I need to address the Cameron reverse engeneering thing

[JerryP]

There is one patent / Western Electric. Leo /Jim etc used it . There is no patent for an guitar amplifier. I got a cameron mod on an amp in 2002. I reversed engineered in 2003. It aint all that. You have to learn how to drive a car. Any car

There are many patents on guitar amplifiers and effects.
Jerry

 

[Anonymous]

bullshit/ show me one

 

[Anonymous]

Do a search. Everything is patented pending

 

[scottosan]

Do a search. Everything is patented pending

Name of Invention Patent Number
Original Lead/Rhythm Dual Mode Amplifier 4,211,893
Simul-Class™ Power Amp 4,532,476
Simul-Class™ Power Amp 4,593,251
Lead/Rhythm Dual Mode Amplifier (Simplified) 4,701,957
Dyna-Watt™ Power Amp 4,713,624
Tweed & Spongy Power - Mains Voltage Reduction 5,091,700
Selectable Dual Rectifier® 5,168,438
TriAxis™ Preamp – Programmable Midi Control of 8 Tube Modes 5,208,548
Progressive Linkage™ - Variable Power Tube Power Section 5,559,469
Parallel FX Loop with Mix Control 6,522,752
Mute Circuit 6,621,907
Solo Control – Pre-settable, Footswitchable Volume Boost 6,724,897
Duo-Class™ Power - Switchable Push-Pull / Single-Ended Power Amp 7,173,488

 

[Shark Diver]

Funny thing is, just off the top of my head I only know one guy using a Marshall, about 3 using Mesa and no one using a Fender. And I'm sure there are more than 150 Herberts or VH4s, XTCs or Shiva's, SLOs, etc...

More on topic though, stealing his ideas and designs is immoral, if not criminal.

From my point of view I do not think anyone is thinking about stealing his work. Not like it would be hard to do ? I guess the hardest part would be finding a amp to copy ?

You named off a few that did get over that number. There are a lot of other amps. How many of even the ones you have there have sold thousands ? There are a lot that sell more than 150 but it slows down very fast for most amps. There are over 50,000 MESA Mark amps out there.

I know you have seen more than 4 guys playing. Every place I go I see Marshall, Fender and Mesa on stage most of the time. People that play and do not know a lot about gear know these names. This is most of the people that play. People that do not how to play know these names.

LOL Yeah, but just 5 or 6.

I meant I'm only friends with about 4 guys that use them. Most guys I know are using other gear: Bad Cats, Diezels, Bogners, etc. I think if you are seeing a lot of Marshalls and Mesas at least one factor is that is what they grew up with, or their heroes use them. And another is just plain cost. Much easier and cheaper to score a Used Mesa triple Rec than a Diezel VH4.

I hear ya though. Whatever people want use is cool with me, but whether it's cost effective or not, I'll always think reverse engineering something with the intent to make $ is wrong. Just like down loading music. It's just a question of everyone's personal values/morals. Mine don't apply to everyone else.

If Mark would just put the damn things out 90% of us would rather have the original even at a higher cost.

 

[NewWorldMan]

So let me get this straight...a guy who hot rods Marshall amps and whose most popular Marshall mods are even named after the guy HE ORIGINALLY COPIED ("Jose") is bitching because someone is copying him?

Shit, I'd set up shop myself, change 1 or 2 components, call it my "Cameronz Mod," and then take less than 4 years to return someones amp and make a fortune.

 

[Stramm8]

Who fucking cares? Who cares about cloning an obscure amp that is from a company that is barely in existance and not fufilling it's orders?

I mean, people clone Marshalls too, right?

Didn't he supposedly discover Jose's "secret notes" and use that to develop his version of the mod?? Do you think he actually has a patent on it?? Give me a fucking break. Fuck him, this guy should sell schematics or start modding amps himself and make some cash. Despite what Obama is trying ram up are asses, this is still a free country and for right now capitalism is still breathing...but just barely

 

[JerryP]

bullshit/ show me one

Bullshit yourself, get a fucking clue before you post. There are soooo many clueless posts in these Cameron threads.

