Herbert and Axe FX???

[VESmedic]

Hey guys, just some questions for those that use both.

The 4 cable method is obviously an option when using the herbert and axe fx together: Thus being able to get effects before or after the amp, as well as use the herberts own preamp, or a modeled one, or a combination of both. However, the herbert also has as a "switchable loop" in which, you can place a preamp in it (such as the axe fx). If I was to place the axe fx in the herbies switchable loop, what would I NOT be able to do that I COULD do with the 4cm? I have been thinking about it, and it seems the only thing I wouldn't be able to do, is possibly effects through the front end? (boost etc). Also, it seems this method would be much quieter than the 4cm, as I hear this can get quite noisey. Thanks!

Chris

 

[thiswaythatway]

Sounds to me that you wouldn't be able to use the switchable loop with the 4cm and just using the switchable loop with the Axe would mean effects after the preamp.

I tried the Axe with a few different amps with the 4cm and it made me want to take a hammer to the Axe-Fx. Noise, hum, volumes all over the place, it was a frustrating experience.

 

[VESmedic]

Sounds to me that you wouldn't be able to use the switchable loop with the 4cm and just using the switchable loop with the Axe would mean effects after the preamp.

I tried the Axe with a few different amps with the 4cm and it made me want to take a hammer to the Axe-Fx. Noise, hum, volumes all over the place, it was a frustrating experience.

Thanks Danyeo...Yea, that noise etc seems extremely frustrating. The axe fx would be my dream setup with my amps, as I feel it is close enough to mimic other high gain amps, and all the effects, plus I have my 2 favorite "real" amps...Would be tonal bliss. RJM has a video of the 4 cable method with the mark 5 on youtube, there is no extra noise though?? I even asked ron from RJM and he said he had no noise issues with it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi0I8SwWTmI

 

[thiswaythatway]

I think Fractal made some changes to the Axe-2 to address the noise issue when using the 4cm.

 

[mentoneman]

my conundrum with 4CM is the idea that you go in to the axe analog, convert to digital (A/D #1), come out from digital back to analog (D/A #1), feed the amp input which will now be magnifying any noise, and come out of the amp's fx loop send back into the axe (A/D #2), come out of axe for the second time (D/A #2) and back to the return of the amp

and most people complain about the adverse sound quality of just an amp's loop!
now add 2 trips through A/D - D/A conversion to that argument, and it's inherent latency and tonal degradation.

unless you have the highest level of converters you are in for disappointment.
so unless we're talking apogee level A/D ins and D/A outs on each connection point i don't see how it can be done transparently.
and even apogee duet has decent amounts of latency:

Computer Connectivity
Roundtrip Latency performance
Duet =Firewire 400 32 buffer @ 96kHz = 4.6 ms/64 buffer @ 44.1kHz = 7.23 ms
Duet 2 =USB 2.0 32 buffer @ 96kHz = 3.6 ms/64 buffer @ 44.1kHz = 5.8 ms

our echolab standard def sdi digital video switcher at work incurs one scan line of latency; 525 lines of video per frame, 30 frames per second, equals .63 ms of latency, given the signal is already in the digital domain

i will say that aside from the noise/hum deal, the actual TONE wasn't affected as drastically as one would imagine. It was very noticeable to me when i tried 4CM with the M13. But even with axefx, you start to notice that waxy sluggish vibe associated with digitizing on the attack of the notes, and start trying to eq the digital artifacts out to compensate, which never ends well.

surely defends the argument for axefx as stand alone unit, or effects processor only in a w/d/w, where only one instance of A/D-D/A occurs.

 

[Spaceboy]

The Axe FX II has been optimized for 4CM, but I haven't seen much talk about it. There's nothing but bad stories all over the internet about 4CM with Standard/Ultra.

 

[VESmedic]

I figured this was the case....unfortunately, I can't justify spending 2600 bucks on one right now... I would like one though :/ I wish there was more talk about it, because for me, and others who refuse to give in to it as ur sole means of tone, it would be a DREAM setup, atleast for me. If I get tired of the VHT/Diezel sound (not that i would ) I could flip over and hear a vox ac30, or a matchless, etc. Sure, they aren't dead on, but hte feel and tone would be completely different than what I have now, and that in itself is the beauty of it...What did they do to make it more 4cm friendly?