Friedman vs Cameron

SBlue

Active member
I wonder if someone else, besides Mark, serviced that amp, or messed with it trying to copy it, at some point.
I still haven't played a Cameron modded amp that wasn't extremely tight sounding, specially the low end.
One thing to consider, and not to be confused with, is that Cameron amps and mods are extremely tight, but they are not stiff, or dry sounding. And they do bounce and sag like nothing else out there, without losing attack or note definition.
I think Psycodave is right. It might be time for a check up on that amp.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
I wonder if someone else, besides Mark, serviced that amp, or messed with it trying to copy it, at some point.
I still haven't played a Cameron modded amp that wasn't extremely tight sounding, specially the low end.
One thing to consider, and not to be confused with, is that Cameron amps and mods are extremely tight, but they are not stiff, or dry sounding. And they do bounce and sag like nothing else out there, without losing attack or note definition.
I think Psycodave is right. It might be time for a check up on that amp.
Honestly the difference between 10am, and even 9 am on the gain dial is pretty drastic. 9am is all you need and you can even go lower. That’s why it sounds a bit congested. It has maybe the most gain available of any amp I’ve ever played. It doesn’t sound bad but when you put some volume to it, that’s when you realize it needs dialing back. But that amp at volume with the right amount of gain dialed in is a monster. Low end is prevalent and you can’t completely dial it out, but with the gain low it’s manageable
 

CNutz

Well-known member
Friedman sounds little tighter, and a bit clearer. The Cameron sounds similar, but a little looser.

From my experience playing with these circuits, the Cameron probably has .1uf caps on the PI out, and maybe 68k grid stopper on V1

change those to .022uf, and 33k, and the Cameron will be clear, and tight.
 

itsme

Active member
Is there a reason Dave went to this ugly ass blacked out look? As if the ugly black rims on cars weren't enough...
 

RedPlated

Well-known member
Isn't this amp a 3 in 1 mod or something? I'd assume values are compromised to accommodate all 3 variations built into the amp. That may be the issue here.

I'd drop the 1st to 2nd stage coupling cap value, which is likely .022 to .0022. I prefer dropping the bass earlier rather than in the PI. Although .1uf are a bit large for my tastes, if that's what it's got. The Cameron Ocean I looked at had .022 PI output caps. Could even try .047 there. A 1 meg resistor from a 1 meg gain pot (or MV, or both) outer lug to ground will clear things up a bit too, making it 500k. In reality it'd be best to subtract small amounts of bass from different areas rather than all in one spot.
 

LP Freak

Well-known member
Isn't this amp a 3 in 1 mod or something? I'd assume values are compromised to accommodate all 3 variations built into the amp. That may be the issue here.

I'd drop the 1st to 2nd stage coupling cap value, which is likely .022 to .0022. I prefer dropping the bass earlier rather than in the PI. Although .1uf are a bit large for my tastes, if that's what it's got. The Cameron Ocean I looked at had .022 PI output caps. Could even try .047 there. A 1 meg resistor from a 1 meg gain pot (or MV, or both) outer lug to ground will clear things up a bit too, making it 500k. In reality it'd be best to subtract small amounts of bass from different areas rather than all in one spot.
I had a three channel Cameron...Aldrich, Jose and clean that sounded stellar so I’d say that’s not it. Not every Cameron is a winner though. Just the way it is.
 

psychodave

Well-known member
Isn't this amp a 3 in 1 mod or something? I'd assume values are compromised to accommodate all 3 variations built into the amp. That may be the issue here.

I'd drop the 1st to 2nd stage coupling cap value, which is likely .022 to .0022. I prefer dropping the bass earlier rather than in the PI. Although .1uf are a bit large for my tastes, if that's what it's got. The Cameron Ocean I looked at had .022 PI output caps. Could even try .047 there. A 1 meg resistor from a 1 meg gain pot (or MV, or both) outer lug to ground will clear things up a bit too, making it 500k. In reality it'd be best to subtract small amounts of bass from different areas rather than all in one spot.
Changing the pot impedance is something Mark despises. He and I talked about it one time and there are much better ways to skin the cat.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
I had a three channel Cameron...Aldrich, Jose and clean that sounded stellar so I’d say that’s not it. Not every Cameron is a winner though. Just the way it is.
I can assure you guys that the Jose channel is killer on that amp ...the Aldrich is a little thin but can be boosted; and the clean is great. Loop is great. Jose just needs a ‘less is more’ Re-eq. I’ve had a shit ton of modded Marshall’s and that was the best of all of them..only exception might be a modern mod I had long ago. Better than the 5 Aldrich and 1 ocean. But the Jose can get out of control if not dialed in right
 

RedPlated

Well-known member
Changing the pot impedance is something Mark despises. He and I talked about it one time and there are much better ways to skin the cat.
What’s funny is that the Friedman circuit in this clip uses the same method, a 1 Meg to ground from the entrance to the MV pot. At least the BE100 does. I’d assume the Deluxe does too.

I’ve lifted the 1 Meg on a Friedman and it’s way better with it. Cameron may not like it but I prefer it in a lot of my amps.

Mark does quite a few Jose masters. Maybe he doesn’t like the 500k MV with zeners. I’ve been meaning to experiment with that actually.
 
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Friedman - Respectable guy who has built an empire delivering some killer products starting from the ground up while working with some Legends.
Spot on.

...also...love the XYZ riffage.

Thanks for your time in providing the comparison. This is my dream Friedman amp. Currently just running his BE-OD Deluxe into my Marshall 1923/1960A rig puts smiles on my and listeners faces. Met Dave at Gearfest and he is super nice and personable. Massive community contributor and Tone-Talk's are some of my favorite online viewing.
 

Beyond Black

Well-known member
My buddy had a white Cameron Jose 2204 that had a ton of low end and was very thick and loose. But with the bass rolled way back and a clean boost it was about as good as it gets. It still haunts me that I didn’t buy it when he moved it.
 
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