Help with slaving speaker out like EVH.

N

Nigel

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My Rivera M60 has an “up to line level” direct out from the speaker loop that is padded down with resistors. It can be super bright and overdrive the front end of a slave amp or Boss pedals put in front.

What would you recommend to make it hi Z and perhaps turn it down a bit?
 
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“Direct Out jacks
Each power amp is also equipped with a low-impedance Direct Out jack suitable for PA mixers, tape recorders, and other power amps. This signal is padded down from the speaker signal and is capable of up to line-level output. If the amp is on standby or the Speaker 1 jack is not used, the Direct Out jack is inoperative.
When running the signal from the Direct Out jack to a mixer, it is best to roll off the frequency response above 8kHz.”
 
My guess is the "reactive load" in the RockCrusher does not have the correct impedance curve (?)

Perhaps the inductor/capacitor network are incorrectly sized ?

KLoDblI.jpg
 
To follow Rivera's recommendation of rolling of 8kHZ and above maybe try an EQ pedal( Boss GE-7 or MXR Ten band) after the direct line out to cut 8khz and above before your power amp input and see if that works.

I have not used the direct line out on my Rockcrusher but I think it's one of the best attenuator's on the market. I use the Suhr Iso Line out that taps one of my speaker out jacks on the amp( I installed an extra speaker jack on my amp) and it has a transformer isolated design that has worked flawlessly for me for years driving any slave amp I have used, ie: Peavey 50/50 power amp, Marshall Superlead low input jack(bright channel ala EVH), BK Butler Mosvalve power amp and my Matrix GT1000FX.
 
+1 on the Suhr ISO box, its not perfect but it works well enough to dial in and do what you'd expect it to. You can set the level wherever you need it to be also. My attenuators are all old designs that shave too much top, so I have no reference point on the newer ones to speak of.
 
PLX said:
My guess is the "reactive load" in the RockCrusher does not have the correct impedance curve (?)

Perhaps the inductor/capacitor network are incorrectly sized ?

KLoDblI.jpg
Click to expand...
I don’t have a Rock Crusher
 
JTyson said:
+1 on the Suhr ISO box, its not perfect but it works well enough to dial in and do what you'd expect it to. You can set the level wherever you need it to be also. My attenuators are all old designs that shave too much top, so I have no reference point on the newer ones to speak of.
Click to expand...
Seems to be a recurring complaint about the impedance curve of the load boxes in production now.

:unsure:
 
Nigel said:
I don’t have a Rock Crusher
Click to expand...
Yeah I re-read your and I see it was your using the Rivera M60 amp line out. PLX's pic of the Rockcrusher skewed my focus.:LOL: Either way try the EQ pedal and see if that works for you using the M60 lineout. Other than that I can only recommend the Suhr Iso line out for slaving/reamping purposes.

Doesn't the M60 have some sort of SLAVE out jack? I remember my M100 had some kind of Slavemaster setup with it's own volume control it was quite elaborate and I never really learned to use it well.
 
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harddriver said:
Yeah I re-read your and I see it was your using the Rivera M60 amp line out. PLX's pic of the Rockcrusher skewed my focus.:LOL: Either way try the EQ pedal and see if that works for you using the M60 lineout. Other than that I can only recommend the Suhr Iso line out for slaving/reamping purposes.

Doesn't the M60 have some sort of SLAVE out jack? I remember my M100 had some kind of Slavemaster setup with it's own volume control it was quite elaborate and I never really learned to use it well.
Click to expand...
Ahh yeah.

Nigel edited in "M60".

:ROFLMAO:
 
PLX said:
Seems to be a recurring complaint about the impedance curve of the load boxes in production now.

:unsure:
Click to expand...
The ISO box?
Its not a load box, you still have to load the circuit.
Maybe I'm misreading the post?
 
JTyson said:
The ISO box?
Its not a load box, you still have to load the circuit.
Maybe I'm misreading the post?
Click to expand...
Was referencing recent posts here questioning the accuracy (or lack thereof) of some of the more popular reactive loads on the market.
 
Nigel said:
My Rivera M60 has an “up to line level” direct out from the speaker loop that is padded down with resistors. It can be super bright and overdrive the front end of a slave amp or Boss pedals put in front.

What would you recommend to make it hi Z and perhaps turn it down a bit?
Click to expand...

I’d calculate an RC constant to have it attenuated beyond 10KHz with a capacitor to ground at the Jack after the resistors and then shove that direct out signal into a JFET buffer of some type. Most boss pedals are buffered FWIW. Hell you could even possibly just run the signal into a boss EQ and do what you need as is.
 
Nigel said:
“Direct Out jacks
Each power amp is also equipped with a low-impedance Direct Out jack suitable for PA mixers, tape recorders, and other power amps. This signal is padded down from the speaker signal and is capable of up to line-level output. If the amp is on standby or the Speaker 1 jack is not used, the Direct Out jack is inoperative.
When running the signal from the Direct Out jack to a mixer, it is best to roll off the frequency response above 8kHz.”
Click to expand...
The 8kHz roll off is probably some sort of quasi Cab Simulation. You need either the guitar speakers in the equation (mic'd up) or some sort of cabinet simulation. If it's just too hot then try putting something like a pedal or a rack unit with In/Out Levels in between and see if you can get a low level signal that way. The Suhr ISO Line Out box mentioned will also work but you shouldn't even need it with a Slave Out. You can also just change the resistors to reduce the level.

Also, the Suhr Line Out box has a Speaker Thru jack so don't even need two speaker jacks on your amp to use it.
 
SpiderWars said:
The 8kHz roll off is probably some sort of quasi Cab Simulation. You need either the guitar speakers in the equation (mic'd up) or some sort of cabinet simulation. If it's just too hot then try putting something like a pedal or a rack unit with In/Out Levels in between and see if you can get a low level signal that way. The Suhr ISO Line Out box mentioned will also work but you shouldn't even need it with a Slave Out. You can also just change the resistors to reduce the level.

Also, the Suhr Line Out box has a Speaker Thru jack so don't even need two speaker jacks on your amp to use it.
Click to expand...
Boss pedals will take up to line level just fine. Just don’t expect them to send line level. I do agree a cab emulator is what should go next.
 
harddriver said:
Yeah I re-read your and I see it was your using the Rivera M60 amp line out. PLX's pic of the Rockcrusher skewed my focus.:LOL: Either way try the EQ pedal and see if that works for you using the M60 lineout. Other than that I can only recommend the Suhr Iso line out for slaving/reamping purposes.

Doesn't the M60 have some sort of SLAVE out jack? I remember my M100 had some kind of Slavemaster setup with it's own volume control it was quite elaborate and I never really learned to use it well.
Click to expand...
Slavemaster emulates a 5 watt class A power amp with its own loop. So it’s basically emulating the preamp being fed into a Champ power amp and then sent to that amp’s AB power. Sounds killer!
 
JTyson said:
The ISO box?
Its not a load box, you still have to load the circuit.
Maybe I'm misreading the post?
Click to expand...
The amp is plugged into a speaker, so I’m just using the direct out to feed a slave amp for stereo FX sounds.
 
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