FEDS Raid Gibson Factories

[Atropos_Project]

Find out which guitar company did give campaign money to Obama and you'll have your answer as to why Gibson was raided.

Or, on the other side of the coin, find a US based guitar company that puts out a bigger volume of products that contain high end woods than Gibson.

Fender? Very little use of exotic woods in their guitars.

Martin? Taylor? Not even close.

Even a piano maker like Steinway (who's factory I've taken a tour of, it was rather cool to see) uses fairly common woods for the most part.

I'm not agreeing with what was done, or how it was carried out at all, but normally the 'biggest' are also the first targets in this sort of thing.

 

[Rogue]

Woah. This thread went real dumb, real quick.

 

[mikehickey]

He's just pissed off that they didn't give him a Custom Shop model....

 

[TeleBlaster]

I'm waiting for Holder to say he let it into the country so they could track it

And then they'll setup all the Arizona Gibson dealers into selling bunches of LP's to drug cartels who will smuggle them into Mexico.

 

[tweed]

He's just pissed off that they didn't give him a Custom Shop model....

Oh man, I could pull out the racist card about him being pissed that they gave a white Les Paul, but I'll refrain from that.

 

[Dr. Swamp]

Find out which guitar company did give campaign money to Obama and you'll have your answer as to why Gibson was raided.

Or, on the other side of the coin, find a US based guitar company that puts out a bigger volume of products that contain high end woods than Gibson.

Fender? Very little use of exotic woods in their guitars.

Martin? Taylor? Not even close.

Even a piano maker like Steinway (who's factory I've taken a tour of, it was rather cool to see) uses fairly common woods for the most part.

I'm not agreeing with what was done, or how it was carried out at all, but normally the 'biggest' are also the first targets in this sort of thing.

Um, Exotic wood? We're talking about Rosewood finger boards here.

Fender produces more guitars a year than Gibson, and also makes an entire Bass line that Gibson doesn't. They both make Acoustic guitars as well. Fender uses a TON of rosewood fretboards, likely as much as Gibson. They produce far more products per year than gibson does. Fender produces more Acoustics than Gibson, more electric guitars, and an entire bass line that Gibson has no market in. Just because they use maple fretboards on many instruments doesn't change that they use a comparable amount of Indian rosewood as Gibson, they produce much more volume over all.

Don't forget that Fender owns Jackson, Charvel, Hamer, Guild, Gretsch, Ovation and a few more guitar companies.

 

[stephen sawall]

This whole thing is just stupid. All of it ....

 

[LRStrat]

Here is Gibson CEO interview....
https://youtu.be/DMaUdwlVNfA
Why is the government busting into an American business armed with automatic weapons and treating their hard working employees like the drug cartel for possible (but not proven) illegal wood!?!? REALLY!?!?! Everyone should be outraged about this and voice this to their congressmen and senators! As far as I can see Gibson was never charged with any wrong doing from the 2009 raid.

 

[stephen sawall]

Here is Gibson CEO interview....
https://youtu.be/DMaUdwlVNfA
Why is the government busting into an American business armed with automatic weapons and treating their hard working employees like the drug cartel for possible (but not proven) illegal wood!?!? REALLY!?!?! Everyone should be outraged about this and voice this to their congressmen and senators! As far as I can see Gibson was never charged with any wrong doing from the 2009 raid.

Maybe someone should organize something ? This is pathetic ....

 

[mightymike]

Find out which guitar company did give campaign money to Obama and you'll have your answer as to why Gibson was raided.

Or, on the other side of the coin, find a US based guitar company that puts out a bigger volume of products that contain high end woods than Gibson.

Fender? Very little use of exotic woods in their guitars.

Martin? Taylor? Not even close.

Even a piano maker like Steinway (who's factory I've taken a tour of, it was rather cool to see) uses fairly common woods for the most part.

I'm not agreeing with what was done, or how it was carried out at all, but normally the 'biggest' are also the first targets in this sort of thing.

