Jake E. Lee playing on TMS

[shredhead7]

As everyone has stated, I'm really surprised by which guys tank and which ones don't. I think that the guys that have really sounded the best, were the ones that still play live solo spots-Steve Stevens, Frank Hannon, Paul Gilbert, Michael Schenker, John 5. I'm not really sure if Warren does one or if the other guys do, but I know that the guys that I just listed still tour multiple times a year and are always doing solo spots.

I think a lot of it has to do with stage fright. I know personally, if my band is backing me, I'm fine, but if I play a solo spot, I get really self conscious, even if I can nail it 99/100 times at home.

 

[jiveturkey]

Guess I am out of touch. Can someone explain what TMS is and if there is a link to a video please post it. Jake E. Lee is a great guitar player, I would like to see what all the fuss is about.

TMS= That Metal Show with Eddie Trunk and those two other guys that, despite being comedians, are not funny in the least. I haven't watched any clips so I can't help you there. As a show, it's something I should like but the format and hosting style put me off.

 

[bigdaddyd]

I can never see the performances outside of their very akward and lame interviews because I am in Canada.. two questions, what is the format for their live performance? Do they jam between commercials? why don't they just all go direct with an axe fx or kemper? I find it hard to believe that a monster like kotzen would struggle. Are they not allowed to jam away on their own stuff with a house band or something? Besides that, whoever is producing that show needs to shake things up. The hosts are so akward and nerdy at times and there just seems to be a lot of dead space.

You'd be really surprised to see how most of these pro players choke the way they do. Warren DiMartini was so nervous that he could hardly speak let alone play.

I didn't see the Kotzen episode, but I have met Kotzen and watched him at soundcheck. The guy basically plays bare bones and doesn't need his effects although he has some minimal pedals. He is a perfectionist though and will get frustrated with everything if it isn't perfect. I don't care how bad he sounded in a 20 seconds set or even a 20 min set on TMS. If you think he can't play, you are a fool. The man is talented beyond words and so are most of these guys. For many of you to come on here and bash them because they sounded bad on a show that probably didn't suit them and then say that you could out play them....it is just ludicrous. Even Paul Gilbert kept stopping at the Iridium during his set because he had a problem with the levels and he couldn't play...and that was with HIS rig.

 

[LP Freak]

Well if I had to pick the player who I felt did the best job on that show it would be a tie btween John5, Gilbert, and Sheehan. If I could only pick one I think John5 would take the cake.

 

[RG955TT]

Sorry, excuse me, a show that didn't suite them? Huh? Your a pro guitar player (it's your job not your hobby), you have a 20 second spot X 3 or 4 to rip some licks and you cant pull it off? On national TV? In front of peers and other artists? Sorry, not seeing the problem doing this if your a pro player. Watching the faces of the other guests is telling as well, some look pained by what they are hearing. I don't play for a living but if I did and was going to be on the show I'd be sure to work something out in advance if I had to to have some certainty of what to play if improvising wasn't my strength (or don't take the gig at all). Why if you're that great a player would you even take a chance on opening yourself up for sucking? Can't improvise some cool licks for 20 seconds and your considered an iconic player? Really?

I watch the show and hear what I hear. Yeh ok tell me how great they are...but my ears don't lie and some of these guys were very unimpressive and some downright awful....some were pretty good and a few (very few) pretty great. Why are the drummers by far so much better overall? Make all the excuses you want for any of these guys but if that were me I'd be very upset with myself if that were my performance....and yes key word, it is a performance. Don't even get me started on the guitar tones either...if that makes me ludicrous so be it. Been playing for 35 years, my ears know sucking and garbage when they hear it. Sorry if some are offended because their idols fell flat. It is what it is...the tape never lies....

 

[Badronald]

Sorry, excuse me, a show that didn't suite them? Huh? Your a pro guitar player (it's your job not your hobby), you have a 20 second spot X 3 or 4 to rip some licks and you cant pull it off? On national TV? In front of peers and other artists? Sorry, not seeing the problem doing this if your a pro player. Watching the faces of the other guests is telling as well, some look pained by what they are hearing. I don't play for a living but if I did and was going to be on the show I'd be sure to work something out in advance if I had to to have some certainty of what to play if improvising wasn't my strength (or don't take the gig at all). Why if you're that great a player would you even take a chance on opening yourself up for sucking? Can't improvise some cool licks for 20 seconds and your considered an iconic player? Really?

