Kemper to Fractal?

[DanTravis62]

Yeah, I never could get the Fractual to sound how I really wanted. The QC captures to me are much better. It wasn't perfect, the Fractal was plenty fine if you just want something that works.

I think the fractal can sound great - VESMedic has some really good demos with fractal models

That being said, when I had axefx I got caught in a doom loop of endlessly tweaking things over and over and could never get things to sound how I wanted either.

I vastly prefer the format of "profiling" snapshots of specific amps and miced sounds, it just seems more intuitive to me as far as the way I see tones and use them

 

[the rossness]

I'm not knocking you or anything but did I read that right?

"I have over 10k paid profiles on it and tbh, most sound line 1980’s retro-digital to my ears."

Paid over $10K of real money for profiles?

again, just asking for clarification

Over $10k??? No. Over 10k profiles, yes.

Back in the day, I bought a black-box of profiles listed on eBay. It was like like 7k profiles for $100. The rest I bought myself. I have STL, lots of choptonrs, big hairy guitars. All the big/ known profile guys.
I think the last pack I bought was Boutique tones Mezzabarba, which sound great for lead but kinda meh otherwise.

 

[chumbucket]

Something was always off for me, but I couldn’t figure out what it was until the newer machine learning devices came out. That showed me it was all in the aggressiveness of the pick attack and immediate punchy feel.

ToneX and NAM are great. I also just bought some NDSP plugins, and they also have a better feel. It has me wondering if I should look at a QC Mini. I am pretty deep with ToneX though. I have made hundreds of captures of all my tube gear. I use it more as a plugin than the pedals.

The QC Mini looks like a very cool device but they are essentially unobtanium at this point. Unless you score a used one, you could be 3-6 months out on a waiting list.

 

[the rossness]

Part of me is interested in the tweakability if Fractal. For example, I think I could pair an AC30’s preamp section with a Diezel Herbert’s poweramp. Its not actially a tone I’m going for, but just a bizarre way to describe how I hear fractal stuff functions.

Aldo running 2 amps at the same time seems interesting.

 

[Shask]

The QC Mini looks like a very cool device but they are essentially unobtanium at this point. Unless you score a used one, you could be 3-6 months out on a waiting list.

Yeah, I noticed that as I started looking into it. Oh well, I am not in a hurry, lol.

I have actually kind of been going through a personal dilemma. Since I got into ToneX, and more recently, a couple NDSP plugins, I am starting to question the need for a hardware modeler since I dont play out. My computer can do anything a hardware unit can do, but better. If I want to play hardware, I would rather play my tubes in the room. It has me wondering if a hardware modeler is even needed these days if you dont play out. Why have a $1000+ box sitting on your desk to plug it into the computer, when the computer can do the same thing....

 

[nightlight]

I went from Kemper to Fractal to Quad Cortex and currently just have the Axe FXIII.

The differences between all the units is minimal if your only consideration is a good tone. All of them can be dialled in that way.

I was really impressed with the quality of tones on all of the units really.

But I prefer running my preamps or amps even more. The emulations are not as good as them, imho.

 

[errrrrl]

I got a Kemper... it never really did it for me though. Something about the highs, I hear a cocked wah kinda sound to it with most profiles. I will say though, Kemper, Tonex and Nam sounds pretty decent thru a tube power amp into a real cab, but at that point I'd rather just use a real amp.

 

[chumbucket]

I went from Kemper to Fractal to Quad Cortex and currently just have the Axe FXIII.

The differences between all the units is minimal if your only consideration is a good tone. All of them can be dialled in that way.

I was really impressed with the quality of tones on all of the units really.

But I prefer running my preamps or amps even more. The emulations are not as good as them, imho.

I think that the Axe FX has the best I/O for doing a hybrid rig. It does the 4CM better than most. You can use the FX with your preamps or amps in the room and still get your signal through IRs to the board or PA.
It's the best of both worlds..

 

[Jakem]

The QC Mini looks like a very cool device but they are essentially unobtanium at this point. Unless you score a used one, you could be 3-6 months out on a waiting list.

I have owned a QC for like 2 years or so now and I dislike how that company is missing the schedules constantly on new features. I bought the Petrucci pack 1.5 years ago and it said at that time that ”PCOM coming soon”. Here we are and the pack is still not QC compatible. They have good profiling but how the company constantly misses the promises and schedules is just fucking disgusting. They won’t be getting more of my money. Actually I have not even played thru the QC in months so might as well sell it.