Um, Exotic wood? We're talking about Rosewood finger boards here.

Fender produces more guitars a year than Gibson, and also makes an entire Bass line that Gibson doesn't. They both make Acoustic guitars as well. Fender uses a TON of rosewood fretboards, likely as much as Gibson. They produce far more products per year than gibson does. Fender produces more Acoustics than Gibson, more electric guitars, and an entire bass line that Gibson has no market in. Just because they use maple fretboards on many instruments doesn't change that they use a comparable amount of Indian rosewood as Gibson, they produce much more volume over all.

Don't forget that Fender owns Jackson, Charvel, Hamer, Guild, Gretsch, Ovation and a few more guitar companies.

The Fed are also upset about the Ebony fretboards too. It would be one thing if this was about endangered species, and saving trees on the brink of extinction. If that were the case, and it was legit, I would have no problem with them making certain products illegal. Where I have a problem is that this doesn't seem to be about that, but more about discriminating against who can work the wood, the insanity of making it retroactive, and the gestapo mindset and appearance of political impropriety by going after Gibson (Owned by a Republican) This reminds me of the Chicago way they chose which car dealerships were closed...

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Find out which guitar company did give campaign money to Obama and you'll have your answer as to why Gibson was raided.

Or, on the other side of the coin, find a US based guitar company that puts out a bigger volume of products that contain high end woods than Gibson.

Fender? Very little use of exotic woods in their guitars.

Martin? Taylor? Not even close.

Even a piano maker like Steinway (who's factory I've taken a tour of, it was rather cool to see) uses fairly common woods for the most part.

I'm not agreeing with what was done, or how it was carried out at all, but normally the 'biggest' are also the first targets in this sort of thing.

Um, Exotic wood? We're talking about Rosewood finger boards here.

Fender produces more guitars a year than Gibson, and also makes an entire Bass line that Gibson doesn't. They both make Acoustic guitars as well. Fender uses a TON of rosewood fretboards, likely as much as Gibson. They produce far more products per year than gibson does. Fender produces more Acoustics than Gibson, more electric guitars, and an entire bass line that Gibson has no market in. Just because they use maple fretboards on many instruments doesn't change that they use a comparable amount of Indian rosewood as Gibson, they produce much more volume over all.

Don't forget that Fender owns Jackson, Charvel, Hamer, Guild, Gretsch, Ovation and a few more guitar companies.

The Fed are also upset about the Ebony fretboards too. It would be one thing if this was about endangered species, and saving trees on the brink of extinction. If that were the case, and it was legit, I would have no problem with them making certain products illegal. Where I have a problem is that this doesn't seem to be about that, but more about discriminating against who can work the wood, the insanity of making it retroactive, and the gestapo mindset and appearance of political impropriety by going after Gibson (Owned by a Republican) This reminds me of the Chicago way they chose which car dealerships were closed...

If this is not a wake up call, I don't what is. It doesn't take an armed SWAT Team to walk into a business and say, "Hi, I'm from the (insert government agency) and I'm here to inspect your wood and the documentation you have to support it's legality." This is your current government. Our elected officials have been selling out this country and trying to dismantle our economy for years now, even decades. We are headed into being an "Economic Slave Labor" country with the elites watching over us, just like most of the world. Nothing the government has done has been to help the people, it's been to help themselves. They use the "Flavor of the Day, poor old, neglected, Have Nots people need help" routine to try and justify their agenda with the populous. And the sad part is that they have dumbed down the population so well they get away with it. Just look at what our "Justice" Dept does and doesn't do, that will tell you a lot.

 

[luther910]

A lot of people are quick to blame anyone but the Gibson Company for this situation. Why then hasn't this kind of thing happened to other guitar makers in the U.S? And this is the second time they've been raided? Hm.

No, let’s put things into context here, and maybe look at how many feel that the Gibson’s current leadership has brought the brand downhill. Lots of misadventures with all sorts of crazy robot guitars, lacking production quality and what not. I imagine this must have cost them a lot of money and maybe tempted them to go for shortcuts they otherwise would have stayed away from?

