I need to address the Cameron reverse engeneering thing

[scottosan]

bullshit/ show me one

 

[Anonymous]

Randall Smith would patent his mama etc. The things that are patented on these amps are dohickie what ca ma call it bullshit things. I can see patents on certain preamp designs etc/Guytron. But the basic design of a tube amp is still based off of Western Electric schematic regardless.Everybody built there amp from this knowledge. Same thing with a car engine etc.

 

[Anonymous]

But you can thank Jim Marshall for 85 percent of that

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

For the most part, Im staying out of this thread because Mark is a friend but the work Ive seen from Mark has been outstanding. Im not sure if your was touched by someone else of if Mark had to rush the amp to get it out but the Camerons Ive had/seen were built extremely well with none iof the BS you described. Just saying.

~R~

I have to agree. Both of My CAmerons look to be well built. so much so, that I could probably drop the amp and it would still work.

 

[gybe!]

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

For the most part, Im staying out of this thread because Mark is a friend but the work Ive seen from Mark has been outstanding. Im not sure if your was touched by someone else of if Mark had to rush the amp to get it out but the Camerons Ive had/seen were built extremely well with none iof the BS you described. Just saying.

~R~

I have to agree. Both of My CAmerons look to be well built. so much so, that I could probably drop the amp and it would still work.

I wish mine would have been well built, it really was one of my favorite sounding amps. But, it would also feedback uncontrollably when you approached stage volumes thanks to some of the choice wiring. It really looked like a rat's nest in there though, and nobody else had been in there before hand. It was a two channel, and much of it was true point to point, but there was less than desirable components and choices in wire all around. The cell phone charger really was the cherry on top of that pie.
I do have pics, but they are on a hard drive on a dead laptop. At some point I will grab them and if there are any that aren`t too detailed (I spent ~2 hours documenting everything in the amp at Mark's request (in response to the noise issue he was going to help me fix), to never hear from him again) I will post them up. Probably won`t though, as it would require too much work on my behalf

 

[jmgman69]

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

For the most part, Im staying out of this thread because Mark is a friend but the work Ive seen from Mark has been outstanding. Im not sure if your was touched by someone else of if Mark had to rush the amp to get it out but the Camerons Ive had/seen were built extremely well with none iof the BS you described. Just saying.

~R~

I have to agree. Both of My CAmerons look to be well built. so much so, that I could probably drop the amp and it would still work.

I wish mine would have been well built, it really was one of my favorite sounding amps. But, it would also feedback uncontrollably when you approached stage volumes thanks to some of the choice wiring. It really looked like a rat's nest in there though, and nobody else had been in there before hand. It was a two channel, and much of it was true point to point, but there was less than desirable components and choices in wire all around. The cell phone charger really was the cherry on top of that pie.
I do have pics, but they are on a hard drive on a dead laptop. At some point I will grab them and if there are any that aren`t too detailed (I spent ~2 hours documenting everything in the amp at Mark's request (in response to the noise issue he was going to help me fix), to never hear from him again) I will post them up. Probably won`t though, as it would require too much work on my behalf

It was the Verizon mod/Sprint mod

 

[daver101]

I'd like to add something. I told a couple people through PM's about my friend doing this amp. One of these people told Mark about this. This is how he found out, not by my post because it was too soon after I posted it and I got the call. So....I'd like to know who called him and told him about it.

Anybody?

Anybody?

OK, I know how it went down now..

Do tell! Do tell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

Nah, I'm letting it rest Steve. I don't want to open any more cans-o-worms.

Can-o-worms are FUN!!!!!

 

[scottosan]

Randall Smith would patent his mama etc. The things that are patented on these amps are dohickie what ca ma call it bullshit things. I can see patents on certain preamp designs etc/Guytron. But the basic design of a tube amp is still based off of Western Electric schematic regardless.Everybody built there amp from this knowledge. Same thing with a car engine etc.

Translated = I was wrong!

 

[glpg80]

Randall Smith would patent his mama etc. The things that are patented on these amps are dohickie what ca ma call it bullshit things. I can see patents on certain preamp designs etc/Guytron. But the basic design of a tube amp is still based off of Western Electric schematic regardless.Everybody built there amp from this knowledge. Same thing with a car engine etc.

Translated = I was talking out of my ass

good catch. you got a keeper.

 

[Digital Jams]

Funny thing is, just off the top of my head I only know one guy using a Marshall, about 3 using Mesa and no one using a Fender. And I'm sure there are more than 150 Herberts or VH4s, XTCs or Shiva's, SLOs, etc...

