Greatwhite fire at the station in RI video, terrible tragedy

[9ball]

My brother-in-law is a fireman that was on the scene that night and told me he's never seen anything like what he saw in that doorway. People COULDN'T get out...they were stacked 5 and 6 people high.

that's what i'm saying i don't understand. i'm not saying "i'd do this or that" whatever- i'm saying i watched the video, and i saw all the people piled up at the doorway, and a few guys helping to pull a few people out, but for the most part- they were all just stuck there and they were there for like a few minutes before the place really went up.
i'm saying that i don't understand how they could just all be "stuck" without at least starting to get out one by one a little at a time. i mean how can a person not at least wiggle out of that if they were at the door, providing a little room for the crowd to move up a little bit at a time you know? i don't get it.
if you do a search on the internet you can find a layout of the place and it's rooms- and exits,ect, and where they found the bodies. it looked like there were 2 or 3 more doors to the place - i wonder if they had them blocked off or what? and they found a few people in the bathrooms that's horrible.
so did the club owner and the fire marshall who signed off on his club permit ever come up on charges or what?

 

[simbasa]

i don't understand how these people could just pile up on top of each other at the door and just be stuck there as long as they were. i mean they just all stopped and just bunched up at the door and they just stayed there for a good few minutes before the place went up- how could none of them move at all?
i mean i don't understand how that could happen unless they were all just so completely drunk that they couldn't move. i would start climbing over piled up bodies if i had to but i would get my ass out of there.

if it were me on the camera- he walked right up to the people stuck in the door and just kept taping- i would have put the camera down and started pulling people out of the way but then i wouldn't have a good youtube video i guess. jeez

What gets me, is why is that one guy just walking around by the entrance not helping? Not the cameraman, but there's another guy just walking by not doing anything. And yes, the jerk with the camera should have put the stupid camera down and helped to try to pull people out of that doorway.

It's called shock. Some people get affected by it and others get a rush of adrenaline that allows them to overtake their fears. Don't blame anyone. Also, the camera guy got some valuable footage for reference for fire science, for mistakes to learn from. People learn from mistakes. Always have, always will. This could actually save people in the future. There were already too many people trying to help, one could argue. It's like 20 people calling 911 for the same emergency......and I have been at emergency scenes with too many people trying to help and actually causing more problems.

 

[SkyhighRocks]

that's what i'm saying i don't understand. i'm not saying "i'd do this or that" whatever- i'm saying i watched the video, and i saw all the people piled up at the doorway, and a few guys helping to pull a few people out, but for the most part- they were all just stuck there and they were there for like a few minutes before the place really went up.
i'm saying that i don't understand how they could just all be "stuck" without at least starting to get out one by one a little at a time. i mean how can a person not at least wiggle out of that if they were at the door, providing a little room for the crowd to move up a little bit at a time you know? i don't get it.
if you do a search on the internet you can find a layout of the place and it's rooms- and exits,ect, and where they found the bodies. it looked like there were 2 or 3 more doors to the place - i wonder if they had them blocked off or what? and they found a few people in the bathrooms that's horrible.
so did the club owner and the fire marshall who signed off on his club permit ever come up on charges or what?

They couldn't wiggle out...have you ever had 4 or 5 people stacked on top of you with full pressure? Imagine that times 20...because they were all stacked up like 5 or 6 bodies back in the building too. 500 or so people were trying to get out 1 door at once....

There were other exits...but located where people never went. People were also stuck in the bathrooms...there were no doors anywhere near the bathrooms....or windows.

The fire marshall got nothing...and he was probably the one that should have gotten more than the others. He passed that building with a good inspection many times. One of the owners got 4 years and the other got community service....the band manager got 4 years too I think. They're both out now I believe.

 

[jerrydyer]

someone said they all got out. no they did not. quite a few died correct?