 

[JTyson]

Find out which guitar company did give campaign money to Obama and you'll have your answer as to why Gibson was raided.

Or, on the other side of the coin, find a US based guitar company that puts out a bigger volume of products that contain high end woods than Gibson.

Fender? Very little use of exotic woods in their guitars.

Martin? Taylor? Not even close.

Even a piano maker like Steinway (who's factory I've taken a tour of, it was rather cool to see) uses fairly common woods for the most part.

I'm not agreeing with what was done, or how it was carried out at all, but normally the 'biggest' are also the first targets in this sort of thing.

Um, Exotic wood? We're talking about Rosewood finger boards here.

Fender produces more guitars a year than Gibson, and also makes an entire Bass line that Gibson doesn't. They both make Acoustic guitars as well. Fender uses a TON of rosewood fretboards, likely as much as Gibson. They produce far more products per year than gibson does. Fender produces more Acoustics than Gibson, more electric guitars, and an entire bass line that Gibson has no market in. Just because they use maple fretboards on many instruments doesn't change that they use a comparable amount of Indian rosewood as Gibson, they produce much more volume over all.

Don't forget that Fender owns Jackson, Charvel, Hamer, Guild, Gretsch, Ovation and a few more guitar companies.

The Fed are also upset about the Ebony fretboards too. It would be one thing if this was about endangered species, and saving trees on the brink of extinction. If that were the case, and it was legit, I would have no problem with them making certain products illegal. Where I have a problem is that this doesn't seem to be about that, but more about discriminating against who can work the wood, the insanity of making it retroactive, and the gestapo mindset and appearance of political impropriety by going after Gibson (Owned by a Republican) This reminds me of the Chicago way they chose which car dealerships were closed...

If this is not a wake up call, I don't what is. It doesn't take an armed SWAT Team to walk into a business and say, "Hi, I'm from the (insert government agency) and I'm here to inspect your wood and the documentation you have to support it's legality." This is your current government. Our elected officials have been selling out this country and trying to dismantle our economy for years now, even decades. We are headed into being an "Economic Slave Labor" country with the elites watching over us, just like most of the world. Nothing the government has done has been to help the people, it's been to help themselves. They use the "Flavor of the Day, poor old, neglected, Have Nots people need help" routine to try and justify their agenda with the populous. And the sad part is that they have dumbed down the population so well they get away with it. Just look at what our "Justice" Dept does and doesn't do, that will tell you a lot.

 

[Rogue]

A lot of people are quick to blame anyone but the Gibson Company for this situation....

A lot of people go with what they want to believe in the absence of information. Make no mistake, where there isn't thorough information available, conspiracies theories will thrive (some even thrive in the presence of thorough information).

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2011/08/26/details-from-the-gibson-guitar-search.html

In an affidavit filed in federal court, agent John Rayfield of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said U.S. Customs agents detained that shipment, alleging it not only violated portions of the Lacey Act but that Gibson officials falsely identified the contents.

Namely, the paperwork outlines allegations that Gibson knowingly changed the description of various imported wood shipments to circumnavigate laws that prevent certain raw materials from India entering the United States. Officials believe Gibson had a hand in identifying those shipments as finished parts for musical instruments, according to documents.

A warrant was obtained for the raid, which means ample evidence exists that suggests a potential crime enough for a court to order the warrant. People tend to forget we live in a country with laws and stuff. Falsifying information does not reflect well on the company.

The problem that I have is they haven't been charged with a crime. I can understand a raid to gather evidence, then charging (rather quickly) them, but I take issue with a raid 2 years ago in which they haven't been charged and are still "investigating". 2 years is way too long for them not to have been charged with a crime to justify the raid, IMO. Charge them or drop it and give them their shit back.

 

[Rogue]

It doesn't take an armed SWAT Team to walk into a business......

It wasn't an armed SWAT team my conspiracy minded friend.

This....

