For the Early Van Halen freaks....Brown Sound

[bmf5150]

Stan, I don't think the person is who is claiming to be but it might be someone who was around VH back in the day.

Here is the thing, the weird settings on the slave amp was because Eddie was supposedly running his main amp into a dummy load which had a built in step down circuit (Mark Cameron can explain it better..Think of it as a line out with a cap/variable pot across it to tame the level even more) He ran that signal Into the front end of another marshall. The second marshall was set rather clean with a bit of grit and when the loaded Marshalls signal hit it, it would distort more giving him the sound. i think of it as adding gain stages by linking the two amps together. Now where that differs from regular slaving is that you would normall bypass the preamp stages and go straight to another power amp stage at the slave amp. Ed essentially plugged one amp into another and the only reason why it would work is because Jose built him the load box with the step down. These days you would never plug into the input of another amp because you have effects loops.

i hear ya!!

 

[stratotone]

Dimed internal bias pot, burning through Sylvania 6CA7s (which can take a beating unlike any modern tube) frequently.

THAT will be the one thing that people today cannot and will not replicate.

Depending on how much the variac was cutting the voltage though, it might not be quite as bad on the tube as it sounds.

 

[BleedingEdge]

Dimed internal bias pot, burning through Sylvania 6CA7s (which can take a beating unlike any modern tube) frequently.

THAT will be the one thing that people today cannot and will not replicate.

Depending on how much the variac was cutting the voltage though, it might not be quite as bad on the tube as it sounds.

Though he was burning through them so regularly (per many reports) that I imagine it was still far, far beyond anything that today would be recommended as safe. I accidentally biased some Siemens EL34s in my Wizard up to 90 or so and that was the closest I got to an EVH-hot sound the traditional way - no slaved setup but with EP3, GE10, bud box phase 90, corded MXR flanger, 20W greenbacks, etc. Those tubes were pushed big time. I quickly realized my mistake and turned them down, and thought, yeah, no use in trying to attain the EVH tone in the traditional way. No need to risk starting a fire. Better to do it in a non-traditional way - of which there are many, I think.

 

[degenaro]

I have to try this. Ralph, is there a way to slave my Superbass into my 2210? I want to use the superbass for gain and the 2210 for power. I currently have two cabs at my house, both 16 ohm. And where in the chain does the delay go? If it sounds good I'll post some clips! Thanks!

Sup Bro!

here is the thing. Any of the current attenuators wont have a step down transformer meaning that if you send the signal into the input of another amp it will sound like shit. With that said and since I know how you play you could load down the Superbass with a hotplate and send that signal to your effects and then to the return of your 2210. it will sound sick!

Ralphie I love ya man.,..but you're mixing shit up. Step down has nothing to do with nothing here.
VH used the variac to lower the B+, which just levelled out him going nuts on the bias.
The resistor he used to use was a 30 some ohm Ohmite resitor, so to make that ball park the same run the amp set to 4 ohm into an 8 ohm load or 8 ohm into a 16 ohm load. And most attenuators with a line-out do have a level control. If it's too hot, you have a ground issue and you need to lift the shield on one side of the cable connecting the line-out

Then when you look at the settings for his amps he used as power amps you can see that he clearly dealt with loading a Marshall down into the front...

 

[stephen sawall]

Cool thread .... Thanx guys.

 

[shredhead7]

i tried slaving my metroamp plexi into my home made load box with a line level out into my friends 50 watt plexi.it sounds ok,i like the added gain but its kind of nasaly sounding with not enough lows,i played with every eq config on the amp i could think of.,as well as various gain settings. .i like going through my peavey clasic 120+120 power amp better than the other marshall 50 watt plexi.it just sounds better...

Ed also ran through an EQ in between the load box and the second amp, probably for the reasons that you're stating. (the pics on Metro's site have an eq on his pedal boards from 77-79)

 

[ZachMN]

Umm I take anything someone says with a grain of what angle are they playing; trust your ears and experience. Someone posted something about Templeman and Landee being responsible BINGO! Ed has said that in interviews that it was Landee who 'got the sound' specifically on Eruption. Here is an interesting site with my cut and paste from it below:
http://www.cathedralstone.net/Pages/VanHalen.htm


'The first two photoographs from the upper left are from the Van Halen II sessions in Studio 1 at Sunset Sound in LA. The third photo is an old 1958 photo of the Putnam 610 console used as the primary console for Sunset Sound in the original Studio 1. This console was used on everything from Frank Sinatra recordings to the music and sound for Walt Disney movies of that era. It was this console that engineer Don Landee used on many of the early Van Halen recordings. Don would use the preamps in the 610 because of their unique sound. This was also the console that was used to record the Beach Boys Pet Sounds, The Doors LA Women, etc. The console designer, Bill Putnam, was also responsible for many other audio tools that are still considered the best, today. These include the Teletronix LA2A and Urei 1176LN compressors. Bill's sons have recently re-opned Universal Audio, and have begun making faithful clones of the classic LA2A and 1176LN, as well as the 610 console preamps (the Universal Audio 2-610 preamp). Below is a photo of Eddie Van Halen recording some tracks during the same VHII session. Notice the Echoplex on the floor.'