 

[cardinal]

The QC Mini looks like a very cool device but they are essentially unobtanium at this point. Unless you score a used one, you could be 3-6 months out on a waiting list.

Yeah, I'm waiting for them to be more readily available. I had a QC and liked it except the hardware felt like shit. I'm using a Nano now just for the captures I made and would like a QC mini to keep in a rack with a Morningstar controller on the floor.

 

[Omnipotent1]

Yeah, I noticed that as I started looking into it. Oh well, I am not in a hurry, lol.

I have actually kind of been going through a personal dilemma. Since I got into ToneX, and more recently, a couple NDSP plugins, I am starting to question the need for a hardware modeler since I dont play out. My computer can do anything a hardware unit can do, but better. If I want to play hardware, I would rather play my tubes in the room. It has me wondering if a hardware modeler is even needed these days if you dont play out. Why have a $1000+ box sitting on your desk to plug it into the computer, when the computer can do the same thing....

Hey! Glad someone else here is giving this a go lol if you don’t play out/have a decent computer this is the most budget friendly option. Incorporate a DAW & you can really play with yourself I mean … I understand some people don’t want to mess with a computer. Hardware is nice for plug & play. VSTs just offer a different world of possibilities. Sometimes I’ll even do a hybrid approach lol turning off the cab sim in the plugin & using a Radial JCR reamp box into A Bogner Barcelona (single channel clean) through whatever the cab flavor of the day is. Fun Frankensteiny stuff.

 

[chumbucket]

Yeah, I'm waiting for them to be more readily available. I had a QC and liked it except the hardware felt like shit. I'm using a Nano now just for the captures I made and would like a QC mini to keep in a rack with a Morningstar controller on the floor.

I love the Mini form factor. Lotsa power in a pedal board friendly package. I always thought that the regular QC looked dumb because of the foot switch spacing. The mini can fit nicely on a small board with a Morningstar.

 

[Shask]

Hey! Glad someone else here is giving this a go lol if you don’t play out/have a decent computer this is the most budget friendly option. Incorporate a DAW & you can really play with yourself I mean … I understand some people don’t want to mess with a computer. Hardware is nice for plug & play. VSTs just offer a different world of possibilities. Sometimes I’ll even do a hybrid approach lol turning off the cab sim in the plugin & using a Radial JCR reamp box into A Bogner Barcelona (single channel clean) through whatever the cab flavor of the day is. Fun Frankensteiny stuff.

I used to HATE playing through the computer. You can find many posts from me talking about how horrible it sounded and felt so uninspiring to play. However, last year when I tried ToneX and NAM I was blown away. This new machine learning technology is finally capturing the dynamic punchy feel, instead of being flat and fuzzy.

I was impressed enough I bought a new computer and interface. I got an IK interface that has the guitar input stuff to improve the feel, and another major thing was getting software to mix my own IRs from packs. Being able to mix room IRs with the direct mics helps a lot to not sound like an icepick in the eardrum.

Once I started making ToneX captures of my real tube amps, it was over. Best digital tones I have ever had. Better than Fractal, Line 6, Boss, etc...

Yeah, I have also ran a line out of my interface into a power amp and pair of 412 cabs. This is normally how I tweak sounds to download onto my little ToneX One pedal, so that I can duplicate it into a little box.

In one year I have completely changed how I look at it, while my big modelers are collecting dust.

Yeah, in terms of cost, Reaper, ToneX, and a couple Valhalla plugins cost like $300, and sound better than my Fractals. The Fractal is still better on switching, but I don't really need that since I don't play out.

 

[hellzington]

I went from a Kemper to an AxeFX and it was a great decision.

I bought the Kemper in 2020 and while I thought it was really neat, the tech already felt dated then and it's six years later. The main issue for me was the Rig Manager. It was absolutely awful software. Difficult to use, not intuitive, old fashioned; it felt like using iTunes. Using the knobs and switches on the unit was not any better as there's no touch screen and the screen that is there looks like an 80's hand-held video game. I know they have recently updated the Kemper but it looks mostly superficial except for the liquid profiling, which addressed the huge "snapshot" weakness of the Kemper. The real proof is in the pudding, though, and that's that if you look around, everyone is unloading their Kempers. There are just SO many better solutions now, everything from tiny ToneX pedals to huge pedalboards and rack units.