(Yes, over at the right is those two guys WALKING into Gibson)

is NOT this...

Sorry.

 

[Ventura]

I'm not sure what to make of it, overall it's a bit weird and does smack of police-state weirdness. I'm not sure it's anything to do with competing companies, or anything other than maybe some 'stupid' people, believing that something is going on that's actually not. These stupid people might be connected to other stupid people, and these other stupid people might be in positions to morally or vocationally olbige to stupid requests.

I mean, kinda like a kangaroo court to have done something similar 2 years ago, for....what?? And then do it again to - thus far in time - render the same results. Which is, sweet f*ck all.

Stupid people, stupid directives, stupid M.O.s, stupid results...least there's consistency.

 

[Spaceboy]

Too much unrelated rightwing doomsaying going in here.

 

[Mr. Willy]

Really hope this doesn’t mean the Firebird X will be delayed even more.

Or not..

I kinda like that guitar...

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Yeah, let's see, the D.o.J. is trying to enforce "their" interpretation of India's export law. And why, India is not crying foul? Their government is OK with the export of these woods and allowing it to be shipped. SO, why then is the Gibson company being singled out and not any other users of the same wood?

Many of you here who want to throw around the "Here go the conspiracy nut-jobs again" pitch we always hear need to pull your heads out of you asses.

http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@165 ... cb70819/20

Chuck Erikson - 04:05pm Aug 29, 2011 EST (#21 of 44)

Gibson�s prior Madagascar ebony and rosewood issue of the November, 2009 raid is one thing, but this new problem (August 24, 2011 raids on 4 locations) with Indian rosewood and ebony fingerboard blanks is another. It seems that India has regulations banning wood exports of anything over 6mm thickness unless it�s been worked beyond simply �sawn wood� inside their country. But it�s not possible to have India process fingerboard blanks any further into a slotted, shaped, inlaid and bound form, and the Indian Ministry of Trade is O.K. with that since the fingerboards aren�t raw lumber and actually have been worked on as far as reasonable. But the U.S. government is insisting that not going all the way makes the blanks �sawn wood� and thus illegal to export according to Indian law even though Indian authorities are fine with fingerboard blanks! Additionally, there�s been some understandable confusion with appropriate tariff code numbers; and also with having the boards drop-shipped from India to a broker and then a storage facility while being invoiced by LMII, especially since Gibson and not LMII are taking ultimate delivery. It�s bureaucratic harassment and abusive enforcement by agencies with almost total power and less than total understanding of their own regs.

LMII has done everything possible to establish conformance with the law and provide all documents, paper trails, chain of custody evidence, etc. But now they�re justifiably worried that big white trucks and heavily armed agents will show up unannounced at their address, a scenario they might not be able to survive. Even though the U.S. instrument industry accounts for but 1% of wood use here, they seem to be getting disproportionately targeted no matter how much such harassment might endanger the industry�s survival or how many jobs could be lost. It�s all expendable compared to such lofty goals as saving the planet from animal and plant exploiters and rapists!

If these charges hold up, then virtually all Indian ebony and rosewood fingerboard blanks used in the entire industry are illegal, and everyone�s wood inventories and instruments would be liable to seizure and harsh penalties. In fact, the same would apply to all guitar woods over 6mm thick originating in India. So, I�d imagine that all the big dogs are watching this very closely � as goes Gibson, so goes the whole industry. The U.S. government is quickly making it increasingly difficult for small as well as large businesses to survive rampant over-regulation.

(Private message me your email address and will send attachments of the full search warrant affidavit and Gibson�s official press release response.)

What can we do to revise badly written and unworkable regulations, and stop increasingly abusive enforcement? Let upcoming electoral candidates know there�s a very serious problem that�s quickly endangering a lot of domestic businesses and killing formerly healthy small international sales, as well as negatively impacting all musicians who travel out of the country. If this could become a campaign issue which highlights some of the deeply flawed and over-regulated current federal policies and could gain public support, it�s possible to change things.