 

[simbasa]

My brother-in-law is a fireman that was on the scene that night and told me he's never seen anything like what he saw in that doorway. People COULDN'T get out...they were stacked 5 and 6 people high.

that's what i'm saying i don't understand. i'm not saying "i'd do this or that" whatever- i'm saying i watched the video, and i saw all the people piled up at the doorway, and a few guys helping to pull a few people out, but for the most part- they were all just stuck there and they were there for like a few minutes before the place really went up.
i'm saying that i don't understand how they could just all be "stuck" without at least starting to get out one by one a little at a time. i mean how can a person not at least wiggle out of that if they were at the door, providing a little room for the crowd to move up a little bit at a time you know? i don't get it.
[/quote]


Easier said than done. You have the person next to you trying to get out as well. Panic sets in for most people. Rationality flies out the door. You're sitting here looking at this situation rationally from the comfort of your cozy chair.

 

[SkyhighRocks]

someone said they all got out. no they did not. quite a few died correct?

100 people died...over 200 injured.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

someone said they all got out. no they did not. quite a few died correct?

Supposedly 100+ people died.

 

[9ball]

Easier said than done. You have the person next to you trying to get out as well. Panic sets in for most people. Rationality flies out the door. You're sitting here looking at this situation rationally from the comfort of your cozy chair.

yeah i guess. i just watched it again without skipping forward. i guess it wasn't really that long.
when that thick black smoke started filling up the rooms people went nuts i guess.
makes me wonder about some of the places i've been in to watch concerts.
but what- did the owners have doors chained shut and shit? i can't believe they aren't still in jail.
i don't think anything like that could happen at pops in sauget- they have a big open area floor plan and a big 2 door exit on the side. i could definitely see that happening at the pageant though - a very narrow/crowded entrance- but i would hope to think that place has a decent sprinkler system, ect.

 

[Chris6870]

I understand how people could not get out. I saw Megadeth in 2001 in a small club that holds maybe around 1000 people. It was so packed in there I was really nervous because you could not move, no matter where you were. We spent a better part of the show trying to find a spot where we weren't being crushed. We ended up hanging by the back door just to breathe the fresh air and not get crushed. we couldn't see a thing from where we were. I could not imagine what would have happened in there if a fast moving fire broke out. It took my friend and I about twenty minutes to move from one side of the club to the other. It would have been pure chaos in that place if it had to be evacuated a hurry.

 

[SkyhighRocks]

Easier said than done. You have the person next to you trying to get out as well. Panic sets in for most people. Rationality flies out the door. You're sitting here looking at this situation rationally from the comfort of your cozy chair.

yeah i guess. i just watched it again without skipping forward. i guess it wasn't really that long.
when that thick black smoke started filling up the rooms people went nuts i guess.
makes me wonder about some of the places i've been in to watch concerts.
but what- did the owners have doors chained shut and shit? i can't believe they aren't still in jail.
i don't think anything like that could happen at pops in sauget- they have a big open area floor plan and a big 2 door exit on the side. i could definitely see that happening at the pageant though - a very narrow/crowded entrance- but i would hope to think that place has a decent sprinkler system, ect.

problem is that people/customers only came in that one door when entering the building...that's all they knew. The other doors were pretty much out of sight...especially when the black smoke started. My friend said he couldn't see anything an inch in front of him.

 

[Rogue]

That video is horrific even though it didn't show anyone dying. People were being burned alive as that was being shot.

 

[9ball]

i guess it's good to watch to keep in mind what is possible and to keep your own safety in mind, but that shit just straight up gave me the fuckin creeps.

 

[Anonymous]

fuck me.

i remember how this changed my whole perspective of gigging in strange venues back when this happened. there are some real firetraps here in the tri-state area that i wouldnt even dream about seeing a band with pyro in.

how about the somewhat sense of relief you feel when you hear the fire engine sirens..but then the utter disgust when they cant even turn the fucking hoses on.

such a tragic, unnecessary shame.

 

[thiswaythatway]

My brother-in-law is a fireman that was on the scene that night and told me he's never seen anything like what he saw in that doorway. People COULDN'T get out...they were stacked 5 and 6 people high.

that's what i'm saying i don't understand. i'm not saying "i'd do this or that" whatever- i'm saying i watched the video, and i saw all the people piled up at the doorway, and a few guys helping to pull a few people out, but for the most part- they were all just stuck there and they were there for like a few minutes before the place really went up.
i'm saying that i don't understand how they could just all be "stuck" without at least starting to get out one by one a little at a time. i mean how can a person not at least wiggle out of that if they were at the door, providing a little room for the crowd to move up a little bit at a time you know? i don't get it.
if you do a search on the internet you can find a layout of the place and it's rooms- and exits,ect, and where they found the bodies. it looked like there were 2 or 3 more doors to the place - i wonder if they had them blocked off or what? and they found a few people in the bathrooms that's horrible.
so did the club owner and the fire marshall who signed off on his club permit ever come up on charges or what?

