how to play with another guitar in the band?

[shred-o-holic]

People do forget that the guitar is a mid frequency instrument that thrives on mids. They tend to focus on bass and gain like everyone pretty much is saying. I would add to use that thing called the presence knob if you have one. I generally keep mine low at home but with a band I turn it up more. Made a difference in my last 2 guitar band.

 

[gibson08]

What kind of cab? Speakers? I agree with max mids, gain down a bit (even though we don't know any current settings) bass will probably be lower than you are used to and presence a little higher than you are used to, and a little more curious what the other guitar player is using,, Deluxe Reverb?? Tweed?

 

[155]

2 guitars suck unless you are both on point and your tones are complimenting one another not drowning out...its a fine line very hard to find since everyone hears differently...

 

[glassjaw7]

Tell him to tune his guitar. Then do it again. Finally, turn his amp way down.

 

[IceMan]

Interesting post by Iceman but largely crap. I doubt the modded boutique amp by the OP is only good for replicating album tones in your bedroom while a stock Marshall is your only salvation in a band.
Boost mids and -since you're the lead player- you should be louder than that other guitarist. He needs to turn down. Watch what happens when you play when he's absent & I bet the mix for your amp is glorious!

Funny how people who disagree with somebody does so based on what they THINK they said instead of comprehending what they read. I NEVER said that boutique amps are "only good for replicating album tones in your bedroom". I said that is how they are being marketed to people. If you know what you are doing and have experience in playing with bands and getting a good tone, you will know how to get the "boutique" amps to work for you. But most people are being sold on the sound of the amp from the tone in a standalone setting. Have you ever considered why pretty much EVERY backline used by pro players consists of stock MARSHALLS?? It's because they are usually the best starting point for getting a good guitar tone that will mix well with a band. Also consider why is it that all these boutique amps are modded takes on the "hot-rod Marshall" sound? These are just facts. Don't shoot the messenger.

Hey - I love the sound of some of these amps. I've been lusting after a Friedman BE since they came out. The Helios is another one I'm considering. But I KNOW that they are going to be different animals than my current JVM.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Agreed, comprehension and inferencing skills are funny!

The OP- who has a modded Marshall- wants tips on how to cut through and blend in a live band mix. To be specific, this is not a comprehension disagreement as you suggest, but a disagreement based on my inference of your message. Am I off base on my inference? You basically told the OP to get a stock Marshall (which I say is crap advice

Another problem I see are with how modern amps are voiced... But if you try to use said [boutique] amp in a band setting, you may struggle.... There is a reason Marshall and Fender amps have been used on so many records. They sound GREAT with a band.

You preach the stock Marshall line, but then say you also want a boutique amp yourself

I've been lusting after a Friedman BE since they came out.

Why even lust for one while positing that it is a struggle in a band setting? What other setting is there (hence the bedroom inference). Head on down to Bob's Warehouse; I think you'll get along well:

 

[IceMan]

Agreed, comprehension and inferencing skills are funny!

The OP- who has a modded Marshall- wants tips on how to cut through and blend in a live band mix. To be specific, this is not a comprehension disagreement as you suggest, but a disagreement based on my inference of your message. Am I off base on my inference? You basically told the OP to get a stock Marshall (which I say is crap advice

Another problem I see are with how modern amps are voiced... But if you try to use said [boutique] amp in a band setting, you may struggle.... There is a reason Marshall and Fender amps have been used on so many records. They sound GREAT with a band.

You preach the stock Marshall line, but then say you also want a boutique amp yourself

I've been lusting after a Friedman BE since they came out.

Why even lust for one while positing that it is a struggle in a band setting? What other setting is there (hence the bedroom inference). Head on down to Bob's Warehouse; I think you'll get along well:

Oh, for Jesus shit.......No, I did not tell the OP to just buy a stock Marshall. I use it as an example as to why many guitarists struggle with their sound. I offer advice based on experience. I am not "preaching the Marshall line"! And yes, I do want a boutique amp at some point. Why do you assume I would use it in a band/live setting? Am I not allowed to just jam in my house?? Or are my opinions only valid if I only gig?