Much of the problem has nothing at all to do with material from protected plant and animal species, but more to do with bureaucratic and regulatory demands involving non-listed species and costs that are impossibly complicated and unnecessary. In the case of genuine vintage and antique instruments (and many other non-instrument products) current enforcement practices are really nothing more than permission for federal agencies to vandalize and destroy priceless and irreplaceable objects, harass legitimate businesses, musicians, and collectors, and block many traditional exchanges between cultures.

To address a few points which seem to be causing confusion:

1) The issue isn�t at all about �sawed Indian ebony logs with paperwork identified as finger boards�. It�s about fingerboard blanks, and whether or not they can be considered a product involving enough native labor to satisfy the export laws of India. It�s also about a wrong (but closely related) tariff code being entered on only SOME of the paperwork.

2) What�s an acceptable product? As the agent himself pointed out in Gibson�s search warrant affidavit, there�s a distinction between a �fingerboard� (an unfretted wood blank of rough size) and a �fretboard� (which is slotted and contains fret wire). If so, then those are two different products, and as such it�s possible to have a fingerboard blank as distinguished from simply �sawn wood� � adding slots, wires, inlays, shaping and binding would make that blank into a related but different product. In the same way, we offer flat shell blanks, veneers, Abalam� sheets, and strips made to specifications according to what their intended use is: as materials which may or may not be remanufactured/incorporated into other types of finished products such as inlays, guitars, jewelry, furniture, fishing lures, and so on. Similarly, plywood is imported as a product unto itself without it needing to be in another and more final form such as furniture, boxes, or whatever.

To insist, as the U.S. agencies seem to be doing, that materials from India must be in their ultimate retail form is insane, especially in light of the Indian government not interpreting their own regs that way or insisting on such nonsense.

3) Compelling U.S. citizens to obey foreign laws isn�t exactly correct. The Lacey Act assumes that other entities (both foreign and domestic) know best how to manage their respective plant and animal resources, and it attempts to honor those regulations whether they be tribal, regional, state, federal, or foreign. Gibson�s ebony from India is being challenged on the basis of how our agencies interpret the laws of India, regardless of how India herself interprets them.

4) In applying for and accepting most federal permits (such as the USFWS Import/Export Permit), the document specifically states that by signing you have agreed to have authorities examine at any time they wish your premises, paperwork, and inventory. So it�s not an issue of unreasonable search and seizure.

What's confusing is that in the search warrant affidavit Agent Rayfield goes to some length in distinguishing an unslotted "fretboard" from a slotted and fretted "fingerboard" (Para. 13) as found on a finished instrument, and later (para. 22) distinguishes HS 9209.92.00 as "finished parts of musical instruments".

He also mentions (Para. 13) that "importers and exporters have sometimes referred to the sawn pieces of wood intended to be manufactured into fretboards as 'fingerboards' or 'fingerboard blanks'". But he contends that even though these may be informally referred to as "fingerboards" they're actually no more than "sawn wood" and being over 6mm in thickness are "sawn logs" (Para. 19 and 25) and thus a prohibited HS 4407 item (Para. 12).

So at issue is whether or not "fingerboards" exceeding 6mm are "finished parts for musical instruments" as would be allowed under HS 9209.92.00. If not, the argument is that they're "sawn logs" and illegal.

Chuck Erikson - 04:06pm Aug 29, 2011 EST (#22 of 44)

None of the shell currently used in the industry is "listed" (threatened, endangered, or protected), but border agents have more than once confused it with the couple of species which are, such as white ocean pearl oyster (Pinctada maxima) for the banned White abalone (Haliotis sorenseni), or Paua ab. (H. iris) for the protected Black ab. (H. cracherodii). An expert could easily distinguish these but border agents can't possible be specialists in all the thousands of things they need to deal with. Even if paperwork is correctly submitted it can still be challenged and the material sent to a government lab for testing (and you can be charged over $1000.00 for the lab work and a "storage" fee even if the government was wrong).