Have you ever played football with your friends and been piled on by 3 or 4 people? You ain't getting up. There was close to 500 people heading for a doorway that was what....3 feet wide. If one person in that crowd trips then people behind them trip and you have a pile up. The diagram shows that 31 people died right near that doorway, I'm willing to bet at least half of them were crushed to death. They were in a panic and bad things happen. I bet you'd have a pile up at that door if only 15 people ran for it at the same time, let alone 500 people.

 

[FIREBALL]

 

[9ball]

Have you ever played football with your friends and been piled on by 3 or 4 people? You ain't getting up. There was close to 500 people heading for a doorway that was what....3 feet wide. If one person in that crowd trips then people behind them trip and you have a pile up. The diagram shows that 31 people died right near that doorway, I'm willing to bet at least half of them were crushed to death. They were in a panic and bad things happen. I bet you'd have a pile up at that door if only 15 people ran for it at the same time, let alone 500 people.

yeah well like i said i watched it again without bumping the video forward and saw how quick the place went up.
i knew of the fire before- but never saw this video until it was posted here.
i think it's something people who like to watch bands should see. just if nothing else to know to always keep your head on a swivel in some of these places.
from my time in the navy i know that in a combustibles fire it's the smoke that gets you before the fire actually does and this shows how fast the smoke overtook everyone in the place.
really something to keep in mind. if nothing else but for a lesson learned about crowded spaces.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Have you ever played football with your friends and been piled on by 3 or 4 people? You ain't getting up. There was close to 500 people heading for a doorway that was what....3 feet wide. If one person in that crowd trips then people behind them trip and you have a pile up. The diagram shows that 31 people died right near that doorway, I'm willing to bet at least half of them were crushed to death. They were in a panic and bad things happen. I bet you'd have a pile up at that door if only 15 people ran for it at the same time, let alone 500 people.

yeah well like i said i watched it again without bumping the video forward and saw how quick the place went up.
i knew of the fire before- but never saw this video until it was posted here.
i think it's something people who like to watch bands should see. just if nothing else to know to always keep your head on a swivel in some of these places.
from my time in the navy i know that in a combustibles fire it's the smoke that gets you before the fire actually does and this shows how fast the smoke overtook everyone in the place.
really something to keep in mind. if nothing else but for a lesson learned about crowded spaces.

I know of one place i played at years ago that was a death trap. Only had 2 exits and it was mobbed often. And I've yet to be in a situation where there's a general panic and i hope i never do. I can't imagine the terror that was present at the Station. Sad thing is, if they had a sprinkler system and fire extinguishers then it could have been avoided.

The band manager really did the right thing if you lookup what happend in the following years. He accepted all the blame.

 

[9ball]

I know of one place i played at years ago that was a death trap. Only had 2 exits and it was mobbed often. And I've yet to be in a situation where there's a general panic and i hope i never do. I can't imagine the terror that was present at the Station. Sad thing is, if they had a sprinkler system and fire extinguishers then it could have been avoided.

The band manager really did the right thing if you lookup what happend in the following years. He accepted all the blame.

i have been reading about it. it seems like the owners got off easy to me. i think i read something about the fire marshall signing off on some fucked up shit as well.

anyways- i remember a steamed out shaft alley and a ship's generator blowing up when i was in the navy is all i can compare to this. nothing like this though. this would be like a lube oil fire filling the plant with smoke. worst case scenario. horrible - horrible way to die and i'm glad this was posted because i can remember a couple years ago i went to POP's to see megadeth and i went up on the balcony to get a better view and that was stupid because of the huge crowd.
but i'll say again the pageant- i'd bet they have sprinkler systems put in by the plumbers and pipefitters union but if they don't that place is a disaster waiting to happen lol. being "new construction" though i'd be willing to bet they're up to code. they pretty much have to be i guess.
just such a shame. what a coupe of well marked exits could have done for the station. even POP's has a huge exit on the side leading out to the smoking sponson.