Exact same amp build, 50w vs 100w - any difference in tone?

fusedbrain

fusedbrain

Well-known member
I'd like to build myself a JCM800 clone.
I have 2 unused ClassicTone " Marshall style" transformer sets: 50 & 100 watt laydown PT's, 50 &100w OPT's & 3H choke.
The amp will be built in a 100w Metro chassis with double can caps for the plates and screens.
I'm going to fab up my own turret board for this build, and will probably put the PI and pre-amp filter caps on the board, so that the PI cap isn't way down in the back corner like Marshall does it.
I'm just wondering if I should go 50w and save the cost of the 2 x EL34's, or would a 100w version be the better choice.
Some people say 100w amps have more punch, but is that just a straight volume thing, or does the bigger OPT actually sound better?
I've never had the opportunity to do a comparison of 2 different power versions of the same circuit.
What do you guys think?
 
MetalHeadMike said:
100w every time and every amp for me. Just feels different and deeper harder hitting more 3D low end. Just more punch/push/girth/depth to the tone to me.
Click to expand...
Ok, cool! Thanks for the reply.
This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for (y)
 
I used to think 100 watt or go fuck yourself. Some circuits i couldn't tell a difference. Wizards were one. 50 and 100 watt were identical. No more headroom or perceived volume. 150 watts were insane

But that led me to get my mgl 50 as at the time 100 watt was not a thing for them
 
fusedbrain said:
I'd like to build myself a JCM800 clone.
I have 2 unused ClassicTone " Marshall style" transformer sets: 50 & 100 watt laydown PT's, 50 &100w OPT's & 3H choke.
The amp will be built in a 100w Metro chassis with double can caps for the plates and screens.
I'm going to fab up my own turret board for this build, and will probably put the PI and pre-amp filter caps on the board, so that the PI cap isn't way down in the back corner like Marshall does it.
I'm just wondering if I should go 50w and save the cost of the 2 x EL34's, or would a 100w version be the better choice.
Some people say 100w amps have more punch, but is that just a straight volume thing, or does the bigger OPT actually sound better?
I've never had the opportunity to do a comparison of 2 different power versions of the same circuit.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Yes, all my 100 watters punch bigger and harder and move more air than my 50 watters with 50 watt output transformers it's just physics due to more more laminations and windings in the 100 watt output transformer.

If you want the 100 watt punch but save on two tubes you can build a 100 watter and then pull two tubes then cut your impedance by half. If you are using a 16 ohm cabinet then you would set the amp to 8 ohms or if an 8 ohm cab set the amp to 4 ohms. Even though the amp is running only two power tubes because of all the windings in the 100 output transformer the amp will still hit like a 100 watt amp.

If you want to build just a 50 watt amp and still want the 100 watt punch you can use the 100 watt output transformer and just like pulling two tubes in the 100 watter this configuration will still hit hard like a 100 watt amp with the 100 watt output transformer. You would just wire up the 8 ohm lead wire to the 16 ohm lug of the impedance selector from the 100 watt output transformer and the 4 ohm wire to the 8 ohm lug to the impedance selector. The 16 ohm wire from the output transformer would go unused.

The Mojave Scorpion was a 50 watt amp but it used a 100 watt output transformer just for this very reason. Here's the writeup on it.

https://legendarytones.com/mojave-ampworks-scorpion/

Design and Construction


Mojave Scorpion (Cover Removed)The Scorpion has components mounted on a turret board, wired up very cleanly in an all point-to-point fashion. To many amp and tone purists, this style of build is the best method to use even though it is much more labor and time-intensive. It’s how most tube amplifiers were built in the ’50s and ’60s and is virtually non-existent today as far as mass-production name brands are concerned.


The transformers and choke are custom-specified and built Mercury Magnetics units. The output transformer in particular is of interest. It’s a larger unit that would be seen more often in 100 watt models. Victor Mason states that there was more to this integration than simply taking a 100 watt specified output transformer and using it for the Scorpion’s 50 watt design.

