Got my Metroamp back!!

[tweed]

Wait. Stop the press!

The key to the tone (this week) is the MXR Dist+!!!

yeah, Im not hearing it. It's really scary because I think that some of ralles and Marks clips are pretty much killer and closer then the MXR clip. Teh MXr is adding a compression to the tone that I don't hear in VH. I guess that's part of the chasing teh dragon thang

Who the hell are you guys trying to kid? You can only get this tone if you're playing guitar in short pants with no shirt. Everyone knows that not wearing a shirt while playing and exposing your man boobs is THE KEY to THE TONE.

 

[Digital Jams]

The REAL secret..............................

 

[Meathead]

the master thing sounds like it enhances the power tube *compression* and breakup factor, which gives it that looser legatoey thing, and then it becomes more a matter of eq shaping away the buldging lows as the highs seem to compress into a pretty smooth tone naturally.

that's why vic normally rolls the bass volume off off the peacemaker to clear up the lows and let the cab resonate clearly ala george lynch "sacred groove", demartini "you're in love/lay it down" and landau "i'm buzzed"

i think that's what the queensryche boys referred to as the "aunch" tone...like revving a dirt bike where the initial attack is fatter and the bite almost comes after the punch.

it always made sense to me that if you could derive your breakup/gain from the power tubes instead of the preamp tubes it would sound bigger and clearer and less fizzy, although based on my experience, it is much less fluttery hair trigger robogain, and treble notes have way more dynamics and authority.

guys like paul gilbert, vai, and guthrie could make huge tone improvements if they went more in that direction.

Very well said...great points...I agree with all of it as that's the tone feel I love.

 

[Meathead]

The REAL secret..............................

My next purchase...pre rola reissues.

 

[mentoneman]

The REAL secret..............................

My next purchase...pre rola reissues.

the speaker deal is really critical as it will also shape that breathing blooming plexi growl, and tame and shape some of the "mechanical" circuit treble. i was perfectly happy with my compliment of celestion speakers, until i heard an old cream/grey back celestion. it has this sweet cry (not the bad kind) and smooth balance that seemed to make my modern speakers sound rather cheap.

the PAF lower output pickup influence allows the string to sound and feel more expressive and not get too low-mid/bass flooded or overly compressed, so that the gtr responds more like an acoustic to finger pressure and pick nuances.

and the vintage tube characteristics can expand the range of the tone controls and make the tone deeper and more 3D.

and then there's the amp

i actually owe a great deal of my vh tone edumacation to vic. it was one thing to hear those clips on the net back in the day, but to stand face to face with his peacemaker prototype rig, see how he had everything set, examine how each piece of the puzzle worked, and hear THAT sound pouring out...amazing.

 

[degenaro]

he still cranked the crap out of the amp but the master adds a certain thing to the sound. I think that more people will believe when Mark(Rockstah) Posts clips of the Jose master.
I think Everything that Mark Cameron has said is pretty much spot on and I agree with him 100%.

YOU ROCK Bruthah!!

~R~

the master thing sounds like it enhances the power tube *compression* and breakup factor, which gives it that looser legatoey thing, and then it becomes more a matter of eq shaping away the buldging lows as the highs seem to compress into a pretty smooth tone naturally.

that's why vic normally rolls the bass volume off off the peacemaker to clear up the lows and let the cab resonate clearly ala george lynch "sacred groove", demartini "you're in love/lay it down" and landau "i'm buzzed"

i think that's what the queensryche boys referred to as the "aunch" tone...like revving a dirt bike where the initial attack is fatter and the bite almost comes after the punch.

it always made sense to me that if you could derive your breakup/gain from the power tubes instead of the preamp tubes it would sound bigger and clearer and less fizzy, although based on my experience, it is much less fluttery hair trigger robogain, and treble notes have way more dynamics and authority.

guys like paul gilbert, vai, and guthrie could make huge tone improvements if they went more in that direction.

Record the line-out of a load box and take a look at the wave form. A lot of questions regarding compression and saturation will be answered.

 

[Digital Jams]

he still cranked the crap out of the amp but the master adds a certain thing to the sound. I think that more people will believe when Mark(Rockstah) Posts clips of the Jose master.
I think Everything that Mark Cameron has said is pretty much spot on and I agree with him 100%.

YOU ROCK Bruthah!!