I watch the show and hear what I hear. Yeh ok tell me how great they are...but my ears don't lie and some of these guys were very unimpressive and some downright awful....some were pretty good and a few (very few) pretty great. Why are the drummers by far so much better overall? Make all the excuses you want for any of these guys but if that were me I'd be very upset with myself if that were my performance....and yes key word, it is a performance. Don't even get me started on the guitar tones either...if that makes me ludicrous so be it. Been playing for 35 years, my ears know sucking and garbage when they hear it. Sorry if some are offended because their idols fell flat. It is what it is...the tape never lies....

Agreed.
Damn, spend an hour at home coming up with some cool stuff before you go to the set. It's really not that tough. They're all great players. There's no excuse. Actually the only excuse is you didn't prepare. It's on you.

 

[BYTOR]

Many of these rock/metal players from bands totally feel out of their element if they are not playing their structured tunes that they never have to improvise on.

Many things are revealed when someone is not playing songs they are known for. They usually never have to even stray from licks & riffs from songs they have played for years in situations they are comfortable in.....

 

[rupe]

Don't even get me started on the guitar tones either...if that makes me ludicrous so be it. Been playing for 35 years, my ears know sucking and garbage when they hear it.

Congrats...you're ludicrous!

I agreed with everything you had to say until the above quote. As a player with 35 years of experience, I'm rather amazed that you fail to understand that the tone we're hearing on our TV or computer speakers may not represent what was being heard in the room. How was it miked up? What mics were used? What was done in post production? Seems pretty pointless to place "tone blame" on a player when there are far too many unknown variables. Somebody on this forum (Jerry?) was there and said the tone sounded great in the room.

The playing on the other hand was total shit...can't blame that on any extenuation circumstances.

 

[slaveunit]

For the first time I thought....Wow I sound better with my 5150 III.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I don't get the apologists here...doesn't matter if the pickup fell in, the amp was too quiet, the amp wasn't mic'ed up, or how many Grammies are on the resume. We watch, we see crap, & it confounds & angers us. Yes, many if us could outplay the performances noted. Am i better than Kotzen? No way, but i could outperform that drek with a blindfold. Yes, it is an unnerving situation that is quite different, but that's the gig. Own it.

Prepare something, make sure your gear is right, be proactive & get gear that will translate to my tv. It's not rocket science here, but it seems the only mic on the amp are the room mics. If you can't get a 57 up close, then grab a Kemper or fractal or eleven rack and send that to the board.
A whole group of people are falling short here, but in the end Joe Guitar hero takes the fall.

 

[Anonymous]

I can never see the performances outside of their very akward and lame interviews because I am in Canada.. two questions, what is the format for their live performance? Do they jam between commercials? why don't they just all go direct with an axe fx or kemper? I find it hard to believe that a monster like kotzen would struggle. Are they not allowed to jam away on their own stuff with a house band or something? Besides that, whoever is producing that show needs to shake things up. The hosts are so akward and nerdy at times and there just seems to be a lot of dead space.

You'd be really surprised to see how most of these pro players choke the way they do. Warren DiMartini was so nervous that he could hardly speak let alone play.

I didn't see the Kotzen episode, but I have met Kotzen and watched him at soundcheck. The guy basically plays bare bones and doesn't need his effects although he has some minimal pedals. He is a perfectionist though and will get frustrated with everything if it isn't perfect. I don't care how bad he sounded in a 20 seconds set or even a 20 min set on TMS. If you think he can't play, you are a fool. The man is talented beyond words and so are most of these guys. For many of you to come on here and bash them because they sounded bad on a show that probably didn't suit them and then say that you could out play them....it is just ludicrous. Even Paul Gilbert kept stopping at the Iridium during his set because he had a problem with the levels and he couldn't play...and that was with HIS rig.