Its all up to you, I would build the 100 watter just in case you ever want to load all 4 power tubes for full output but you can make a 50 watter hit like a 100 watter if you want.
 
fusedbrain said:
I'd like to build myself two JCM800 clones.
I have 2 unused ClassicTone " Marshall style" transformer sets: 50 & 100 watt laydown PT's, 50 &100w OPT's & 3H choke.
The amps will be built in 100w Metro chassis with double can caps for the plates and screens.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
I think they're going to be awesome! :rawk:
 
harddriver said:
Yes, all my 100 watters punch bigger and harder and move more air than my 50 watters with 50 watt output transformers it's just physics due to more more laminations and windings in the 100 watt output transformer.

If you want the 100 watt punch but save on two tubes you can build a 100 watter and then pull two tubes then cut your impedance by half. If you are using a 16 ohm cabinet then you would set the amp to 8 ohms or if an 8 ohm cab set the amp to 4 ohms. Even though the amp is running only two power tubes because of all the windings in the 100 output transformer the amp will still hit like a 100 watt amp.

If you want to build just a 50 watt amp and still want the 100 watt punch you can use the 100 watt output transformer and just like pulling two tubes in the 100 watter this configuration will still hit hard like a 100 watt amp with the 100 watt output transformer. You would just wire up the 8 ohm lead wire to the 16 ohm lug of the impedance selector from the 100 watt output transformer and the 4 ohm wire to the 8 ohm lug to the impedance selector. The 16 ohm wire from the output transformer would go unused.

The Mojave Scorpion was a 50 watt amp but it used a 100 watt output transformer just for this very reason. Here's the writeup on it.

https://legendarytones.com/mojave-ampworks-scorpion/

Design and Construction


Mojave Scorpion (Cover Removed)The Scorpion has components mounted on a turret board, wired up very cleanly in an all point-to-point fashion. To many amp and tone purists, this style of build is the best method to use even though it is much more labor and time-intensive. It’s how most tube amplifiers were built in the ’50s and ’60s and is virtually non-existent today as far as mass-production name brands are concerned.


The transformers and choke are custom-specified and built Mercury Magnetics units. The output transformer in particular is of interest. It’s a larger unit that would be seen more often in 100 watt models. Victor Mason states that there was more to this integration than simply taking a 100 watt specified output transformer and using it for the Scorpion’s 50 watt design.

Its all up to you, I would build the 100 watter just in case you ever want to load all 4 power tubes for full output but you can make a 50 watter hit like a 100 watter if you want.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info!
Never heard of that amp. I'll check it out.
 
fusedbrain said:
LOL :LOL:

I'm going to try to build me some awesome amps one at a time.
Looks like the JCM800 clone is gonna be a 100w.
Thanks guys! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Yeah, both are loud af and since we don't have to worry about that anymore it just comes down to the tone.

Just today I was playing my '80 'low voltage' 2204 with added gain stage (almost just like Redplated's add a stage) and it was sounding killer. But then you go back-to-back with a 100W and yeah, hundo for sure.
 
Yeah, with the load box, attenuator and IR tech we have these days, we have lots of ways to deal with the volume issue.
So it does come down to tone, and I'm just trying to build a real good representation of that classic 800 circuit.
You guys are all just kinda confirming what I thought would be the case, but it never hurts to ask.
Cheers (y)
 
MetalHeadMike said:
100w every time and every amp for me. Just feels different and deeper harder hitting more 3D low end. Just more punch/push/girth/depth to the tone to me.
Click to expand...
I agree 100 . But I’d add one thing . 100 watts don’t mush out or get saturated too fast . Makes things less tighter or more work too get there for me . But I play way cleaner gain wise than most
 
It is not apples to apples, but the Soldano SLO30 vs 100, if you listen to good comparison clips/videos you can hear the difference in the low end and the girth the 100 watts has vs 30.

I think 50w vs 100w you will see a volume difference of +3 to +6 dB
 
Have not read the thread so this is my opinion to your initial post. I had this discussion with @glpg80 once. The more watts the better. Better clarity, articulation, feel… everything. Maybe I’m crazy but that’s my opinion and findings. I might be correct because glpg80 agreed with me… and I think he knows a thing or two about a thing or two…so I recommend going with at least 4 kt-88’s…. Why? Because fuck it that’s why…
 
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