Help getting the specific 'grind' in these old clips?

[Greazygeo]

The Dokken (Tooth And Nail) and King Diamond were both ss amps. Dokken with his Randall and King using Marshall Valvestates.

Accept used emg pickups on that album. You can hear the change from Restless and Wild when they were using passive pickups and most likely a Dist + into old Marshalls. Accept's tone is much different than the KD/ Dokken. Like was posted KD / Dokken would benefit from the flanger trick. Accept's tones I don't hear that though.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah all those clips are favorite songs of mine as well.
I played some of the Accept in this clip I made when messing around with a new amp I had modded.
GO to about the 3:35 spot in the clip.
Sounds ok in the Clip....but super killer in the room. Very "grindy" as you mention for sure.

sounds really good man.....as usual, your chops are a nice compliment to the amp too!

 

[petejt]

Maybe this what I've been trying to do with a chorus pedal with a cranked up amp, all this time?

 

[petejt]

I've been trying to get a very specific element of this 'Rockman type of saw/grind/buzz/grit/clipping' whatever you call it to add to my sound. Can anyone tell me what I'm hearing in common of the rhythm guitars in these clips? They all have a specific chainsaw type of distortion/grit in common that is very unique and not smooth- very aggressive! Almost like a solid-state type of clipping or effect. Is it a Rockman, an effect like a stuck-chorus, or a pitch harmonizer +/- 12 cents, or maybe even 2 tracks just a few millisec delayed? Maybe it's something the studio added not even in the guitar tone? I know pushed plexi's are probably the base foundation of the sound, but what I'm looking for is that specific extra 'sizzle/frying' sound that's in these clips. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyePfnR3DmA&sns=em 0:00 to 0:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMZkF8JDuk 0:00 to 0:17 then bigger from 0:18 to 0:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d45HmdK0b5E 0:26 to 0:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZBExczoGc 0:05 through 0:25 (*Bonus! check out 3:20 to 4:15, it sounds exactly like old Yngwie like in Steeler!)

I can hear a slow sweeping effect which could be a chorus or a flanger- slowly sweeping up and down. But I think that's added in post-production?

But separate to that is that "trilling" effect, like a cat purring, or sizzle if you have the highs boosted as well. I guess it's the front end of a cranked Marshall getting pushed really hard? It COULD be a Chorus or a flanger where the Speed is set fairly fast, but the pre-delay (Manual knob on an MXR flanger) is set quite low so it doesn't get wide and warbly, and the Depth kept quite 'shallow' so again it does not get warbly.

If you play a pitch-modulated signal with TWO dry signals, it will help reduce any wobbliness but you'll still hear that trilling sound.
This fits in with the notes posted on this forum on how a Laney amp (lows cranked) was run alongside a Marshall (highs cranked), alongside another Laney that was fed by a Boss Chorus pedal.



If you crank up the Width control on a Neunaber Chroma pedal, it will get that "trilling" oscillating sound. If you turn the Mix right up you get a great fast Leslie effect. Keep the Mix knob fairly low and run it alongside a dry signal- hmmmmm interesting...............

 

[eljodon]

Yeah all those clips are favorite songs of mine as well.
I played some of the Accept in this clip I made when messing around with a new amp I had modded.
GO to about the 3:35 spot in the clip.
Sounds ok in the Clip....but super killer in the room. Very "grindy" as you mention for sure.

That amp sounds great. Really aggresive. Not trying to get away from the orginal topic.

Thanks man....Best $700 I ever spent!
Brand new amp....modded...Tranny upgrade...sounds killer for that kind of music.
We do Judas Priest....Accept....Maiden....all the bands from that era and the Grind the OP is looking for is there for sure.

I love Balls to the Walls!!!I would love to see your band live! But you're noyt in Ca

 

[eljodon]

I've been trying to get a very specific element of this 'Rockman type of saw/grind/buzz/grit/clipping' whatever you call it to add to my sound. Can anyone tell me what I'm hearing in common of the rhythm guitars in these clips? They all have a specific chainsaw type of distortion/grit in common that is very unique and not smooth- very aggressive! Almost like a solid-state type of clipping or effect. Is it a Rockman, an effect like a stuck-chorus, or a pitch harmonizer +/- 12 cents, or maybe even 2 tracks just a few millisec delayed? Maybe it's something the studio added not even in the guitar tone? I know pushed plexi's are probably the base foundation of the sound, but what I'm looking for is that specific extra 'sizzle/frying' sound that's in these clips. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyePfnR3DmA&sns=em 0:00 to 0:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMZkF8JDuk 0:00 to 0:17 then bigger from 0:18 to 0:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d45HmdK0b5E 0:26 to 0:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZBExczoGc 0:05 through 0:25 (*Bonus! check out 3:20 to 4:15, it sounds exactly like old Yngwie like in Steeler!)

I hear a doubling effects, probably a Eventide.+12 and -12 would be abit much, I think VH used +9 and -9. Go to gearslutz.com, Michael Wagener produces those albums and he describes what he used in great detail. Here is a picture of one of his room with a bunch of speaker cabinets with all kids of micshttp://www.michaelwagener.com/WWpictures/WoD2.JPG

 

[mentoneman]

accept balls to the wall
racer x heart of a lion
tnt kotnt
stryper live tones
whitesnake still of the night
lynch live on ulak tour
skid row

i think of light maple neck/alder or basswood guitars with hot ceramic pickups with treble bump

cameron, mesa mark III, herbert, or vht amps

furman, micropitch, flange, delay

gh30 or greenback in a 4x12

 

[Mudder]

accept balls to the wall
racer x heart of a lion
tnt kotnt
stryper live tones
whitesnake still of the night
lynch live on ulak tour
skid row

i think of light maple neck/alder or basswood guitars with hot ceramic pickups with treble bump

cameron, mesa mark III, herbert, or vht amps

furman, micropitch, flange, delay

gh30 or greenback in a 4x12

Isn't Whitesnake a Mesa Coliseum? And I think Skid Row was maybe Rivera?