Dude... what are you smoking? No one said Kotzen can't play. There is obvious proof he can all over the web. The only thing said was that he sounded like shit and didn't play anything worth a shit on TMS, which is true. And frankly, there are plenty of guys here that I think could have done a better job of a few 20 second wanks on TMS compared SPECIFICALLY with the drivel he played on the show. Hell, I could play something more entertaining and I'm certainly not in any of these guys' class...

That said, Kotzen is one of my favorite players with superb legato technique. He just decided not to show that on TMS for some reason... It's almost like some 80s shredders have decided that it isn't "cool" to shred anymore even though they can - they'd rather play some other boring, shitty sounding non-shreddy crap because that is the cool "anti-shred" thing to do... Personally, I say play what brung ya to the show in the first place or stay home...

Once again, John 5 was awe-inspiring on the show, so it can be done. He took the time to prepare something cool for his little segments, was happy to shred it up and sounded great.... which is what Kotzen should have done and what Jake should have done as well (if he still can)...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Don't even get me started on the guitar tones either...if that makes me ludicrous so be it. Been playing for 35 years, my ears know sucking and garbage when they hear it.

Congrats...you're ludicrous!

I agreed with everything you had to say until the above quote. As a player with 35 years of experience, I'm rather amazed that you fail to understand that the tone we're hearing on our TV or computer speakers may not represent what was being heard in the room. How was it miked up? What mics were used? What was done in post production? Seems pretty pointless to place "tone blame" on a player when there are far too many unknown variables. Somebody on this forum (Jerry?) was there and said the tone sounded great in the room.

The playing on the other hand was total shit...can't blame that on any extenuation circumstances.

I disagree only because it was the sloppy playing that was contributing most to the tone being so bad... If there was any accuracy in the playing and not a lot of ringing notes that weren't intended, it would have sounded much better. Same thing with Kotzen. It's like they didn't care, or were purposely trying to show their distain for solo guitar playing. Don't take the gig then!

Also, 90% of the shitty video camera mics overloaded by a loud high gain amp clips sitting out on YouTube sound infinitely better, so mic placement, TV, etc... meh... I call bullshit...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I don't get the apologists here...doesn't matter if the pickup fell in, the amp was too quiet, the amp wasn't mic'ed up, or how many Grammies are on the resume. We watch, we see crap, & it confounds & angers us. Yes, many if us could outplay the performances noted. Am i better than Kotzen? No way, but i could outperform that drek with a blindfold. Yes, it is an unnerving situation that is quite different, but that's the gig. Own it.

Prepare something, make sure your gear is right, be proactive & get gear that will translate to my tv. It's not rocket science here, but it seems the only mic on the amp are the room mics. If you can't get a 57 up close, then grab a Kemper or fractal or eleven rack and send that to the board.
A whole group of people are falling short here, but in the end Joe Guitar hero takes the fall.

Damn straight!

Me an crankyray volunteer for the guest guitarist slots for next week's show and then you can tell us how much we suck...

I'm also volunteering Chubtone, gainfreak, chad (gibson4536272 or whatever), ant, Savage, rvs and a million other previous and current rig-talkers...

Steve

 

[rupe]

Don't even get me started on the guitar tones either...if that makes me ludicrous so be it. Been playing for 35 years, my ears know sucking and garbage when they hear it.

Congrats...you're ludicrous!

I agreed with everything you had to say until the above quote. As a player with 35 years of experience, I'm rather amazed that you fail to understand that the tone we're hearing on our TV or computer speakers may not represent what was being heard in the room. How was it miked up? What mics were used? What was done in post production? Seems pretty pointless to place "tone blame" on a player when there are far too many unknown variables. Somebody on this forum (Jerry?) was there and said the tone sounded great in the room.

The playing on the other hand was total shit...can't blame that on any extenuation circumstances.

I disagree only because it was the sloppy playing that was contributing most to the tone being so bad... If there was any accuracy in the playing and not a lot of ringing notes that weren't intended, it would have sounded much better. Same thing with Kotzen. It's like they didn't care, or were purposely trying to show their distain for solo guitar playing. Don't take the gig then!

