Viper
Banned
Member
These must be the same guys who said you can dry off a cell phone by putting it in a microwave.
GuitarGuyLP
Active member
And if you rub your feet on carpet you can get a couple thousand volts that you won't notice until you touch something conductive. Having voltage present with no current does not wear thing out. And there are no free electrons in the tubes until the they are boiled off of the filament. Standby switches keep voltage off of the plates so that you can heat up the tube first. The debate is if that is desireable in a guitar amp, or not
If your amp was off for more than a few minutes the caps will start to discharge. They are not perfect, and some amps have a resistor to discharge the caps anyway.
If your amp was off for more than a few minutes the caps will start to discharge. They are not perfect, and some amps have a resistor to discharge the caps anyway.
Chester Nimitz
Banned
New member
Sorry but you are wrong.
A tube boiling electrons creating "amperage" is not the only way to get shocked.
If you doubt me grab pin # 1 of any preamp tube of any Thermonic Valve Amplifier and get back to us but make a video we need some good comedy.
And if you're seriously trying to suggest that taking a 450 volt shock is A-okay there is something wrong with you [regardless of amperage].
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Lots of amps have a resistor to ground after the SB switch and any voltage stored in the caps will slowly drain away through that resistance. Some amps have this resistance before the SB switch so you need to leave the SB switch ON in order for the caps to drain.
We all take a couple-thousand-volt shocks all the time as GuitarGuyLP mentioned. But there's so little stored energy that it's just an annoying little shock (i.e. the tiny bit of current instantly depletes the voltage). Think of how damaging a 12v car battery can be and it's only 12v. Those batteries are built for high current. Put two 9v batteries in series and you'd have 18v but it wouldn't hurt you like a 12v car battery.
EDIT: we are talking POWER here so V=IR doesn't really apply.
We all take a couple-thousand-volt shocks all the time as GuitarGuyLP mentioned. But there's so little stored energy that it's just an annoying little shock (i.e. the tiny bit of current instantly depletes the voltage). Think of how damaging a 12v car battery can be and it's only 12v. Those batteries are built for high current. Put two 9v batteries in series and you'd have 18v but it wouldn't hurt you like a 12v car battery.
EDIT: we are talking POWER here so V=IR doesn't really apply.
GuitarGuyLP
Active member
Chester Nimitz":2lm0durw said:
Sorry but you are wrong.
A tube boiling electrons creating "amperage" is not the only way to get shocked.
If you doubt me grab pin # 1 of any preamp tube of any Thermonic Valve Amplifier and get back to us but make a video we need some good comedy.
And if you're seriously trying to suggest that taking a 450 volt shock is A-okay there is something wrong with you [regardless of amperage].
I am not talking about getting shocked I am talking about you can have voltage with no current flow. If you apply voltage to the plates without the heater boiling electrons off you will get no electron flow. It is like an outlet without anything plugged in. The electrons are boiled off by the heater, the voltage difference between the anode, and cathode causes those electrons to go towards the anode. The grid controls the flow. No free electrons no current flow, no current flow no power. If you put the power on without using a standby switch you will put full voltage on the plates, and power on the heater at the same time. As the heater heats up there are more, and more free electrons are available more current will flow and the volume will gradually come up. In high power tubes 1000 VDC and up there is enough voltage on the plates to strip electrons from the cathode causing damage. That is what a standby switch, and in an x-ray system the prep switch prevents. The debate is if this happens at voltages under 500 VDC in guitar amps. I think the best answer would be in the old tube spec sheets, and design perameters from the original tube manufactures.
But what do I know about electronics, I'm only am electronics engineer.
VC4Ever
New member
Wired Guitarist is stealthtastic...so yea it's click and bait. Dude is all about "stealth marketing". Look it up.
maddnotez
Banned
Well-known member
VC4Ever":2gjsx9u1 said:
Hmm well, hopefully that works on many because it backfired with me and also a bunch of people in the groups I talked to about it, in fact the only people defending them were members of their own FB group.
I left the group and would never buy from WG based from this, I always though their guitars were overpriced flavor of the week anyway.
Plus the people who run the page are idiots.
Good luck and stop posting misleading titles.
Chester Nimitz
Banned
New member
Boiling Electrons is what you want in a tube amp.
Obviously a "tube theory" misunderstanding i was having with GuitarGuyLP..
FWIW i have an Electronics Degree as well.
I always warm-up my amps. in 40 years of valve amplifiers ive never had a power tube meltdown because i follow simple rules & principles.