More on topic though, stealing his ideas and designs is immoral, if not criminal.

From my point of view I do not think anyone is thinking about stealing his work. Not like it would be hard to do ? I guess the hardest part would be finding a amp to copy ?

You named off a few that did get over that number. There are a lot of other amps. How many of even the ones you have there have sold thousands ? There are a lot that sell more than 150 but it slows down very fast for most amps. There are over 50,000 MESA Mark amps out there.

I know you have seen more than 4 guys playing. Every place I go I see Marshall, Fender and Mesa on stage most of the time. People that play and do not know a lot about gear know these names. This is most of the people that play. People that do not how to play know these names.

LOL Yeah, but just 5 or 6.

I meant I'm only friends with about 4 guys that use them. Most guys I know are using other gear: Bad Cats, Diezels, Bogners, etc. I think if you are seeing a lot of Marshalls and Mesas at least one factor is that is what they grew up with, or their heroes use them. And another is just plain cost. Much easier and cheaper to score a Used Mesa triple Rec than a Diezel VH4.

I hear ya though. Whatever people want use is cool with me, but whether it's cost effective or not, I'll always think reverse engineering something with the intent to make $ is wrong. Just like down loading music. It's just a question of everyone's personal values/morals. Mine don't apply to everyone else.

If Mark would just put the damn things out 90% of us would rather have the original even at a higher cost.

The best tones to come out of this forum IMO the past year have been Marshalls or modded Marshalls and some Wizards, yeah the guys are shit hot players but imo they make Marshalls sing. These guys can also afford any amp they want but they stick to what they like and if they need a tweek or two then it is done. THat high gain shootout the amps that were slicing through the mix were all Marshalls, I did enjoy the VH4 and XTC 20th as well.

IMO the Plexi is the perfect platform to start with, from there pedals and mods can take you where you want to go. It has nothing to do with name tags or price tags when you are in the shed or on stage, it is what you make of it.

 

[stephen sawall]

Funny thing is, just off the top of my head I only know one guy using a Marshall, about 3 using Mesa and no one using a Fender. And I'm sure there are more than 150 Herberts or VH4s, XTCs or Shiva's, SLOs, etc...

More on topic though, stealing his ideas and designs is immoral, if not criminal.

From my point of view I do not think anyone is thinking about stealing his work. Not like it would be hard to do ? I guess the hardest part would be finding a amp to copy ?

You named off a few that did get over that number. There are a lot of other amps. How many of even the ones you have there have sold thousands ? There are a lot that sell more than 150 but it slows down very fast for most amps. There are over 50,000 MESA Mark amps out there.

I know you have seen more than 4 guys playing. Every place I go I see Marshall, Fender and Mesa on stage most of the time. People that play and do not know a lot about gear know these names. This is most of the people that play. People that do not how to play know these names.

LOL Yeah, but just 5 or 6.

I meant I'm only friends with about 4 guys that use them. Most guys I know are using other gear: Bad Cats, Diezels, Bogners, etc. I think if you are seeing a lot of Marshalls and Mesas at least one factor is that is what they grew up with, or their heroes use them. And another is just plain cost. Much easier and cheaper to score a Used Mesa triple Rec than a Diezel VH4.

I hear ya though. Whatever people want use is cool with me, but whether it's cost effective or not, I'll always think reverse engineering something with the intent to make $ is wrong. Just like down loading music. It's just a question of everyone's personal values/morals. Mine don't apply to everyone else.

If Mark would just put the damn things out 90% of us would rather have the original even at a higher cost.

How about they do not even know what it is ?

I must agree about leaving alone that that is not yours ......I am going with I love your avatar. Can I have it or do I need to steal it ?

since i dont have any money tied up in MC im not going to respond to your comment. for some reason i dont find this very comical anymore considering the money involved thats un-accounted for or missing/stolen.

I also have nothing involved with this. I had to much to drink last night. I do not drink much anymore and am not making excuses.

I guess what it comes down to is I make light of things I do not feel conferable with.

I also think the whole thing is kind of sad and hope the best for Mark and everyone else. I would hope that some how he would be able to make good on all of this. Regardless of his personal problems or what ever. It would take time .... but probably would be worth it.

Much easier said then done.

I have known about the other amp for some time and it has nothing to do with any one on the forum. He is not interested in making money or anything else from what I know. He has been taking apart stuff and putting his own stuff together as long as I have known him. That is about 20 years. He does this for himself. Not others. I guess we all want something different / better. He just one of the people that do this.