~R~

the master thing sounds like it enhances the power tube *compression* and breakup factor, which gives it that looser legatoey thing, and then it becomes more a matter of eq shaping away the buldging lows as the highs seem to compress into a pretty smooth tone naturally.

that's why vic normally rolls the bass volume off off the peacemaker to clear up the lows and let the cab resonate clearly ala george lynch "sacred groove", demartini "you're in love/lay it down" and landau "i'm buzzed"

i think that's what the queensryche boys referred to as the "aunch" tone...like revving a dirt bike where the initial attack is fatter and the bite almost comes after the punch.

it always made sense to me that if you could derive your breakup/gain from the power tubes instead of the preamp tubes it would sound bigger and clearer and less fizzy, although based on my experience, it is much less fluttery hair trigger robogain, and treble notes have way more dynamics and authority.

guys like paul gilbert, vai, and guthrie could make huge tone improvements if they went more in that direction.

Record the line-out of a load box and take a look at the wave form. A lot of questions regarding compression and saturation will be answered.

I would think that the only thing I would see is any diode type clipping? Break-up would still be part of the wave form.

I do agree that power section break-up would be more pleasing to the vintage ear and that would be seen on an o-scope via "strands" off of the carrier wave form.

Killer thread.

 

[degenaro]

I would think that the only thing I would see is any diode type clipping? Break-up would still be part of the wave form.

I do agree that power section break-up would be more pleasing to the vintage ear and that would be seen on an o-scope via "strands" off of the carrier wave form.

Killer thread.

Why diode clipping? I'm not talking zooming into the sample level and looking at the sine wave. I'm talking about just looking at the wave form of a say 1 minute piece as oppossed to the wave form of a miked track.
I was dealing with the guys at Waves when they were measuring shit and totally freaking out about the line-out on the load being compressed. I told them to tap the libe before the load and compare it because it was one of the the load compresses-which it doesn't. Bottomline...just like gain in the pre-amp stage, when using a power section as a gain stage (loading it down) it will look like a casceded pre-amp stage. Not that that really should be any surpise.

So why doesn't it do it when using the load of a speaker? It does, but since a speaker reacts different to different frequencies, and until you compress everything inluding the actual air around the speaker it'll be more open, or as Ralph said more AC/DC like.

As for evh, i'VE SEEN THE PICTURES OFF THE BACK THAT WOULD AGREE WITH HIS STATEMENT SEEING THAT HE HAD A 30 OHM oHMITE RESITOR ON IT...damn caps lock, sorry.

 

[mentoneman]

I would think that the only thing I would see is any diode type clipping? Break-up would still be part of the wave form.

I do agree that power section break-up would be more pleasing to the vintage ear and that would be seen on an o-scope via "strands" off of the carrier wave form.

Killer thread.

Why diode clipping? I'm not talking zooming into the sample level and looking at the sine wave. I'm talking about just looking at the wave form of a say 1 minute piece as oppossed to the wave form of a miked track.
I was dealing with the guys at Waves when they were measuring shit and totally freaking out about the line-out on the load being compressed. I told them to tap the libe before the load and compare it because it was one of the the load compresses-which it doesn't. Bottomline...just like gain in the pre-amp stage, when using a power section as a gain stage (loading it down) it will look like a casceded pre-amp stage. Not that that really should be any surpise.

So why doesn't it do it when using the load of a speaker? It does, but since a speaker reacts different to different frequencies, and until you compress everything inluding the actual air around the speaker it'll be more open, or as Ralph said more AC/DC like.

As for evh, i'VE SEEN THE PICTURES OFF THE BACK THAT WOULD AGREE WITH HIS STATEMENT SEEING THAT HE HAD A 30 OHM oHMITE RESITOR ON IT...damn caps lock, sorry.

i really didn't follow that first part clearly, so are you saying that the loaded signal really doesn't show signs of compression on a wave form, and is actually just the effects of power tube cascading gain i am hearing and experiencing?

about the vh 30ohm resistor...is that turning the magic marshall amp into a giant distortion box for reamping, or do speakers also get fed from that amp?

 

[degenaro]

I would think that the only thing I would see is any diode type clipping? Break-up would still be part of the wave form.

I do agree that power section break-up would be more pleasing to the vintage ear and that would be seen on an o-scope via "strands" off of the carrier wave form.

Killer thread.

Why diode clipping? I'm not talking zooming into the sample level and looking at the sine wave. I'm talking about just looking at the wave form of a say 1 minute piece as oppossed to the wave form of a miked track.
I was dealing with the guys at Waves when they were measuring shit and totally freaking out about the line-out on the load being compressed. I told them to tap the libe before the load and compare it because it was one of the the load compresses-which it doesn't. Bottomline...just like gain in the pre-amp stage, when using a power section as a gain stage (loading it down) it will look like a casceded pre-amp stage. Not that that really should be any surpise.