Lacey requires interstate shipments of fish or wildlife materials/products to be labeled as such on the outside of every container, with a full description attached either outside or inside (common and Latin species names, country of origin, and amount of each in metric volume or weight). No one has ever yet bothered to enforce this law, but if ever challenged that wouldn't be accepted as a defense. The interstate marking regulation does NOT apply to plant materials such as instrument woods.

Some things to keep in mind on all of this are that 1) CITES only applies at the international border; 2) the Lacey Act concerns materials already in the U.S., but along with demanding conformance to domestic tribal, state or federal laws (Endangered Species Act, Marine Mammal Protection Act, etc.) it also requires that no international laws were violated (such as CITES) or those of any country involved in the material�s origin or chain of custody.

The way this plays out in practice is that for any material already here in the states (which isn�t just outright illegal) it�s up to the U.S. agencies to prove that a violation has been committed, and that can�t be done without them producing either a paper trail or witnesses. So for any Brazilian rosewood that lacks paperwork, it might be questioned but can�t be confiscated or banned from use or sale. But as soon as that wood (or anything made from it) tries to leave the country the burden of proof changes and it�s then up to the owner to provide a paper trail proving it was imported legally or pre-ban.

If using paperless B.R. you should probably get the buyer to sign off on a statement saying they understand that the wood is legal within the U.S., but that it cannot be legally exported and that you will not be responsible for anything that happens if it is ever presented at the border. Include this on the invoice and/or on a document that stays in the instrument case (or maybe on the label?).

APHIS recently issued guidelines for getting exemption certificates on pre-2008 items (including guitars) which contain unknown woods or lack other information (but only if the wood is really not identifiable! http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... -codes.pdf

It�s also possible, at least theoretically, to get exemption certification on old paperless �legacy� or �estate� woods such as Brazilian by using the Plant and Plant Product Declaration Form PPQ-505, and this is the same form used to register pre-ban wood that has legitimate documents. The APHIS agent who spoke at June�s ASIA meeting asked for a show of hands among the hall full of luthiers of anyone who had attempted to get certification based on a simple written statement of fact, and no hands went up. He said that although uncommon, there have been allowances made for a clear and detailed written history when no actual paper trail was available, and that the luthier community should give this a try. Write up as much detailed history on your old wood as you can recall, noting names, dates, locations, the amount involved in the original transaction, and the exact amount of wood now being held; if possible, contact anyone involved in the original deal, or any other witnesses, and get them to write up and sign supporting statements. Have this material notarized and submit it, along with the required application fee, and see what happens. I have a luthier friend who at this moment is doing exactly that, so we�ll see what happens!

Chuck Erikson - 03:16pm Sep 1, 2011 EST (#40 of 44)

I've had 3 antiques confiscated (one worth over $1,000.00, and another about $6,000.00), and many others have also been seized from antique dealers for many years now.

Famously, shortly after 9/11, Krystian Zimerman, the great Polish concert pianist had his piano confiscated by customs officials at New York's JFK airport, who thought the glue smelled funny. They subsequently destroyed the instrument. For several years he chose to travel with just the mechanical insides of his own piano and install them - he is a master piano repairer, as well as player - inside a Steinway shell he borrowed from the company in New York. In 2006 he tried to travel with his own piano again, only to have it held up in customs for five days and disrupt his performance schedule. (From http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/ap ... nce-poland )

Read the regs (for instance, see: http://vlex.com/vid/sec-exceptions-1923 ... z1MrjAR8Vg, http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/10-53-antiques-19649449, http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/14-22-certain-a ... s-19893452 ) -- antiquities are specifically mentioned and are hugely impacted, and only a few confiscated items would ever pass through a forensics lab. Larger airports commonly feature cased displays of seized items and there are always multiple ivory and tortoiseshell antiques with some dating back to the mid-1800's.

Sure, there's technically a way to apply for exemption certificates but without original sales receipts an appraisal has to be paid for, paperwork needs to be notarized, and application fees paid. These costs and the extremely long wait for approval make the system impossible to deal with, especially for items with lower or mid-range values.