Guytron 6,111,961 Amplifier for a guitar or other musical instrument
I'm not going to spend my night searching, there are plenty. Mesa has many as posted above, Tom Scholz, Guy Hedrick, Peavey, and the list goes on.
Jerry

 

[JerryP]

Here's what you guys don't get, it takes more than a schematic.
EVERYONE has the schematic for a Plexi, how many actually build one that sounds like the original? Why do the vintage amps still go for so much?
Marshall copied a Bassman, do they sound the same?
There are two shops doing Jose mods, one is highly desirable, one not so much.
How many amps copied Marshall yet don't sound like them?
How many amps are similar to the SLO yet sound nothing like one?
Soldano uses the same circuit in many of his amps yet they sound different.
Jerry

 

[Stramm8]

Here's what you guys don't get, it takes more than a schematic.
EVERYONE has the schematic for a Plexi, how many actually build one that sounds like the original? Why do the vintage amps still go for so much?
Marshall copied a Bassman, do they sound the same?
There are two shops doing Jose mods, one is highly desirable, one not so much.
How many amps copied Marshall yet don't sound like them?
How many amps are similar to the SLO yet sound nothing like one?
Soldano uses the same circuit in many of his amps yet they sound different.
Jerry

So if you or Dave Friedman or Mike Fortin had the schematics, a list of components, values, wire lengths etc., you guys couldn't get it in the ball park?? I know nothing about modding amps but I know there are some talented technicians out there, with the right information could produce something as good or better than what Cameron is putting out. After listening to Dave Friedman's stuff and most recently Mike Fortin's mods, I'm convinced that MC should be shaking in his boots and will soon become overshadowed by entities that are capable of meeting their customer's needs.

 

[Mr. Willy]

Is Mark actually producing any amps right now?

 

[Anonymous]

Here's what you guys don't get, it takes more than a schematic.
EVERYONE has the schematic for a Plexi, how many actually build one that sounds like the original? Why do the vintage amps still go for so much?
Marshall copied a Bassman, do they sound the same?
There are two shops doing Jose mods, one is highly desirable, one not so much.
How many amps copied Marshall yet don't sound like them?
How many amps are similar to the SLO yet sound nothing like one?
Soldano uses the same circuit in many of his amps yet they sound different.
Jerry

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

As far as the Plexi thing goes, what is a Plexi anyway? There were several slight variations over the years and as far as why the vintage amps go for so much, it is more hype than anything else - all you have to do is listen to some of the 12 series replicas guys have built using Metro kits to hear you can get that tone without spending a fortune on a '68 Marshall Super Lead. Also by now, most of the old ones sound different because component values have significantly drifted.

Steve

 

[stephen sawall]

Here's what you guys don't get, it takes more than a schematic.
Jerry

That is what I was thinking.

 

[stephen sawall]

Funny thing is, just off the top of my head I only know one guy using a Marshall, about 3 using Mesa and no one using a Fender. And I'm sure there are more than 150 Herberts or VH4s, XTCs or Shiva's, SLOs, etc...

More on topic though, stealing his ideas and designs is immoral, if not criminal.

From my point of view I do not think anyone is thinking about stealing his work. Not like it would be hard to do ? I guess the hardest part would be finding a amp to copy ?

You named off a few that did get over that number. There are a lot of other amps. How many of even the ones you have there have sold thousands ? There are a lot that sell more than 150 but it slows down very fast for most amps. There are over 50,000 MESA Mark amps out there.

I know you have seen more than 4 guys playing. Every place I go I see Marshall, Fender and Mesa on stage most of the time. People that play and do not know a lot about gear know these names. This is most of the people that play. People that do not how to play know these names.

LOL Yeah, but just 5 or 6.