I did not even know JB knew about it till a few days ago and never talked with him about it ever.

 

[Juggernaut]

The best tones to come out of this forum IMO the past year have been Marshalls or modded Marshalls and some Wizards, yeah the guys are shit hot players but imo they make Marshalls sing. These guys can also afford any amp they want but they stick to what they like and if they need a tweek or two then it is done. THat high gain shootout the amps that were slicing through the mix were all Marshalls, I did enjoy the VH4 and XTC 20th as well.

IMO the Plexi is the perfect platform to start with, from there pedals and mods can take you where you want to go. It has nothing to do with name tags or price tags when you are in the shed or on stage, it is what you make of it.

EXTREMELY WELL PUT!

 

[ttosh]

The best tones to come out of this forum IMO the past year have been Marshalls or modded Marshalls and some Wizards, yeah the guys are shit hot players but imo they make Marshalls sing. These guys can also afford any amp they want but they stick to what they like and if they need a tweek or two then it is done. THat high gain shootout the amps that were slicing through the mix were all Marshalls, I did enjoy the VH4 and XTC 20th as well.

IMO the Plexi is the perfect platform to start with, from there pedals and mods can take you where you want to go. It has nothing to do with name tags or price tags when you are in the shed or on stage, it is what you make of it.

EXTREMELY WELL PUT!

+1000

 

[Gainfreak]

I guess I see what you're getting at Jerry, although I'm certainly no amp genius myself. Besides a schematic obviously you need a layout or detailed pictures of the amps guts to get something really close and you could experiment with different component manufacturers, but a schematic is sure gonna help a whole lot don't you think? A schematic, a layout or detailed photos, some knowledge of how different components interact in gain stages and the tone stack and a good set of ears to tweak to taste should allow someone to get pretty close to what any given amp sounds like, no?

....

Well, in the case of Mark's mods, I think anybody armed with a schematic should be close. Mine (which was ungooped) was about the sloppiest work I have ever seen. Maybe that was part of the secret. Oh, and terribly shitty components like a cell phone charger to power channel switching and unshieleded wires running from gain stages across most other components. After inspecting mine it became 100% clear while it takes him 4 years to do a mod, I mean, when you have to recycle probably 50 different 70s era amps just to come up with the electronics for one mod (plus waiting for a new cell phone charger before using yours as the power supply), its going to take some time

I will admit though, the amp sounded great, and then developed some awful noise issues

But, to the average Joe, they would not have been able to tell the difference in quality between Mark's handywork or Fab's by looking at a picture....

For the most part, Im staying out of this thread because Mark is a friend but the work Ive seen from Mark has been outstanding. Im not sure if your was touched by someone else of if Mark had to rush the amp to get it out but the Camerons Ive had/seen were built extremely well with none iof the BS you described. Just saying.

~R~

I have to agree. Both of My CAmerons look to be well built. so much so, that I could probably drop the amp and it would still work.

I wish mine would have been well built, it really was one of my favorite sounding amps. But, it would also feedback uncontrollably when you approached stage volumes thanks to some of the choice wiring. It really looked like a rat's nest in there though, and nobody else had been in there before hand. It was a two channel, and much of it was true point to point, but there was less than desirable components and choices in wire all around. The cell phone charger really was the cherry on top of that pie.
I do have pics, but they are on a hard drive on a dead laptop. At some point I will grab them and if there are any that aren`t too detailed (I spent ~2 hours documenting everything in the amp at Mark's request (in response to the noise issue he was going to help me fix), to never hear from him again) I will post them up. Probably won`t though, as it would require too much work on my behalf

Lol

Well Im glad that I didn't have the same experiance and even though I know this isn't right of me.... I can't help laughing at the cell phone charger
all the best!
~R~

 

[Hollywood]

I hope what ever brand cell charger that it was it was not from the company that advertise the network. Because you may not have room for all those people to be standing outside at your place.

 

[rsm]

Maybe the amp with the cell phone charger and shoddy work was a "clone" or not a real Cameron? Based on what other people who've owned them or still own them have said?

This situation is just bad all around. All the people out of cash and/or amps, and whatever demons / issues Mark is dealing with. More than a few musicians have not beaten their demons, many died young too, a real loss to music IMO. He clearly has a talent, and many people who are willing to pay for his work. I do hope this all works out.

 

[stephen sawall]

Here ya go Stephen:

http://www.bartcop.com/marilyn-monroe001.jpg

I forgot to thank you ..... I like it very much.