Help getting the specific 'grind' in these old clips?

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Lurchhammer

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I've been trying to get a very specific element of this 'Rockman type of saw/grind/buzz/grit/clipping' whatever you call it to add to my sound. Can anyone tell me what I'm hearing in common of the rhythm guitars in these clips? They all have a specific chainsaw type of distortion/grit in common that is very unique and not smooth- very aggressive! Almost like a solid-state type of clipping or effect. Is it a Rockman, an effect like a stuck-chorus, or a pitch harmonizer +/- 12 cents, or maybe even 2 tracks just a few millisec delayed? Maybe it's something the studio added not even in the guitar tone? I know pushed plexi's are probably the base foundation of the sound, but what I'm looking for is that specific extra 'sizzle/frying' sound that's in these clips. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyePfnR3DmA&sns=em 0:00 to 0:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMZkF8JDuk 0:00 to 0:17 then bigger from 0:18 to 0:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d45HmdK0b5E 0:26 to 0:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZBExczoGc 0:05 through 0:25 (*Bonus! check out 3:20 to 4:15, it sounds exactly like old Yngwie like in Steeler!)
 
Hey, you're Pat O'Brien's buddy, right ? Cool !

All the clips you referenced are 80's clips. For sure, 80's era studio equipment and techniques can play a part in those tones. Also keep in mind those guys were all using nothing newer than mid-80's gear, judging from the time period those tunes were released, including the obvious like amps, but also speakers and tubes. All that old stuff has a certain character thats almost impossible to attain with newer gear IMO.
 
I dont hear Rockman in any of those clips. The 1st clip of Lynch, Ive read a lot saying he recorded that album with Randall RG80's. I had one, and it def has a buzzsaw quality to it, but sounded great for lead tone's being pushed with a TS9. The other tones all were hotrodded Marshalls to my ear. I think your hearing the way these were recorded, in conjuction with the speakers being used and the amps themselves. Modded Marshall, or Marshall pushed with a good OD, G12M/G12H Celestions, and a good engineer, and your there. I do like all these sounds, but hard to reproduce without a bit of studio magic dust.
 
Yeah all those clips are favorite songs of mine as well.
I played some of the Accept in this clip I made when messing around with a new amp I had modded.
GO to about the 3:35 spot in the clip.
Sounds ok in the Clip....but super killer in the room. Very "grindy" as you mention for sure. :yes:
 
Yeah all those clips are favorite songs of mine as well.
I played some of the Accept in this clip I made when messing around with a new amp I had modded.
GO to about the 3:35 spot in the clip.
Sounds ok in the Clip....but super killer in the room. Very "grindy" as you mention for sure.
Click to expand...
That amp sounds great. Really aggresive. Not trying to get away from the orginal topic.
 
gtrwun":f49lq1yf said:
Yeah all those clips are favorite songs of mine as well.
I played some of the Accept in this clip I made when messing around with a new amp I had modded.
GO to about the 3:35 spot in the clip.
Sounds ok in the Clip....but super killer in the room. Very "grindy" as you mention for sure.
Click to expand...
That amp sounds great. Really aggresive. Not trying to get away from the orginal topic.
Click to expand...
Thanks man....Best $700 I ever spent! :D
Brand new amp....modded...Tranny upgrade...sounds killer for that kind of music.
We do Judas Priest....Accept....Maiden....all the bands from that era and the Grind the OP is looking for is there for sure. :thumbsup:
 
IMO.....G12H speakers will take you a long way in getting "grind". They are super aggressive to my ears with a saw-tooth like quality.
 
I met White Zombie/Prince's guitar tech in the 90's, he told me there was a common trick used my metal players, it's a way you set a flanger not for effect but to get a "buzzsaw"-type midrange, I don't remember the details, but I've heard other guys talking about it too but for the life of me can't remember how it's done. I don't know if it's a specific brand of flanger pedal that you need or not. I'm sure there are some guys on this forum that may know what I'm talking about. Of course, you'll need to duplicate their amps and other gear too.
 
Mailman1971":3u2lie5i said:
Yeah all those clips are favorite songs of mine as well.
I played some of the Accept in this clip I made when messing around with a new amp I had modded.
GO to about the 3:35 spot in the clip.
Sounds ok in the Clip....but super killer in the room. Very "grindy" as you mention for sure. :yes:
Click to expand...