What's your deal? I offer some advice based on experience and you are - from what I see - the ONLY PERSON ON THE TREAD to disagree. Do you have some kind of "anti-Marshall" bias?? Did the guy down your street who could play circle's around you have a Marshall and make you look bad or something??? For Christ's sake, lighten up and take it with a grain of salt. If you don't like my advice, fine. But don't act like a petulant little fucking troll and spew your "great, another Marshall guy" attitude.

Now go back to your mother's basement and bang away on your Brown Eye.................douche.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Yes I suppose I should take your cue & lighten up lol

fwiw
You were wrong on ever assumption you have about me (& probably yourself)

I like Marshalls
I don't have a neighbor who plays at a high level, though that would be awesome
I don't live in Moms basement, but in these depleted financial times I empathathize that some may have to
I don't have a Brown Eye amp
Bedroom player or Arena player doesn't bother me, but somehow you misread that? And then also called me a basement player as an insult...classic transference
Everybody here agrees on your less gain more mids comment- including me

The envy crap you spew is pointed out in above posts & skews your sage advice. Your reception to online criticism is also alarming.

You know what tough guy? Put a clip up of your playing. If you have half the energy of your post you will drown me in epic guitar slinging bad assery.

 

[threadkiller]

Yes I suppose I should take your cue & lighten up lol

fwiw
You were wrong on ever assumption you have about me (& probably yourself)

I like Marshalls
I don't have a neighbor who plays at a high level, though that would be awesome
I don't live in Moms basement, but in these depleted financial times I empathathize that some may have to
I don't have a Brown Eye amp
Bedroom player or Arena player doesn't bother me, but somehow you misread that? And then also called me a basement player as an insult...classic transference
Everybody here agrees on your less gain more mids comment- including me

The envy crap you spew is pointed out in above posts & skews your sage advice. Your reception to online criticism is also alarming.

You know what tough guy? Put a clip up of your playing. If you have half the energy of your post you will drown me in epic guitar slinging bad assery.

You guys are in the same band aren't you? See op, ^this is how you play with another guitar in the band

 

[shredhead7]

Personally, I love playing in two guitar bands. All of my favorites growing up were that model, and live you just can't replicate that power with one guy. With that said, you do run into volume wars and the suggestions that everyone has mentioned are good answers. Because I didn't read every reply, if your practice space allows it, try moving the amp/cab away from you, so you hear it from their perspective. In most basements, it's a bit cramped, but try to move to a different spot in the room, leaving your amp put and see if that helps. If you have a straight cab and you're standing in front of it, the sound is blasting you at your knees, but everyone else ten feet away is getting it in the face. It will be a lot brighter and louder to them. A slant cab would correct this for you and give you a more realistic version of your sound.

But, as others have said, more mids, less bass, less distortion will help.

 

[Travis]

I have played in nothing but two guitar bands and it really comes down to the two players listening to each other. If the other guy isn't listening to what you are doing sonically; it won't work. You'll constantly be at odds about tones when the problem is usually in the playing. I played with one guy who was a singer song writer and just a power chord chunker and most of what I did was different sounds or lines that a keyboard would play and it would usually line up alright. But he also had a tendency to play 3rds in certain chords and I always had to be aware of that when I would compose parts.

Another guy was a much more proficient guitar player and he would share solo duties with me, which was really fun because I got to play rhythm guitar. But when we were both playing rhythm, we would both be listening to what each other guy was doing and trying to not play in the same register. Like, I wasn't noodling all over him when he was singing and he treated my solos the same way. But like everyone else said: less gain, more mids. Don't be afraid to use a Tubescreamer to poke through the mix for single note things. Oh, and turn it down. Sometimes that helps.

 

[Lord Toneking]

I deal with the exact same problem. Everyone always telling me to TURN UP! But yet the band says I'm too loud...yet I can't hear myself...but I can hear the other guitar player across the stage with his fender 1x12 combo just fine (and I have a Splawn QR)

I'm bumping mids for this weekends gig and turning down my gain and seeing what happens

Also, I CANNOT play with my amp off the floor. It sounds thin and no warmth or bottom end. Even when I had an EVH 50 with the matching 'tilt back' 2x12 I never tilted it back because it sounded like shit. My other guitarist puts his amp on a stand...and honestly his tone is awful imo

 

[Badronald]

Trio.