'
Above to the left is the footprint of Studio 1 at Sunset Sound, and Studio 2 is to the right where they recorded Diver Down. To the lower left is the band in the Studio 1 control room with the custom API console during the same Van Halen II session. There are other websites that cover the early Eddie Van Halen set-up, so I won't go into it. However, one thing that has been over looked and is very rarely, if ever, mentioned is the fact that Don Landee used the Urei 1176LN on all of Ed's early guitars, and gave his sound a very distinct character. The 1176LN has a very open sound, but also has a shimmering kind of aggressive bite. The 1176LN has a class A discrete amplifier on it's output stage that adds that openness. To nail the early VH studio tone, you absolutely need this in the equation. In the photo to the lower left, you can see three Urei 1176LN's in the rack between Eddie and Alex. These are the units that each have a VU meter to the right. To the lower right is Eddie's infamous Marshall Plexi 100w Super Lead. It's a blown up picture, so it's a bit distorted, but you can clearly see the Sylvania 6CA7 USA big bottle power tubes in the back. Check out this RIAA Van Halen II platinum award.

'
Above is a photo of Eddie's pedals he used live circa 1978. It's actually a close up of the Day on the Green photo above. It's a little hard to identify them all, but some are a bit obvious. Let me know what you think, and I'll post the results later. Below to the left is a flyer advertising an October 1, 1976 live show for the band before their record deal via Gene Simmons. Talk about a cool band to have play at your birthday bash!! Click on the flyer to see a bigger image of it. The photo to the lower right is just an enlarged version of the photo located on the flyer. Notice the miked Marshall Plexi stacks in the background, and Eddie looks like he's still in junior high.

 

[bmf5150]

look at this page of this thread,here you can hear a clip of what it sounds like too.
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=555

"45auto wrote:
ok, i took the ~12 series dropped down to ~85vac & maxed into the UA as a load & out the lineout to my jtm45 into my iso cab with a scummy LHDC (with the large dust cap) oh yeah, used a 10 band in front. ran the jtm45 controls like Robin L suggested (bass on 10 vol. I on like 2-3) all other tone controls all the way down. it sounds pretty cool, but still too middy & "cuppy" in the midrange. the floyd sounds like a floyd. i think maybe the 56/250 tone stack would be closer in this case possibly. excuse the goofy meandering.

https://soundclick.com/share?songid=7429880"

your middy,cuppy sound is the same results i got this weekend when we tried to slave my 100 watt plexi into my buddies 50 watt plexi.switch from the slave amp to the peavey classic 120+120 amp i lost some gain but the freq sounded better,fatter in the lows and better in the highs.it was like the freq response filled out.i wonder how 6l6s would do in the slaved power marshall plexi?any thoughts?stan

 

[amiller]

Boy, Ed sure gets a lot of attention here for an over the hill old guy. Great thread!

 

[Gainfreak]

I have to try this. Ralph, is there a way to slave my Superbass into my 2210? I want to use the superbass for gain and the 2210 for power. I currently have two cabs at my house, both 16 ohm. And where in the chain does the delay go? If it sounds good I'll post some clips! Thanks!

Sup Bro!

here is the thing. Any of the current attenuators wont have a step down transformer meaning that if you send the signal into the input of another amp it will sound like shit. With that said and since I know how you play you could load down the Superbass with a hotplate and send that signal to your effects and then to the return of your 2210. it will sound sick!

Ralphie I love ya man.,..but you're mixing shit up. Step down has nothing to do with nothing here.
VH used the variac to lower the B+, which just levelled out him going nuts on the bias.
The resistor he used to use was a 30 some ohm Ohmite resitor, so to make that ball park the same run the amp set to 4 ohm into an 8 ohm load or 8 ohm into a 16 ohm load. And most attenuators with a line-out do have a level control. If it's too hot, you have a ground issue and you need to lift the shield on one side of the cable connecting the line-out

Then when you look at the settings for his amps he used as power amps you can see that he clearly dealt with loading a Marshall down into the front...

Im sure Im mixing something up brother but I was told by Mark that the o/p comming out of the dummy load that Jose made had a 4:1 ratio. In other words the o/p was bumprd down a bit because he was hitting the slave out into the front of another amplifier instead of going to another power section Maybe that will explain it better?

 

[Digital Jams]

Great thread!

I should try the SLP into the MK IV power section since the eq is in the signal path still.

 

[degenaro]

I have to try this. Ralph, is there a way to slave my Superbass into my 2210? I want to use the superbass for gain and the 2210 for power. I currently have two cabs at my house, both 16 ohm. And where in the chain does the delay go? If it sounds good I'll post some clips! Thanks!

Sup Bro!

here is the thing. Any of the current attenuators wont have a step down transformer meaning that if you send the signal into the input of another amp it will sound like shit. With that said and since I know how you play you could load down the Superbass with a hotplate and send that signal to your effects and then to the return of your 2210. it will sound sick!

Ralphie I love ya man.,..but you're mixing shit up. Step down has nothing to do with nothing here.
VH used the variac to lower the B+, which just levelled out him going nuts on the bias.
The resistor he used to use was a 30 some ohm Ohmite resitor, so to make that ball park the same run the amp set to 4 ohm into an 8 ohm load or 8 ohm into a 16 ohm load. And most attenuators with a line-out do have a level control. If it's too hot, you have a ground issue and you need to lift the shield on one side of the cable connecting the line-out

Then when you look at the settings for his amps he used as power amps you can see that he clearly dealt with loading a Marshall down into the front...

Im sure Im mixing something up brother but I was told by Mark that the o/p comming out of the dummy load that Jose made had a 4:1 ratio. In other words the o/p was bumprd down a bit because he was hitting the slave out into the front of another amplifier instead of going to another power section Maybe that will explain it better?

That makes sense you need instrument level to go in the front end of another amp. And as I said there are ways to get line-level down to instrument without padding it.

 

[mentoneman]

fwiw,
i took the line out of the peacemaker's hotplate into a replex delay, then into the front input of the coyote, which was great because i could eq the wet tone and mama mia did that rock.