That is a great tone, but still too smooth. Since it's hard to describe sound with words, I'll use a comparison with sandpaper: Where smooth 800 grit sandpaper would be the distortion of a nice, warm, fat Fender amp using the neck pickup, and 320 grit being a great Marshall metal tone like 80's Judas Priest, I'd describe yours as even more aggressive like 220 grit. However, the videos have a sharper EVEN cut like maybe 80 grit or even a rasp or saw-tooth blade. EVEN clipping is the key word, because tones like the Swedish death metal bands using Boss Heavy Metal pedals (Entombed, Carcass, etc.) have the buzz saw quality I like, but it's a more messy/hairy/sloppy kind of cut, close but not the same.
 
Disfigured":1jzlgqeo said:
I met White Zombie/Prince's guitar tech in the 90's, he told me there was a common trick used my metal players, it's a way you set a flanger not for effect but to get a "buzzsaw"-type midrange, I don't remember the details, but I've heard other guys talking about it too but for the life of me can't remember how it's done. I don't know if it's a specific brand of flanger pedal that you need or not. I'm sure there are some guys on this forum that may know what I'm talking about. Of course, you'll need to duplicate their amps and other gear too.
Click to expand...

^^^^^This -- It's a combination of a specific, very light flanging effect, and a good amp tightened up with a Tube Screamer or equivalent JRC 4558 chip-equipped pedal, plus some EQ push in the 125Hz, 250Hz, and 800Hz ranges (if memory serves). The characteristic "ROCKMAN" sound is a seriously pushed 500Hz. You can get this sound out of a ROCKMAN but you have to EQ the heck out of it in the frequencies noted above, especially the 125Hz and 250Hz. ROCKMAN has a lost of top end sizzle--you have to add back the low-mid grind and thump, but it CAN be done.

:rock:
 
You can get that type of mid honk if you take a BOSS BF-2 Flanger, set the control on the far left to MAX. All other controls on ZERO. Instant Ronni LeTekro honky midrange!

To be honest, the easiest way to nail that 80's sound... Take any Marshall-esque amp and slam the front end with a Furman PQ-3 set to boost 20db @ 800hz - 100hz. Try it and you'll see what i mean ;)
 
The amazing thing about that Dokken video is they had enough money to hire a helicopter pilot to fly around in the background, and a boat. Unless they happened to setup just in time for when they were conducting a search for a drowned swimmer or something.
 
Mudder":gpzwbi8t said:
There's a huge thread about Lynch's tone back in the day around here somewhere...

Here you go... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92065
Click to expand...


Yes, I posted on that thread also, but since the title line is 'Under Lock and Key' most readers wouldn't have seen my post. George Lynch is one of many who had the element I'm looking for, and that album ULAK really doesn't have it as pronounced as Tooth and Nail or Back for the Attack. The Flanger trick may really help, I wish I had one to try it.

I also suspect the saw blade sound comes from some kind of time based effect that doubles the guitar track just a few milliseconds apart (maybe 20 to 40 ms?).

Mic placement and its phase canceling may have done it too?

Some say poweramp tube distortion will do it also.

It may be a combination of all of these factors, but it seems like it would be hard to line up all of the wave peaks (saw blade spikes) so they are all so even, clean, and tight. I'd think a combination would just make a messy kind of distortion and that leads me to believe its mostly the result of one device?
 
I'd love to visually analyze the waveform of the guitar in the videos to look for clues, but I don't have a recording program unfortunately.

When I thought about what makes a real wood cutting chainsaw sound like it does, it's the exhaust blast of a single piston engine repeating at a very high speed. This gave me an idea about an effect on a Boss GT-3 I have called a Slicer. It's basically an effect that mimics the toggle switch flipping with one pickup volume on zero, or rapidly hitting a killswitch. What if that slicer was so quick, and the slice so short that it would mimic the piston hits of a real chainsaw? It might not be pretty in raw form, but maybe with some tweaking it might be really cool, who knows.
 
Mudder":2xkmctsw said:
You could do what Jackyl did...

Click to expand...


:lol: :LOL:

It does have a certain musical quality to it, more like a saxophone though.
 
When I think of a chainsaw tone it reminds me of the Mesa mark IV red stripe I had. :yes:
 
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