I meant I'm only friends with about 4 guys that use them. Most guys I know are using other gear: Bad Cats, Diezels, Bogners, etc. I think if you are seeing a lot of Marshalls and Mesas at least one factor is that is what they grew up with, or their heroes use them. And another is just plain cost. Much easier and cheaper to score a Used Mesa triple Rec than a Diezel VH4.

I hear ya though. Whatever people want use is cool with me, but whether it's cost effective or not, I'll always think reverse engineering something with the intent to make $ is wrong. Just like down loading music. It's just a question of everyone's personal values/morals. Mine don't apply to everyone else.

If Mark would just put the damn things out 90% of us would rather have the original even at a higher cost.

How about they do not even know what it is ?

I must agree about leaving alone that that is not yours ......I am going with I love your avatar. Can I have it or do I need to steal it ?

 

[Shark Diver]

Here ya go Stephen:

http://www.bartcop.com/marilyn-monroe001.jpg

 

[glpg80]

Funny thing is, just off the top of my head I only know one guy using a Marshall, about 3 using Mesa and no one using a Fender. And I'm sure there are more than 150 Herberts or VH4s, XTCs or Shiva's, SLOs, etc...

More on topic though, stealing his ideas and designs is immoral, if not criminal.

From my point of view I do not think anyone is thinking about stealing his work. Not like it would be hard to do ? I guess the hardest part would be finding a amp to copy ?

You named off a few that did get over that number. There are a lot of other amps. How many of even the ones you have there have sold thousands ? There are a lot that sell more than 150 but it slows down very fast for most amps. There are over 50,000 MESA Mark amps out there.

I know you have seen more than 4 guys playing. Every place I go I see Marshall, Fender and Mesa on stage most of the time. People that play and do not know a lot about gear know these names. This is most of the people that play. People that do not how to play know these names.

LOL Yeah, but just 5 or 6.

I meant I'm only friends with about 4 guys that use them. Most guys I know are using other gear: Bad Cats, Diezels, Bogners, etc. I think if you are seeing a lot of Marshalls and Mesas at least one factor is that is what they grew up with, or their heroes use them. And another is just plain cost. Much easier and cheaper to score a Used Mesa triple Rec than a Diezel VH4.

I hear ya though. Whatever people want use is cool with me, but whether it's cost effective or not, I'll always think reverse engineering something with the intent to make $ is wrong. Just like down loading music. It's just a question of everyone's personal values/morals. Mine don't apply to everyone else.

If Mark would just put the damn things out 90% of us would rather have the original even at a higher cost.

How about they do not even know what it is ?

I must agree about leaving alone that that is not yours ......I am going with I love your avatar. Can I have it or do I need to steal it ?

since i dont have any money tied up in MC im not going to respond to your comment. for some reason i dont find this very comical anymore considering the money involved thats un-accounted for or missing/stolen.

 

[gybe!]

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

 

[FUZZboat]

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

a picture of that would speak volumes !!

(and no I'm not asking for a "detailed" pic showing the values of the components)

just an overview shot (& maybe one of the cell phone charger ) to give a good example to others as to what to expect if/when you get your modded amp back

 

[FUZZboat]

Here's what you guys don't get, it takes more than a schematic.
Jerry

That is what I was thinking.

wow if thats true then why is it such a "unforgivable sin" around this forum to post a gut shot of their jose/aldrich camerons

in fact I remember gut pics of camerons being removed from this forum outta respect to mark

but now, from what Jerry P is saying, I can have all the gut shots of every jose cameron in exsistence and still never build an amp that sounds even close to a jose cameron

proof is in the pudding as they say

so why not post those pics & put an end to this cameron conspiracy once and for all

(btw, its a rhetorical question - I know why $$$$$)

 

[Gainfreak]

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

For the most part, Im staying out of this thread because Mark is a friend but the work Ive seen from Mark has been outstanding. Im not sure if your was touched by someone else of if Mark had to rush the amp to get it out but the Camerons Ive had/seen were built extremely well with none iof the BS you described. Just saying.

~R~