For an Antique, ESA (composed in whole or in part of any endangered or threatened species) item, you must state that it was manufactured or removed from the wild over 100 years ago, and has not been repaired or modified with any part of any such species on or after December 28, 1973. All of this can be extremely difficult or totally impossible to determine, even for an expert, and without an actual paper trail (which most antiques lack) verifying actual species, countries of origin, and specific dates is hugely problematic.

Chuck Erikson (AKA Duke of Pearl) - 07:33pm Sep 1, 2011 EST (#41 of 44)

A Letter From NAMM to President Obama and Members of the U.S. Congress

September 1, 2011

We are writing today on behalf of the music products industry to express deep frustration over a regulation that is impacting music products manufacturers as well as retailers and owners of musical instruments in the U.S. The National Association of Music Merchants (NAMM) is a 110-year-old trade association representing the interests of manufacturers, retailers and distributors of musical instruments. Many of NAMM's nearly 9,000 member companies are being negatively impacted by the Lacey Act, a well-intentioned law, but one with unintended consequences that we feel are damaging to our industry and the economy.

The Lacey Act was first enacted in 1900 and amended most recently in May of 2008 to include criminal liability for importing, owning, transporting or selling plant material that is illegally harvested, the wide range of interpretation possible in the law and lack of regulatory clarity has resulted in great difficulty in compliance. The confusion is due in large part to the law's ambitious scope, including enforcement of the laws from all other countries that are the source of these natural materials

The recent high profile raid (multiple federal agencies with automatic weapons) of Gibson Guitars, a leading NAMM member company in Tennessee, compounded with the slow response on needed guidance for compliance that we have been seeking has created fear and uncertainty for all those involved in the manufacturing, distribution and retailing of instruments and increasingly, artists and owners of musical instruments.

NAMM members care deeply and are committed to the ecologically sustainable use of tone woods for the production of musical instruments.

We understand that long-term success depends upon future availability of these materials to build and sell the iconic instruments that have defined America's popular music traditions. NAMM member products are valued and played around the world and are some of our country's most recognizable exports. Most NAMM members are small businesses employing local artisans and others who are passionate about music and music education. They produce jobs, pay taxes and support their communities.

We cannot state strongly enough the impact that this confusion, uncertainty and threat of criminality are having on our industry even when intentions of due care and compliance are followed and documented. We have concrete ideas on how to improve the law and are ready to work with Members of Congress and federal agencies to make positive changes that will fulfill the intended vision of the Lacey Act and preserve not only the world's forests, but the vital work of U.S. manufacturing and commerce in the music products industry.

Sincerely,

Kevin Cranle

Chairman, NAMM
President, Willis Music Company

Joe Lamond
President and CEO, NAMM

Chuck Erikson - 03:53am Sep 2, 2011 EST (#42 of 44)

For anyone who may have heard it, the August 31st NPR piece was a seriously flawed story, since no one seems to have done their background research: other than involving Gibson, the two raids over 1 1/2 years apart had little or nothing to do with each other, contrary to what was reported. The first raid concerned endangered Madagascar woods allegedly logged illegally in a national forest (yet to be charged or proven); the latest raids involve non-endangered woods logged in Indian government controlled sustainably managed plantations, brought into the U.S. (as they have been for almost 20 years, by everybody) with full paperwork from both the Indian authorities and certification from the FSC.

Gibson�s August 24th raid issue isn�t as straightforward as it seems, since it was LMII who actually ordered and bought the wood, to satisfy a sale of theirs to Gibson; but rather than take delivery in CA and then spending money reshipping to Nashville, LMII simply had the wood drop-shipped (a common business practice) to the people who are in charge of warehousing woods for Gibson (so it wasn't going directly to Gibson's plant address). Gibson wasn't the one bringing the wood in, it was being imported by LMII.