I think the AxeFX is amazing. It's everything I wanted the Kemper to be. The only thing about it that sucks is that there is no profiling/capturing; but, in my opinion, most captures/profiles done by regular dudes at home suck. The best Kemper profiles you have to buy, so expect to be doing that. The AxeFX is all-in-one and the models sound far superior to any patch I played on the Kemper. But the best part of the AxeFX, by far, is their computer app, the AxeEDIT III. It's absolutely incredible. It's easy to get started with the visual signal chain map and yet it can take you allllllllllllll the way down the rabbit hole if you want to. Some people get thrown off by this and call it "option paralysis" or "digging through menus" but you don't have to do any of that to make the AxeFX sound great. There's a ton of studio-quality effects that will work with any outboard gear, for example a guitar amp with a Line Out. It's great for re-amping, too. There's just so many things it can do and at the end of the day, it's not really that expensive.

Here are a couple of quick tips and tricks for you:

• Go into your Cab Block and dial the high pass to 80Hz and the low pass to 7000Hz. This will immediately make the AxeFX sound more like a real guitar amp in the room instead of a digital FRFR box. Don't be shy about adjusting them more aggressively. For example, some speaker IR's like the ML Sound Lab Greenback, have a lot of rumbling bass that requires the high pass to go up to 120hz. Some amps like the Mesa DR are fizzy and can use a more aggressive low pass around 5500Hz. I know you're thinking "but my tone bruh!" Trust me, it will sound better and more like a real amp in the room.
  
  
• If you want recording-ready patches:
  • Add a JFET Studio Compressor (i.e., an 1176) after your Cab Block. Make sure to change the compressor's input level to "Line" at the bottom right. (It is set to "Instrument" by default.) Use these settings: Threshold -40 | Ratio 4 | Attack 30ms | Release 20ms. Turn off the "Auto Makeup" and use the Level control instead.
  • Consider adding a Parametric EQ to the end of your chain. Start with a dip of -3db at 6k with a Q of 8 and a dip of -2db at 300Hz with a Q of 6. Roll the second one around a little; it might sound best at 240Hz or 260Hz. Your guitar will instantly sound more "professional." If you want more "Marshall Kerrang" out of any amp, just add 3db at 1.1k with a Q of 10.
    
• Run your effects in parallel. Put a "dry" line through the center to your PEQ or Output. This is your uncolored guitar signal. Then put a "wet" line to the sides. Set the mix on each effect to 100% wet then use the Level control to adjust the effect. (See photo.) This will generally sound better and make the guitars "bigger."

Feel free to DM me if you have any other questions. Good luck!

 

[Jccobb2]

Don’t sleep on the newer helix. I got one and the newer amp modeling tech line6 has is really good. Their cloning engine is great too, gives you a best of both worlds approach. I had a QC and moved it along for the line 6.

 

[Omnipotent1]

and a couple Valhalla plugins

Man of class I haven’t given Tonex a go yet thanks for the insight! That will be next on my digital list I didn’t know you can make captures I’ll probably hit you up for some pointers if you don’t mind.

 

[Shask]

Man of class I haven’t given Tonex a go yet thanks for the insight! That will be next on my digital list I didn’t know you can make captures I’ll probably hit you up for some pointers if you don’t mind.

Yeah, the Valhalla stuff is great. I also have all the NI Komplete stuff, and all the IK T-Racks stuff, so I have more than enough effects.

Yeah, ToneX actually has 3 programs. There is the main VST plugin and stand-alone, the pedal editor, and the modeler/capture software. You can also use it inside Amplitube if you want the traditional kitchen sink type guitar processor.

I have a reamp DI box and a reactive load box. I have made hundreds of captures. I did probably 60 this week of a few Synergy modules.

 

[chumbucket]

I went from a Kemper to an AxeFX and it was a great decision.

I bought the Kemper in 2020 and while I thought it was really neat, the tech already felt dated then and it's six years later. The main issue for me was the Rig Manager. It was absolutely awful software. Difficult to use, not intuitive, old fashioned; it felt like using iTunes. Using the knobs and switches on the unit was not any better as there's no touch screen and the screen that is there looks like an 80's hand-held video game. I know they have recently updated the Kemper but it looks mostly superficial except for the liquid profiling, which addressed the huge "snapshot" weakness of the Kemper. The real proof is in the pudding, though, and that's that if you look around, everyone is unloading their Kempers. There are just SO many better solutions now, everything from tiny ToneX pedals to huge pedalboards and rack units.