I have however heard some really bad tube related stories the last 10 years which usually involve user error.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Did you guys read the Wampler article the OP article linked to? Might want to see what Trace at Voodoo, Mike Fortin and other builders have to say or linked to...
http://www.wamplerpedals.com/news/blog/talking-about-gear/should-i-put-my-amp-on-standby
Steve
http://www.wamplerpedals.com/news/blog/talking-about-gear/should-i-put-my-amp-on-standby
Steve
mudf00t
New member
I left the Wired Guitarist group because I couldn't take that shit any more.
Stealthtastic
Active member
I did not write the article. We have a few people we pay to put content out.
Steve Henning chimed in and said what I was going to say, so no point really discussing this any further.
Steve Henning chimed in and said what I was going to say, so no point really discussing this any further.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Cool article. I liked the Jukebox part, never really thought about that. He summed it up tongue firmly in cheek: "Cathode poisoning was such a problem that they would have to put a new set of valves in the Juke Box every thirty-forty years!”sah5150":dp5ia8o9 said:
maddnotez
Banned
Well-known member
Stealthtastic":2fq5pk2q said:
Beg to differ.
Here is what was quoted by Mike Fortin: "Fender essentially misinterpreted the requirements, and everyone else copied Fender. Leo tended not to put anything into the circuit that he felt was unnecessary - but he came from a repair background where a standby switch is a service convenience"
And
"Bypass the standby switch internally so that it does nothing.”
It mentions ripping them from an article but I couldn't find the article and am in a hurry so I'm not going to bother with it.
However, nowhere does Mike Fortin say it is bad to warm up your tubes. As the title to your article suggested.
In fact I recall on that same wampler page we are discussing two other people saying to warm up the tubes. Mike Fortin also uses standby and in the Bones manual suggests to turn the amp on. Dick around for a minute and then turn on the standby. Suggesting to letting the tubes warm up.
When I pointed that out however the FB guy who runs the Wired group freaked out was basically just devensive and and asshole. No discussion, just well we posted it so it's true type of shit lol.
So tell me again, were can I find factual data that proves warming up my tubes is bad for them?
Chester Nimitz
Banned
New member
I'll tell you another tube amp discipline i learned thru trial & error ...
***** Always and i mean [always] hook a load [cab] to a head before turning it on the head.
More than once schleping gear to gigs i have turned on a head with no load by mistake.
***** Always and i mean [always] hook a load [cab] to a head before turning it on the head.
More than once schleping gear to gigs i have turned on a head with no load by mistake.
Stealthtastic
Active member
It's not really clear what your problem is. The article clearly says the standby switch isn't necessary. If you're really upset just email the editorial team at editorial@wiredguitarist.com and someone will help you.
BTW, if anyone feels it's clickbaity then I suggest checking out what ultimate Guitar, Geargods, Premier Guitar etc... publish.
BTW, if anyone feels it's clickbaity then I suggest checking out what ultimate Guitar, Geargods, Premier Guitar etc... publish.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Standby is a great tool for amp builders/repair guys. No one said warming up your tubes BEFORE PLAYING isn't a good idea as the amp will sound it's best with warm tubes (especially older ones), the issue was do you need a Standby to do that and you don't. Simply turning down the volume would be fine. Your confusing letting the tubes warm up before you play with letting the tubes warm up with or without B+ voltage applied.maddnotez":2mcdqyl6 said:
What about what Trace said? He clearly said he puts a Standby in so that he doesn't have to take a million calls from guitar players asking why there is no Standby...
I understand you are complaining about the title of the article, but the gist of it is about Standbys and whether or not they are necessary. You aren't gonna destroy your tubes by applying B+ immediately, so technically warming them up is not necessary.
Steve
A
Anonymous
Guest
Turning one of my amps on without a load is not going to be an issue. Now, if you turn it on and play it without a load, you're probably going to have an issue, depending on how long you do that for.Chester Nimitz":b6d7za4q said:
Steve
A
Anonymous
Guest
SpiderWars":13pcpamf said:
Steve
GuitarGuyLP
Active member
Steve, sounds like you are trying to make your amps fool proof. Reminds me of this pic. I have heard that if you have a tendency to forget to plug in a cab you can wire up a power resistor with a switched output jack.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well, it isn't that I'm trying to make them foolproof, I was simply suggesting something I know about my amps. I'd never suggest that anyone turn on one of my amps without a load connected and, in fact, in my manuals, it clearly states this and indicates that damage could occur and that the warranty could be invalidated... There are lots of warnings on what NOT to do with one of my amps in the manuals, so I don't consider them, or even try to make them foolproof.GuitarGuyLP":1mn6i936 said:
Steve