As for the tariff code, it was entered wrongly on only some, not all, of the paperwork -- something LMII had spotted and was in the process of correcting (but unable to get an agency response to). Inconsistent tariff codes are something that's happened on a couple of our own shell import shipments when some desk jockey at the brokerage decides to change the correct tariff codes we supply (thus instantly converting a load of shell blanks into a shipment of "jewelry", for instance!).

Here's a statement from Natalie Swango at Luthiers Mercantile International (LMII), who imported the wood involved in Gibson's latest raids:

�The exporter entered the correct code for his country's export according to Indian customs. I incorrectly listed Gibson as the consignee on the Lacey paperwork...the material was destined for them, but at this time LMI owns and is (was, ?) warehousing it. The broker made a mistake and listed the material as veneers, although all other paperwork correctly listed it as fingerboards (they have remedied this with an oops letter). The warehouse employee incorrectly informed the feds as to the ownership (although they bill me for the storage fees). The officers incorrectly came to the conclusion that we are smuggling wood.�

This wood is from sustainable sources which are tightly regulated by the Indian government, and not from endangered or protected forests. And it's not just governmental permission that's involved but approval from deep-ecology non-governmental organizations (NGO's) that have done intensive on-site investigations from the trees to the mills right on through the entire custodial chain of those who have anything to do with handling the woods. For instance, certification by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC, at http://www.fsc.org), or the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA, at http://www.eia-global.org and http://www.forestlegality.org). These various watch-dog groups are working tightly with the guitar industry (among others) to provide trustworthy documentation for legally and responsibly harvested materials, while making it as hard as possible for suspect suppliers to survive.

Sure, there are a lot of woods native to the U.S. (and Australia, and other places) from which instruments can be built, but they're not at all equivalent in terms of stability, glueability, workability, finishability, durability, or acoustics. And there's no good reason to work with either acoustically or esthetically inferior materials as long as environmentally friendly sources remain available and support needed jobs in suffering economies.

And regardless of what anyone may think about the current or past administrations, or any political party, these people and parties have almost nothing to do with most of these laws which have been around for decades or longer, and which suffer from being overly vague or self conflicting; or with government agencies which refuse to communicate with each other, or lack familiarity with their own regulations; or with individual agents who are eager to build a reputation; or with the psychology of people who hold tremendous power.


Chuck Erikson - 05:17pm Sep 2, 2011 EST (#44 of 44)

I can personally verify that LMII (who shipped the Indian wood to Gibson) physically holds notarized paperwork dated July 13th, 2011, from the Government of India Ministry of Commerce and Industry and signed by Daya Shankar, the Deputy Director of Foreign Trade, which states under �Subject � Clarification regarding export of Fingerboards made of Rose Wood and Ebony� that "�the Fingerboards made of Rose wood and Ebony [ITC (HS) Code 92099200] is freely exportable", and that "This issues with the approval of Director General of Foreign Trade.�

 

[Rogue]

Yeah, let's see, the D.o.J. is trying to enforce "their" interpretation of India's export law. And why, India is not crying foul? Their government is OK with the export of these woods and allowing it to be shipped. SO, why then is the Gibson company being singled out and not any other users of the same wood?

I showed you what was on the affidavit. If true, Gibson knowingly violated the law and falsified documentation. The feds have not made clear exactly what laws were broken, so anything beyond that is speculation. Non-conspiracy theorists cannot say why Gibson is being "singled out", because contrary to popular internet truthiness, we don't know what exactly it is they are supposedly in trouble for. This, of course, is a discerned, honest view...the bane of the conspiracy theorist's existence.

That said, the feds need to charge Gibson with something or leave them the fuck alone.

Oh, and why exactly do you believe, of all the companies out there that are non-union, didn't vote democrat, larger than Gibson, and what ever other horseshit is being spewn around the blogosphere, Obama singled out Gibson? Just because? I look forward to seeing the hoop jumping.

Many of you here who want to throw around the "Here go the conspiracy nut-jobs again" pitch we always hear need to pull your heads out of you asses.

I try to see things from your perspective, but my head won't fit along side yours in your ass.