So why doesn't it do it when using the load of a speaker? It does, but since a speaker reacts different to different frequencies, and until you compress everything inluding the actual air around the speaker it'll be more open, or as Ralph said more AC/DC like.

As for evh, i'VE SEEN THE PICTURES OFF THE BACK THAT WOULD AGREE WITH HIS STATEMENT SEEING THAT HE HAD A 30 OHM oHMITE RESITOR ON IT...damn caps lock, sorry.

i really didn't follow that first part clearly, so are you saying that the loaded signal really doesn't show signs of compression on a wave form, and is actually just the effects of power tube cascading gain i am hearing and experiencing?

about the vh 30ohm resistor...is that turning the magic marshall amp into a giant distortion box for reamping, or do speakers also get fed from that amp?

The wave form is squashed like crazy, because the amp essentially becomes a giant OD pedal.
As for the 30 ohm resistor. I was always under the impression that it was used to knock the output down, but it's comceivable that he used it as a load, and/or a wet/dry thing.

 

[degenaro]

To illustrate the point...
Cranked head...first two track are mikes, then a DI from the guitar, then the line-out from the amp...you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[mentoneman]

To illustrate the point...
Cranked head...first two track are mikes, then a DI from the guitar, then the line-out from the amp...you can see what I'm talking about.

yeah that's what i expected. big thick wave!

and i do have to say, that vic's early peacemaker rig was created in large part around the use of the THD hotplate, which i still think sounds better than just power dampening.

 

[degenaro]

To illustrate the point...
Cranked head...first two track are mikes, then a DI from the guitar, then the line-out from the amp...you can see what I'm talking about.

yeah that's what i expected. big thick wave!

and i do have to say, that vic's early peacemaker rig was created in large part around the use of the THD hotplate, which i still think sounds better than just power dampening.

Lets put it like this...as soon as there is an attenuator that does what I need better than a Hot Plate you won't see this...

 

[Chubtone]

That's why I never even had the Power Dampening installed on my Peacemaker. I like the way it sounds so much with the THD Hot Plate. I've compared "Hot Plating" to Power Dampening and because of the Deep Boost button on the Hot Plate I like that sound better. Other guys swear by the dampening.

 

[Gainfreak]

That's why I never even had the Power Dampening installed on my Peacemaker. I like the way it sounds so much with the THD Hot Plate. I've compared "Hot Plating" to Power Dampening and because of the Deep Boost button on the Hot Plate I like that sound better. Other guys swear by the dampening.

A few guys I know like the combo of Power Dampening and the Hotplate. I think that is the route Id have to go if I owned a peacemaker because the volume would still be to loud even on the most attenuated setting. Well id have to either do that or slave the amp to a poweramp to tame the volume.

 

[offa]

Do you guys prefer using a tube poweramp over SS when slaving? Since you're keeping the signal clean, I suppose a good SS poweramp would more than sufffice...

 

[Meathead]

I liked the Hotplate as long as it wasn't set below -12 (which was still pretty damn loud for home playing)
I don't fault the Hotplate though, I believe the speakers need to be moving a bit or they are 'starved' for signal and sound thin/unnatural.

The closest thing that comes to cranked amp tone at really low volumes that I have found is my Tonelab LE through my recording setup.
I don't expect a head and cab to pull that off at TV watching volumes.

 

[Meathead]

To illustrate the point...
Cranked head...first two track are mikes, then a DI from the guitar, then the line-out from the amp...you can see what I'm talking about.

That bottom one could also be a miked 5150.

 

[ratter]

Ok, so where's the f'ing clips already?!

 

[Gainfreak]

Do you guys prefer using a tube poweramp over SS when slaving? Since you're keeping the signal clean, I suppose a good SS poweramp would more than sufffice...

Ive always prefered tube Poweramps for slaving. Tried solid state poweramps many times and always came back to tubes for the slave, always sounded and felt much better.

To also add insult to injury, a lot of people use solid state poweramps for slaving because ofwhat EVH said. )He said that the solid state power section was better to use because it was clean. The thing that I found hysterical was that Eddie supposedly used H&H poweramps which used mosfet technology to try and make them clip or more tube like!! It will save you money on tubes busing a SS amp but you shoul dtry both to see what you like!!