Glad to be an independent thinker

  • Thread starter Thread starter espquade
  • Start date Start date
I would agree that under Democratic leadership it seemed like the flood gates were open to let everyone in no matter their background/ criminals/etc,

What I'm seeing now is an extreme example of removing everyone with tan skin without any due process as they have been detaining hard working immigrants with work visa's and separating families as well, and look if there is someone who has been here lets say 10 years and is a business owner and pays their taxes and makes a meaningful contribution to the American way of life, but didn't become a citizen shouldn't there be a different option to be under a review case by case to give them the opportunity to become a lawful citizen instead of just ripping these people from their family's and communities and deporting them???
Do you like it when someone jumps the line and now you have to wait longer for your table or worse don't get a seat?
That's what I equate people who came here illegally to regardless of how long or what contributions they have made. Why should they get to cut in front of those who are trying to come in through the full legal process. Deportation is the equivalent to no cuts, now get your ass to the back of the line and wait your turn.

BTW, due process does not mean court proceedings. It just means basic procedure was followed. This can be as simple as we've reviewed the paperwork and your VISA has expired. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
 
Yes — **undocumented workers contribute significantly** to the U.S. economy, even though their legal status prevents them from receiving most public benefits. Here’s how:

---

### **1. Labor and productivity**

* There are an estimated **10–11 million undocumented immigrants** in the U.S., and around **7–8 million** are part of the labor force — that’s about **4–5% of all U.S. workers**.
* They are heavily represented in **agriculture, construction, food processing, hospitality, and service industries**, where their labor helps keep prices lower and fills chronic labor shortages.
* The **U.S. Chamber of Commerce** and **Farm Bureau** have both stated that removing all undocumented workers would cause severe economic disruption and reduce GDP.

---

### **2. Taxes paid**

Despite lacking legal status, most undocumented immigrants **pay taxes**:

* About **50–75%** pay **federal, state, and local taxes** using **Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs)** or false Social Security numbers.
* The **IRS** estimates that **undocumented immigrants contribute around $9–13 billion each year** to Social Security and Medicare — even though they cannot collect those benefits later.
* The **Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)** found they pay roughly **$11.7 billion per year** in state and local taxes (sales, property, income).

---

### **3. Economic impact**

* The **Center for American Progress** estimated that deporting all undocumented workers would **reduce U.S. GDP by about $1.6 trillion over 20 years.**
* In states like California, Texas, and Florida, undocumented labor is essential to keeping agriculture, construction, and food industries running smoothly.
* Many undocumented workers are also **consumers** — they rent homes, buy food, cars, and pay utilities — supporting local businesses.

---

### **4. Net fiscal effect**

* They **contribute more in taxes** than they consume in public services, because they are **ineligible** for most federal programs (no Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, or welfare).
* Some local costs (education, emergency healthcare) do exist, but multiple economic studies — including by the **Cato Institute** (a libertarian think tank) — conclude that **their net effect is positive or close to neutral**, especially at the federal level.

---

✅ **In short:**
Undocumented workers **boost U.S. GDP**, **support key industries**, and **pay billions in taxes** — often **without any access** to the benefits their taxes fund. Economists across the political spectrum generally agree they make a **net positive contribution** to the U.S. economy.

Would you like a breakdown by industry — showing how much undocumented labor adds to sectors like farming, construction, and hospitality?
 
Illegal is illegal, sorry. Don’t break our laws. I’m thinking independently, the United States is a nation of laws. I still would like to know how an “illegal (brown, black, white, yellow, etc.) is contributing? I love how the left always makes it about “brown skin”, so fucking pathetic. How in the hell do you even get a SS number to pay taxes if you are a criminal who entered the country illegally?
I have no idea how they are paying taxes without a SS number? I have read some stuff about this happening but you do bring up a very valid point (y)
 
Yes — **undocumented workers contribute significantly** to the U.S. economy, even though their legal status prevents them from receiving most public benefits. Here’s how:

---

### **1. Labor and productivity**

* There are an estimated **10–11 million undocumented immigrants** in the U.S., and around **7–8 million** are part of the labor force — that’s about **4–5% of all U.S. workers**.
* They are heavily represented in **agriculture, construction, food processing, hospitality, and service industries**, where their labor helps keep prices lower and fills chronic labor shortages.
* The **U.S. Chamber of Commerce** and **Farm Bureau** have both stated that removing all undocumented workers would cause severe economic disruption and reduce GDP.

---

### **2. Taxes paid**

Despite lacking legal status, most undocumented immigrants **pay taxes**:

* About **50–75%** pay **federal, state, and local taxes** using **Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs)** or false Social Security numbers.
* The **IRS** estimates that **undocumented immigrants contribute around $9–13 billion each year** to Social Security and Medicare — even though they cannot collect those benefits later.
* The **Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)** found they pay roughly **$11.7 billion per year** in state and local taxes (sales, property, income).

---

### **3. Economic impact**

* The **Center for American Progress** estimated that deporting all undocumented workers would **reduce U.S. GDP by about $1.6 trillion over 20 years.**
* In states like California, Texas, and Florida, undocumented labor is essential to keeping agriculture, construction, and food industries running smoothly.
* Many undocumented workers are also **consumers** — they rent homes, buy food, cars, and pay utilities — supporting local businesses.