I think the AxeFX is amazing. It's everything I wanted the Kemper to be. The only thing about it that sucks is that there is no profiling/capturing; but, in my opinion, most captures/profiles done by regular dudes at home suck. The best Kemper profiles you have to buy, so expect to be doing that. The AxeFX is all-in-one and the models sound far superior to any patch I played on the Kemper. But the best part of the AxeFX, by far, is their computer app, the AxeEDIT III. It's absolutely incredible. It's easy to get started with the visual signal chain map and yet it can take you allllllllllllll the way down the rabbit hole if you want to. Some people get thrown off by this and call it "option paralysis" or "digging through menus" but you don't have to do any of that to make the AxeFX sound great. There's a ton of studio-quality effects that will work with any outboard gear, for example a guitar amp with a Line Out. It's great for re-amping, too. There's just so many things it can do and at the end of the day, it's not really that expensive.

Here are a couple of quick tips and tricks for you:

• Go into your Cab Block and dial the high pass to 80Hz and the low pass to 7000Hz. This will immediately make the AxeFX sound more like a real guitar amp in the room instead of a digital FRFR box. Don't be shy about adjusting them more aggressively. For example, some speaker IR's like the ML Sound Lab Greenback, have a lot of rumbling bass that requires the high pass to go up to 120hz. Some amps like the Mesa DR are fizzy and can use a more aggressive low pass around 5500Hz. I know you're thinking "but my tone bruh!" Trust me, it will sound better and more like a real amp in the room.
  
  
• If you want recording-ready patches:
  • Add a JFET Studio Compressor (i.e., an 1176) after your Cab Block. Make sure to change the compressor's input level to "Line" at the bottom right. (It is set to "Instrument" by default.) Use these settings: Threshold -40 | Ratio 4 | Attack 30ms | Release 20ms. Turn off the "Auto Makeup" and use the Level control instead.
  • Consider adding a Parametric EQ to the end of your chain. Start with a dip of -3db at 6k with a Q of 8 and a dip of -2db at 300Hz with a Q of 6. Roll the second one around a little; it might sound best at 240Hz or 260Hz. Your guitar will instantly sound more "professional." If you want more "Marshall Kerrang" out of any amp, just add 3db at 1.1k with a Q of 10.
• Run your effects in parallel. Put a "dry" line through the center to your PEQ or Output. This is your uncolored guitar signal. Then put a "wet" line to the sides. Set the mix on each effect to 100% wet then use the Level control to adjust the effect. (See photo.) This will generally sound better and make the guitars "bigger."

Feel free to DM me if you have any other questions. Good luck!

^Share some patches brother.

I think that when Fractal releases their next gen device with NAM player capabilities, folks are going to forget about Neural QC and Helix. Imagine some of these killer NAM profiles with Fractal's effects in front and back. It'll be a game changer for sure. I just hope that it has enough juice to run multiple profiles in a single patch. It would be killer to have at least two NAM amps with maybe a NAM drive in front and then use the Fractal FX for mods, delays, and reverbs.

 

[Shask]

^Share some patches brother.

I think that when Fractal releases their next gen device with NAM player capabilities, folks are going to forget about Neural QC and Helix. Imagine some of these killer NAM profiles with Fractal's effects in front and back. It'll be a game changer for sure. I just hope that it has enough juice to run multiple profiles in a single patch. It would be killer to have at least two NAM amps with maybe a NAM drive in front and then use the Fractal FX for mods, delays, and reverbs.

Maybe. Probably depends on price also. With all the specs I have read, I wouldn't be surprised if it is $3k.

For me, after years of Fractal, I have learned I don't need 95% of what it can do. It is hard to spend that much when a ToneX One and a delay pedal will do.

 

[chumbucket]

Maybe. Probably depends on price also. With all the specs I have read, I wouldn't be surprised if it is $3k.

For me, after years of Fractal, I have learned I don't need 95% of what it can do. It is hard to spend that much when a ToneX One and a delay pedal will do.

Yeah, I keep thinking that I should try to minimize and sell some gear, then I get lost in jamming while playing the Fractals and then I change my mind.

I have one of these on the way to push me in that direction until the NAM Fractal gets announced.
https://sonulab.com/stompstationpro/