than Randy but that means nothing to me...as a player and fan I much prefer Randy's work. For me, RR > EVH still holds true.

your last line just sums up the whole debate even though i personally prefer EVH to RR i was trying to take the angle of the "far reaching impact", as you put it. It was a means for me to try and help the OP "get EVH"

A Wood

 

[MisterBulbous]

I'm not good at making friends on this site recently, so why don't I put my dog in this fight>

Rupe:
Ed's pentatonic wanking? wow...
More like spontanaeity(spell?) and feel. No rhythm guitarist to wank over, Ed carried the song through the solo section with just enough length - always landing on his feet. No triple-tracked guitars, no guitar exercises (except maybe, "On Fire"), actual rhythm guitar "funky/dance" solos (like the breakdown in Mean Streets or Light up the Sky), no monotonous repetition. I like how I can hear mistakes in Ed's solos and it sounds just fine. I will give you "the wank" on some of the later Sammy stuff though. Some of the live cover stuff is just awful.

Rivalry:
I never remember this being argued amongst guitarists in the '80's. In fact, Randy's breakthrough came a few years after VH already had at least four albums out. If anything, I remember the rivalry between Van Halen and Journey. It was always cool to wear VH concert shirts - borderline for the Journey shirts. And of course, Neil Schon had much to say about DLR.

My Take (personal opinion
There are bits and pieces of Randy's stuff that sounds like Eddie. I can't think of any of VH's stuff that sounds like Rhoads. In fact, I have the very first printed interview of Randy in GW magazine. If I recall, Randy admits to some guilt and frustration for stealing some of Ed's licks and techniques in his live solo spot.

The Randy vs Eddie argument sometimes seems better suited for the old HCAF days.

 

[Pickup]

You guys that keep concentrating on Ed`s sobriety. HE HAS NEVER BEEN SOBER since 1976. Get it through your liberal/conservative fuckn heads.The Ed that you all love from back in day was a fuckn mess then. I was therel. NO body cries about Dean Martin or Sammy Davis being wasted. MoveThe Fuck On

 

[Pickup]

yeah how about before the internet? Alot guys on here talk this shit but if you were 9-10 years old in 1980 Move along. Please just move along on your internet journey.

I'm not good at making friends on this site recently, so why don't I put my dog in this fight>

Rupe:
Ed's pentatonic wanking? wow...
More like spontanaeity(spell?) and feel. No rhythm guitarist to wank over, Ed carried the song through the solo section with just enough length - always landing on his feet. No triple-tracked guitars, no guitar exercises (except maybe, "On Fire"), actual rhythm guitar "funky/dance" solos (like the breakdown in Mean Streets or Light up the Sky), no monotonous repetition. I like how I can hear mistakes in Ed's solos and it sounds just fine. I will give you "the wank" on some of the later Sammy stuff though. Some of the live cover stuff is just awful.

Rivalry:
I never remember this being argued amongst guitarists in the '80's. In fact, Randy's breakthrough came a few years after VH already had at least four albums out. If anything, I remember the rivalry between Van Halen and Journey. It was always cool to wear VH concert shirts - borderline for the Journey shirts. And of course, Neil Schon had much to say about DLR.

My Take (personal opinion
There are bits and pieces of Randy's stuff that sounds like Eddie. I can't think of any of VH's stuff that sounds like Rhoads. In fact, I have the very first printed interview of Randy in GW magazine. If I recall, Randy admits to some guilt and frustration for stealing some of Ed's licks and techniques in his live solo spot.

The Randy vs Eddie argument sometimes seems better suited for the old HCAF days.

 

[Anonymous]

You guys that keep concentrating on Ed`s sobriety. HE HAS NEVER BEEN SOBER since 1976. Get it through your liberal/conservative fuckn heads.The Ed that you all love from back in day was a fuckn mess then. I was therel. NO body cries about Dean Martin or Sammy Davis being wasted. MoveThe Fuck On

The problem is the combination of age and constant drug and alcohol abuse over a long period of time. When he was young he could get away with being a mess and still play his ass off. That isn't the case anymore.

Steve

 

[MisterBulbous]

Good job Pickup! You go kid!

 

[Pickup]

Well I think he quit playing in the early 2000`s and thats what has fuck him up. Not playing for 3-5 years.

 

[locoed]

IMO aside from being a great player,Ed was innovative,he thought outside the box,in a way that Les Paul did,he wasn't afraid to try different things and apply them in song.He made his own guitars because nobody made them the way he wanted them. He thickened up his sound with an echoplex WTF and while JP might be faster etc,he's not doing anything new.
Ed wrote the book on it,there's only been a few players to re-invent a style,like Jimi,Eddie and IMO Hetfield did to with his style,gave birth to a new style.

 

[Greazygeo]

George, I don't care whether you like EVH or not, I really don't, but to say there is no substance there is flat ridiculous. Go learn to play "Girl Gone Bad", or "Light Up The Sky" or a dozen other songs I could name. I mean REALLY learn to play the the nuances in the rhythm parts and swing and then tell me that there is no substance in what EVH did early on. Whether you asthetically appreciate the music or not, you can't tell me that he wasn't a unique and inventive rhythm guitar player if you actually try to replicate what he does...

There are plenty of players that others here dig that aren't favorites of mine because their music doesn't grab me, but I can still appreciate their playing and contribution to music if they do something unique or inventive. To dismiss EVH as lacking substance because you don't get off on the music is a bit short-sighted IMO...

Steve

Yeah Steve, I just don't find his playing interesting. The tunes are basic party tunes, which are good. I like a few tunes here and there. Just nothing that makes me want to intently listen to it like other stuff does. Party rock stuff has never been something I really cared for. Maybe thats why I never went to parties.

I've learned alot of that stuff over the years for students, cover bands etc. The stuff I prefer is more melodic / harmonic structured like classical / jazz. Uli/ RR/ Blackmore and Angus Young are my favorite players.....and early Alice Cooper of course.

 

[Rogue]

I've learned alot of that stuff over the years for students, cover bands etc. The stuff I prefer is more melodic / harmonic structured like classical / jazz. Uli/ RR/ Blackmore and Angus Young are my favorite players.....and early Alice Cooper of course.

Angus Young would be considered non-party rock?

 

[redrol]

I really like the first 2 VH albums, but as a player EVH sucks now. That kind of thing plays out with a lot of bands that I like. Still remember the early 80s and he was considered something pretty special.
The 70s were definitely the strongest decade musically. I have TONS of shit I listen to from the 70s that just has no equal today. Honestly though, music in America is totally dead. Seems the record companies did it themselves.

 

[Greazygeo]

I've learned alot of that stuff over the years for students, cover bands etc. The stuff I prefer is more melodic / harmonic structured like classical / jazz. Uli/ RR/ Blackmore and Angus Young are my favorite players.....and early Alice Cooper of course.

Angus Young would be considered non-party rock?

Yeah its heavy metal, didnt you know that?

 

[Anonymous]

1978 Senior year in high school..9:25AM Art class...Somebody put on an album they just got....from the first song out of the gate my instant reply from across the room was....Who the fuck is that!!!..The tone...the licks, the swagger...was and is still awesome......Michael Schenker is my fave player but that first album of Van Halens did change the course of guitar playing as we knew it then..
I did see them earlier when they were called Mammoth but....Wasn't the same at all...mainly a cover band at that time