---

### **4. Net fiscal effect**

* They **contribute more in taxes** than they consume in public services, because they are **ineligible** for most federal programs (no Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, or welfare).
* Some local costs (education, emergency healthcare) do exist, but multiple economic studies — including by the **Cato Institute** (a libertarian think tank) — conclude that **their net effect is positive or close to neutral**, especially at the federal level.

---

✅ **In short:**
Undocumented workers **boost U.S. GDP**, **support key industries**, and **pay billions in taxes** — often **without any access** to the benefits their taxes fund. Economists across the political spectrum generally agree they make a **net positive contribution** to the U.S. economy.

Would you like a breakdown by industry — showing how much undocumented labor adds to sectors like farming, construction, and hospitality?
Good info here. Thanks for this!
 
I have no idea how they are paying taxes without a SS number? I have read some stuff about this happening but you do bring up a very valid point (y)
Despite lacking legal status, most undocumented immigrants pay taxes:

* About 50–75% pay federal, state, and local taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) or false Social Security numbers.
* The IRS estimates that **undocumented immigrants contribute around $9–13 billion each year** to Social Security and Medicare — even though they cannot collect those benefits later.
* The **Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)** found they pay roughly **$11.7 billion per year** in state and local taxes (sales, property, income).
 
Despite lacking legal status, most undocumented immigrants pay taxes:

* About 50–75% pay federal, state, and local taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) or false Social Security numbers.
* The IRS estimates that **undocumented immigrants contribute around $9–13 billion each year** to Social Security and Medicare — even though they cannot collect those benefits later.
* The **Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)** found they pay roughly **$11.7 billion per year** in state and local taxes (sales, property, income).
You can JD couch it any way you want.

Paying taxes DOES NOT give you a free pass to be here illegally.

Taxes aren't above the law.

If the country suffers a bit to fuck off the illegals that's fine but remember, less population means less demand, less wear and tear on the infrastructure. Less emissions etc.
 
Couch Boy's daily mantra...

I Reject Your Reality And Replace It With My Own GIFs | Tenor
 
In May 2025, Miller held a meeting with top ICE/Homeland Security leadership in Washington in which he is reported to have criticized them for focusing too much on immigrants with criminal records. He allegedly said things like “What do you mean you’re going after criminals?” and asked why ICE agents weren’t conducting arrests in places like Home Depot or 7-Eleven — locations where undocumented immigrants often gather for work.

I understand that for many of you there is no distinction between a 15 year old undocumented girl going to school, and a hardened drug dealer. I would point out that

Entering the U.S. illegally (unlawful entry) is a misdemeanor under 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a).

Why does US immigration policy bother you so much? It can't be affecting new zealand much, if at all?
 
Despite lacking legal status, most undocumented immigrants pay taxes:

* About 50–75% pay federal, state, and local taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) or false Social Security numbers.
* The IRS estimates that **undocumented immigrants contribute around $9–13 billion each year** to Social Security and Medicare — even though they cannot collect those benefits later.
* The **Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)** found they pay roughly **$11.7 billion per year** in state and local taxes (sales, property, income).
Supporting illegal immigration fucks over legal immigrants. There's no 2 ways about it.
 
You can JD couch it any way you want.

Paying taxes DOES NOT give you a free pass to be here illegally.

Taxes aren't above the law.

If the country suffers a bit to fuck off the illegals that's fine but remember, less population means less demand, less wear and tear on the infrastructure. Less emissions etc.

They don't actually pay taxes. The US gets some tax revenue from illegals, sure, but it's completely dwarfed by what illegals actually "cost. "

And that isn't even counting how it ruins the employment/ job market for actual citizens, or how it overloads the education system, or how much wear and tear it puts on infrastructure.


This is how people lie with "Statistics" to impress midwits who don't understand complex issues.
 
You can JD couch it any way you want.

Paying taxes DOES NOT give you a free pass to be here illegally.

Taxes aren't above the law.

If the country suffers a bit to fuck off the illegals that's fine but remember, less population means less demand, less wear and tear on the infrastructure. Less emissions etc.
It also means less farm hands, less workers for the poultry plants, less factory workers etc , basically a ton of the agriculture industry as it seems as many Americans don't want those jobs and if they did they would demand higher wages which would mean higher grocery costs among other things. It's a trickle down effect that comes out of your pocket one way of another.
 
It also means less farm hands, less workers for the poultry plants, less factory workers etc , basically a ton of the agriculture industry as it seems as many Americans don't want those jobs and if they did they would demand higher wages which would mean higher grocery costs among other things. It's a trickle down effect that comes out of your pocket one way of another.
I 100% believe a cultural change needs to happen and people need to accept a job is a job and if they need money they'll work doing whatever and if they don't, they starve.

Wage reform? Sure, it already happens now, along with inflation, and will continue until the end of time. It's a dog chasing its tail and again, it's always been in play.

If people aren't happy about it they can relocate to Mexico and get their workers down there to work for them.

Based on your logic borders should not exist and if that's the case why bother having a military that protects our borders. In fact, no borders and no governments for the entire planet.

There's many ways to skin a cat and people have choices for themselves to manage through this.
 
It also means less farm hands, less workers for the poultry plants, less factory workers etc , basically a ton of the agriculture industry as it seems as many Americans don't want those jobs and if they did they would demand higher wages which would mean higher grocery costs among other things. It's a trickle down effect that comes out of your pocket one way of another.
Fear of losing labor in not an affirmative defense for allowing people to stay in the country illegally. If people don't want keep paying more for things, they'll have to face reality that they are going to have to get off their asses and work again.
 
Back
Top