This is the way I like it.

 

[IceMan]

Yes I suppose I should take your cue & lighten up lol

fwiw
You were wrong on ever assumption you have about me (& probably yourself)

I like Marshalls
I don't have a neighbor who plays at a high level, though that would be awesome
I don't live in Moms basement, but in these depleted financial times I empathathize that some may have to
I don't have a Brown Eye amp
Bedroom player or Arena player doesn't bother me, but somehow you misread that? And then also called me a basement player as an insult...classic transference
Everybody here agrees on your less gain more mids comment- including me

The envy crap you spew is pointed out in above posts & skews your sage advice. Your reception to online criticism is also alarming.

You know what tough guy? Put a clip up of your playing. If you have half the energy of your post you will drown me in epic guitar slinging bad assery.

.."Tough guy"???....omg....maybe we should have a "Crossroads" -style online guitar dual to prove who's dick is bigger? I apologize for invading your "turf" as the superior rock God, by offering a "crap" opinion. I guess my "envy" for a real amp got the best of me and I allowed myself to try and convince others who are stuck with stock Marshalls to try to make the best of their unfortunate situations.

Thanks for reminding me why I need to stop coming to gear forums to share and get info.....too many egos......

You have a good day, sir.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Apology declined

 

[petejt]

Another problem I see are with how modern amps are voiced. It seems like many of the "boutique" amps out there today are voiced to replicate the guitar sounds from the sound we hear on the actual recordings instead of how the amp actually sounded when it was being recorded. This is a problem with many of the modelers too. I see tons of clips where someone is trying to replicate player 'X''s sound on record 'Y' and they pretty much nail that exact sound. But here's the problem - the reference point is the guitar AFTER it's been squished with compression, eq'd, pre-amped, re-amped, mixed with other amps, multiple speakers, and on and on. Very rarely does the sound you hear on a record reflect the sound of the amp when recorded. Now, if you are a builder who is creating all these sweet, $4,000 custom amps to sound like so-and-so, it's awesome marketing to show somebody nailing the tone of a well respected player. But if you try to use said amp in a band setting, you may struggle. I'm not saying these amps are bad in any way. Just that you have to know what you are dealing with going in. There is a reason Marshall and Fender amps have been used on so many records. They sound GREAT with a band. I have heard MANY guys say, "Those Marshalls are so damn 'ice-picky'". Well, yeah - sometimes by themselves they can be harsh. But get them in a good room with a good band and magic happens.

That's a very good point.

 

[anomaly]

There are a lot of good things being said here, but there are other ways to go about this... First off, why don't you ask your other guitarist to adjust his tone to work with yours?? He's probably got a really harsh abrasive mid-rangey tone which is why it's cutting through everything and burying your tone.

Another thing, don't lower your gain to the point where it sounds wimpy and classic rock because a bunch of old farts on a guitar board tell you to, do what works. Same with mids. Adjust your tone one notch at a time, and use common sense. You have a cab with V30's?? get them, they work really well live and cut through anything. Good luck. Work with the other guitarist, or kick him out, lol.

 

[skoora]

All the good advice has already been given but I love being in a two guitar band...when you have common sensibilties and abilities.

 

[jabps]

You never said what cab you are using...I'm assuming since it's a head it's a 4x12?

As other have said, drop your gain a smidge and crank your mids...you'll notice the difference, might take a bit but you'll get used to it.

As for the cab...if it is a 4x12, try a slant if you don't already have one. Slant is perfect for fixing "hearing yourself" on stage. I recorded with straights but most live venues, I always used a slant if using just one 4x12.

 

[Rango]

OP- Cudos for working on working on making the band sound better.

I've played with guys that it was all about THEM...WATCH ME...WATCH ME.

My Lead player and I have put the ego crap aside and work to make US sound better. On the volume issue, do you guys have a sound man? Pretty hard to tell how you sound in the mix from the stage. We use somebody on the board, whenever we can. Stage volume to hear yourself, then into the board so the sound guy can set overall volume and mix.

Some interesting thoughts and concepts in this thread... "Big Dick" contest aside....