 

[Lurchhammer]

I think Whitesnake Still of the Night was a Mark IIC+ and Skid Row was an ADA MP-1 on Slave to the Grind (best sounding of their albums in my opinion )

 

[Lurchhammer]

That first RacerX album had an awesome tone also, I think it was Lee Jackson Metalronix amp? I saw photos of him in the studio with a Plexi type amp and an attenuator for one of the albums, not sure which one (that same amp was sold on EBay). I thought Second Heat (Heart of a Lion) was an ADA MP-1, but I'm not 100% sure?

 

[LP Freak]

I think Whitesnake Still of the Night was a Mark IIC+ and Skid Row was an ADA MP-1 on Slave to the Grind (best sounding of their albums in my opinion )

Wow, STTG had one of my all time favorite tones. It always sounded like a modded Plexi to me. Whatever it was, it was killer.

Monkey Business

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I don't hear any steeler era Yngwie in that last clip...Laroque was a formidable guitar player of his own and at that time he had the speed but wasn't as precise as Yngwie. He got his chops up to snuff in no time though, by the early 90's he had some sweet as tight runs. One of my fave players.

As for the modded windsor above through Randall Lynch cab, that cab should have Super V speakers and those bad boys crunch like crazy. Sometimes there is too much grind and highs for me in the ones i have. I go from love to neutral depending on the day.

 

[Lurchhammer]

I don't hear any steeler era Yngwie in that last clip...Laroque was a formidable guitar player of his own and at that time he had the speed but wasn't as precise as Yngwie. He got his chops up to snuff in no time though, by the early 90's he had some sweet as tight runs. One of my fave players.

I was referring to the lead guitar tone, not the playing. It has that smooth neck-pickup, recorded on old tape sound, EQ'd very dark with a lot of delay echo and chorus giving it a 'distant in a tunnel' kind of tone. Steeler had that sound, almost like the rest of the band all recorded in the same room together, and then the guitar was recorded on a tape-recorder in a room a million miles away and added later. It just sounded artificial and didn't fit together cohesively.

 

[Stone Heavy Sound]

It sounds to me like these songs employ a playing style that could be what you're describing. Imagine playing a bar chord but without the bass note, basically the 5th and the oct. This was a common style in the time as it leaves out the bass note which gives the chord more grind. For example, in the Accept track, you say it got bigger, that's because the bass guitar comes in and hammers on the low E, but the guitar only chugs his low E between the chords, so the bass fills in that low E that we weren't hearing in the guitar

 

[LP Freak]

It sounds to me like these songs employ a playing style that could be what you're describing. Imagine playing a bar chord but without the bass note, basically the 5th and the oct. This was a common style in the time as it leaves out the bass note which gives the chord more grind. For example, in the Accept track, you say it got bigger, that's because the bass guitar comes in and hammers on the low E, but the guitar only chugs his low E between the chords, so the bass fills in that low E that we weren't hearing in the guitar

It's bigger because the guitar is doubled.

 

[headlessdeadguy]

EMG 81 into a VH-140C.

 

[Giga]

@ TS: would "purring" describe what you mean ?

Giga


Edit: you could ask Michael RT: his clips in this thread also "purr" ; viewtopic.php?f=3&t=129528

 

[JerEvil]

I think Whitesnake Still of the Night was a Mark IIC+ and Skid Row was an ADA MP-1 on Slave to the Grind (best sounding of their albums in my opinion )

Wow, STTG had one of my all time favorite tones. It always sounded like a modded Plexi to me. Whatever it was, it was killer.

Monkey Business

What a kick ass album all around

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I was referring to the lead guitar tone, not the playing. It has that smooth neck-pickup, recorded on old tape sound, EQ'd very dark with a lot of delay echo and chorus giving it a 'distant in a tunnel' kind of tone. Steeler had that sound, almost like the rest of the band all recorded in the same room together, and then the guitar was recorded on a tape-recorder in a room a million miles away and added later. It just sounded artificial and didn't fit together cohesively.

That's because Yngwie refused to track within 20 feet of any mortals who didn't recognize his status as a guitar deity... the singer also looked like a Ramone if i remember the cover to that Steeler album. He probably cut some tracks and bailed. I remember the leads did sound like they sat over top and were punched in and out though. In fact, they were the best part of that album. You had to fast forward the songs to get to Yngwie's leads.

 

[Mailman1971]

I was referring to the lead guitar tone, not the playing. It has that smooth neck-pickup, recorded on old tape sound, EQ'd very dark with a lot of delay echo and chorus giving it a 'distant in a tunnel' kind of tone. Steeler had that sound, almost like the rest of the band all recorded in the same room together, and then the guitar was recorded on a tape-recorder in a room a million miles away and added later. It just sounded artificial and didn't fit together cohesively.

That's because Yngwie refused to track within 20 feet of any mortals who didn't recognize his status as a guitar deity... the singer also looked like a Ramone if i remember the cover to that Steeler album. He probably cut some tracks and bailed. I remember the leads did sound like they sat over top and were punched in and out though. In fact, they were the best part of that album. You had to fast forward the songs to get to Yngwie's leads.

i saw Yngwie live back in 1985. His band opened for AC/DC....
wish I could of "fast forwarded" him....
Sorry....never was a YJM fan.....but...YMMV.