Also, 90% of the shitty video camera mics overloaded by a loud high gain amp clips sitting out on YouTube sound infinitely better, so mic placement, TV, etc... meh... I call bullshit...

Steve

Perhaps, but the fact is we simply don't know. Jake may or may not have sounded sloppy with a different tone...open string drones don't necessarily equal sloppy playing. I honestly couldn't decipher what he was trying to do so I can't say it would still necessarily be garbage no matter what he played through or how he was miked up.

Point taken about Youtube camera vids that sound better, but there are probably just as many that sound worse so I can't go as far as to say that it's bs...it very well may be (and likely is), but we just don't know.

I think the one thing that anybody with an ear can agree on though is that Jake (and Richie) sounded awful and was a major disappointment.

 

[Greazygeo]

Perhaps, but the fact is we simply don't know. Jake may or may not have sounded sloppy with a different tone...open string drones don't necessarily equal sloppy playing. I honestly couldn't decipher what he was trying to do so I can't say it would still necessarily be garbage no matter what he played through or how he was miked up.

All I can say is that Jake has always been a sloppy player. He doesn't really mute anything with his right hand. He's made his mark already, so it really doesn't matter that he didn't do anything special on the show.

As far as Kotzen....he cut his hair and lost his mojo.

 

[Chubtone]

As far as Kotzen....he cut his hair and lost his mojo.

See, you lose all your mojo at one time with a hair cut. I have slowly lost my mojo one follicle at a time over the last 8 years. I've barely even noticed my mojo was gone.

 

[LP Freak]

As far as Kotzen....he cut his hair and lost his mojo.

See, you lose all your mojo at one time with a hair cut. I have slowly lost my mojo one follicle at a time over the last 8 years. I've barely even noticed my mojo was gone.

Yea, join the club.

 

[Greazygeo]

As far as Kotzen....he cut his hair and lost his mojo.

See, you lose all your mojo at one time with a hair cut. I have slowly lost my mojo one follicle at a time over the last 8 years. I've barely even noticed my mojo was gone.

I think they have a procedure to restore losing mojo now.

 

[baron55]

Perhaps, but the fact is we simply don't know. Jake may or may not have sounded sloppy with a different tone...open string drones don't necessarily equal sloppy playing. I honestly couldn't decipher what he was trying to do so I can't say it would still necessarily be garbage no matter what he played through or how he was miked up.

All I can say is that Jake has always been a sloppy player. He doesn't really mute anything with his right hand. He's made his mark already, so it really doesn't matter that he didn't do anything special on the show.

As far as Kotzen....he cut his hair and lost his mojo.

Yep he has always been pretty sloppy and average live. I have seen him 5 times live twice with Ozzy and 3 times with Badlands. It was painful to watch him struggle with he Randy Solos, he couldn't even play them correctly so he mad his own stuff up. Zakk Wylde on the other hand nailed everything spot on as if it were Randy. In fact Jake was Ozzy's weakest guitarist out of Rhoads, Gillis, Wylde and Holmes in my opinion. But hat is all up for interpretation.

Jake is better in the Studio. BTW Badlands is one of my favorite bands.

 

[rupe]

It was painful to watch him struggle with he Randy Solos, he couldn't even play them correctly so he mad his own stuff up. Zakk Wylde on the other hand nailed everything spot on as if it were Randy. In fact Jake was Ozzy's weakest guitarist out of Rhoads, Gillis, Wylde and Holmes in my opinion. But hat is all up for interpretation.

I completely disagree with that (I saw him twice with Ozzy, twice with Badlands, and once solo). Yeah, he added his own touch to Randy's solos (nowhere near the extent that Gillis did) but still stuck with the basic structure and feel...and never appeared to "struggle" IMO.

Let's use what was arguably Randy's "best" solo...is this your idea of a guitarist struggling to get through it?

Does he look like he's struggling during his first major Ozzy gig (in front of how many people?)?

Additionally, it's a fact that Ozzy has only released one album worth listening to since Jake's departure