How do you guys record drum hats and ride?

[Kapo_Polenton]

I'm stumped... going with a close mic'd kit: kick, toms, snare (might do snare bottom as well) , stereo overheads. A common problem is that the hats when turned up, also bring up the sound of the overheads in the mix... I tend not to like crashes to be too overpowering (as do most people which is why you barely hear them in recording), anybody double track their left and right overheads to bring in the hats and ride so that they can lower the volume of the crashes? Would this work as long as i edit out all the crash hits in the hat and ride overheads? or am I better off also mic'ing the ride and hats? Trying to avoid burying myself behind mic stands..

Just trying to get some insight into how you smaller guys recording in your home studios do this..... without EZ drummer or Superior that is

 

[Anonymous]

To me, nothing sounds better than sampled drums
Unless your drummer includes lots of little details in his performance

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I go with xy overheads & a few room mics- hi hat & ride cuts right though
I hate hearing rock mixes with that close mic hi hat banging out in front

 

[locoed]

I go with xy overheads & a few room mics- hi hat & ride cuts right though
I hate hearing rock mixes with that close mic hi hat banging out in front

This.

 

[spguitar]

At the moment, Steven Slate 4 does it for me.

When i did record live drums i liked a 57 or beta 57 out to the side of the hat and my condensers used for my crashes would catch the ride.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Cranky, you got in clips or samples of this config recorded? Wouldn't the mics over the cymbals generate louder hits from the crashes based on the fact that they are closer to the overhead mics? How do your set your XY overheads? behind the kit or in front of bassdrum?

The reason i don't feel like screwing with samples is because i drum myself and I find a lot of samples to sound too stiff on the snare during rolls.. I also don't always use straight up beats that come in libraries, where i place my bass drum for example is where i want it, not "close enough" as in a sample. I've edited drums on a midi file before, total freakin nightmare and takes ages.

I'm going to mess with EZ drummer 2 tomorrow but i am doubtful it will do what I want.

 

[dstroud]

I always close mic the kit, use 2 overheads and mic the hi hat. I usually never use the hi hat closed mic though, I only bring it up if I'm not getting enough in the overheads. I've also rarely had to do this, but a couple times I had to ride the faders on the overheads to get them in the mix like I wanted. But usually it's a set it and forget it. I like ez drummer for demos, but I usually have parts in my head - I've yet to find a drum program that doesn't take forever to program, I can always mic up the kit and get a drum take way faster than programming.

 

[Anonymous]

The reason i don't feel like screwing with samples is because i drum myself and I find a lot of samples to sound too stiff on the snare during rolls.. I also don't always use straight up beats that come in libraries, where i place my bass drum for example is where i want it, not "close enough" as in a sample. I've edited drums on a midi file before, total freakin nightmare and takes ages.

I meant sampled from records, by yourself
I'm not sure how often this has been done in rock, though

 

[Hollis]

A small diaphragm condenser mic($150 Octava) 6 to 8" from the hats(move it around a bit and play with the angle) is what I always used. Adds a bit of sizzle and clarity.

 

[PatF]

These links show a good 3 mic technique that will give you a good base tone. Do a 4-mic variation and move the overheads to where they feature the hats and ride how you like. Use a string to measure the overheads to the center of the snare. The overheads should capture the whole kit. The close and room mikes blended in for flavor.

http://therecordingrevolution.com/2011/ ... ng-method/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdiPLpXASgo

Best thing might be not to hit the crashes so hard.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

^agreed

I have to dig around for some clips, as I haven't had a chance to record/play drums in recent years
But I have been in a numerous studios with people using different approaches. The mic everything up approach usually yileds poor results, likely from phasing issues. Plus, I don't really want to hear the attack of the hi hat/ride close up, unless you're playing some real delicate nuances in a jazzier project.
The most talented guy I was around used an xy overhead with a kick mic and it slayed. Placed properly it sounds huge. I never feel liek the hats or ride is lost; the xy is typically pointed right in their direction. Add a few room mics for ambience, close mics on snare and toms for attack, but the bulk of the kit sound is coming from the xy and kick. Slam the toms/snare/kick hard, try to be less aggressive on cymbals is a good approach, but hard to do.

 

[renegade5150]

I also tend to use an XY but like George Massenburg meaning if my kick and snare are the two pieces that are up the middle (panning wise) then I use where the beater hits the kick and the center of the snare to use as my axis and typically right above the middle of the kick drum. Also, please make sure the close mics are in base with your OH.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The most challenging part is the fact that if you are playing rock and going hard on the snare, try to come off that without giving the cymbal a solid hit... or if you are doing fast doubles and using the cymbals for punctuation. It is hard to vary between two intensities of hitting. When I lay off the cymbals, I end up laying off the entire kit. I am going to look into XY, right now i was setting them up as a stereo pair of overheads one over the hat and 1st crash, the second over the second crash, ride, splash..both equal distance from center snare.

 

[nwright]

the last recording I did with real drums I used all close mics on the cymbals. I miked a couple crashes in pairs, everything else was close miked individually and then used a room mic...no real overheads. I loved it. I could set the levels accurately and then send those to their own buss and apply what I want to create my "overhead" mix. this was pretty fast death metal though, so ymmv. I don't think it would be something I'd use for a big roomy rock sound.

oh yeah, and I miked the ride and some crashes from underneath to help isolate them more. really worked great.

 

[Moshaholic]

I go with xy overheads & a few room mics- hi hat & ride cuts right though
I hate hearing rock mixes with that close mic hi hat banging out in front

He said "banging"...

 

[guitarpete]

I go with xy overheads & a few room mics- hi hat & ride cuts right though
I hate hearing rock mixes with that close mic hi hat banging out in front

Yes, never close mike a HH, I use a pair of SM-81's as over heads and use a slight amount of compression on them on mix down to smooth /even out the overall cymbal mix.

 

[maddnotez]

Your drummer might hate you. BUT

Tell him to move his hats 12" to the left

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Well test 1 with the XY config is alright but the crashes are still too overpowering.. will compression bring them down? How high off the snare would you guys say your mics are?