Kiesel's customer service sucks!

[Metlupass2]

What did he say?

Pretty much that it's unfortunate that he used some camera trickery to try and fool people that the neck want flat in the pocket.

12:30 in the video.

 

[Hardvalve]

Watched it.

 

[Hardvalve]

So a while back I received my Kiesel A6H build, and despite the fact that it was indeed a stunning guitar aesthetically, regrettably I returned it for a refund. I can honestly say that this was one of the most horrible customer experiences I've encountered, and I'll never even remotely consider another Kiesel product again.

There were several reasons I finally had enough and asked them to refund me:

1) Horrible experience with Mike Jones, my sales guy. This is explained in detail below for those interested in a lengthy read.

2) Action problems related to the bridge saddle heights. (Pics of this below)

3) Failure by the techs to address my concerns despite a very detailed letter I sent in with the guitar and a promise made by their sales manager.


Here is the conversation with Mike Jones, my sales guy:

Bear in mind I only contacted Mike about 4 times over the course of 3 months, so its not like I was hounding the guy.

The 4th time I contacted him because I had received an email from Kiesel stating that my guitar was complete and ready to ship. I had asked they ship it on a particular date and after getting their message that it was ready, I called Mike just to confirm they were shipping on the correct date.

Well here is how the conversation went (This is all 100% direct quoting

Me: Hi Mike how you doing, I just wanted to check the shipping status of my guitar.

Mike: Oh unfortunately we can't check on status of guitars in production.

Me: Oh no, I'm calling because I received an email that my guitar is complete and ready to ship.

Mike: Oh, Ok. Let me check on this. I'll have to check and call you back later because with NAMM coming up, were not allowed anywhere near the back where all the guitars are kept.

Me: Ok, but they emailed me and told me my guitar was ready to ship, so I guess I'm a bit confused here.

Mike: It may be done, but with NAMM coming up its not uncommon that they steal parts off customers completed guitars if need be to get our NAMM guitars ready to show.

Me: Oh! Well why don't you check on this, and please let me know today if you could.


So about 1.5 hours after hanging up with him I think shit on this, what's he talking about "stealing parts off customers finished guitars". So I call back for the 2nd time.


I get Mike on the line for the 2nd time this day and here is how it goes:

Me: Hey Mike, I called a little while ago checking on my completed guitar.

Here he cuts me off real aggressively:

Mike: You know your being really rude!

Me: Excuse me?

Mike: Yeah, I told you I would check on this and call you back. Now your calling back bothering me about your guitar, and its really starting to irritate me!

Me: Dude, Did you really just say that to me?

Mike: (In a completely aggressive tone) Yeah, I did. Because I told you we are not allowed near the guitars and also because there is a chance like I told you that even if your guitar is done and ready to ship, they may need to take parts off it to get ready for NAMM.

Me: So your telling me that even though my guitar is complete, ready to ship, and I have paid for it in full several days ago and thus essentially now own the guitar, they might need to take parts off of it.

Mike: Yep, That's exactly what I'm telling you.


At this point I'm fucking beyond pissed, and I tell Mike to have a good day and hang up.

I immediately email the billing person that emailed me several days prior informing me the guitar was complete and explain how Mike Jones just treated me. 15 minutes later Mike Jones calls back and no apology whatsoever tells me the guitars done and its shipping Monday. I thanked him and hung the fuck up.

So that should have been when I told them to keep the guitar and refund me, but unfortunately I didn't.

Now for the action problem I had that led to me sending the guitar in after speaking with the sales manager and their lead tech.

I sent the guitar in to have Albert their lead tech look at it after speaking with him on the phone. Talking to him gave me the impression he absolutely just did not care about anything I was saying. Spoke to him the first day and he couldn't think of anything that would cause the issues, so I asked if he could think on it and call me or email me by end of day. He said "yep, absolutely let you know before I leave today". Never heard back. Called him the next day and said "Hi Albert this is Mike, I spoke to yesterday about my Aries 6 issues. He says " Yeah?", and there's just this awkward dead silence. Just came off like he didn't care at all. Like why are you bothering me with this. He told me to just send it in because he still couldn't think what would cause the issues I described.

Now I sent it back with a VERY detailed letter explaining my issues and asked specifically that they call me after looking at it and before sending it back because if they couldn't get the saddle heights corrected by shimming, or by replacing the .125" bridge with the thicker .175" baseplate version, then I would just want them to keep the guitar and give me a refund.

The sales manager said they would absolutely call me after looking at it and before sending it back to me because he personally put a note in the tech's work order. It never happened. They ignored my detailed letter and the "supposed" tech notes the sales manager put in the work order because after about a week I called just to see if they had looked at it yet and the same sales manager that promised they'd contact me after it was looked at said "oh, its done and FedEx is picking it up here today and its on its way back to you".

I asked if he could stop the delivery and he said he couldn't. Which I didn't believe but....maybe that was true, I don't know. I asked what they did to correct the bridge saddle heights and he said they adjusted the truss rod. I told him that I already did this in addition to making all sorts of other adjustments and that's not where the problem was stemming from. He said well, just try it out and we can go from there.

I knew for a fact that the issue could not be fixed with a truss rod adjustment, so after all the bullshit I had been dealing with I decided to refuse delivery when the FedEx guy came and it went back for a refund.

Here is how the guitar came brand new from the factory set up:

The saddles were completely maxed out on the 6th and 5th strings and then almost maxed out on the remaining four. I couldn't get the saddles anywhere near adjusted to match the fretboard radius. It played REALLY bad. Action was horrible. This was set up by them as requested by me in drop C with .012-.054 strings. No way the saddles should have been had to be set at that height, but even a fraction of a mm lower and there was fret buzz all over the fretboard. I thought if they replaced the .125" Hipshot with the .175" taller version that this could have corrected things. Or hell, even if they had shimmed the neck, or both?


I'll just finish by saying the guitar was absolutely drop dead gorgeous, it came out exactly how I had hoped aesthetically, had no fit to finish flaws that I could find, had a great fundamental tone to it, and I truly wanted to keep it if they could have worked with me. Unfortunately however, the impression I got was they really could not have cared less.

I noticed the bridge in that video looks to be gold, the original picture was black. Seems pretty odd.

 

[Metlupass2]

Say what? It's not the same guitar. Jeff was just showing that one at the time he mentioned about the neck joint.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

What did he say?

Pretty much that it's unfortunate that he used some camera trickery to try and fool people that the neck want flat in the pocket.

12:30 in the video.

He made a video pertaining to this whole incident? And he's trying to use this neck/pocket picture as part of his defense for appalling customer service and a flawed build that they corrected with a truss rod adjustment...Wow!!!

Let me just say that the whole neck/pocket thing was NOT even something I declared as causing the issues I had with the saddles. I made no mention of it and hadn't even thought about it until another member brought it up and asked if I had a picture showing the neck/pocket relationship. Even then, I never made any claims stating that this caused the saddle issues.

Wait, what did I state along with that picture...oh here it is:

"Another member mentioned this, and I'm not sure if this picture shows the neck angle/pocket as maybe contributing to the issue I had with saddle height, but here is the only pic that would show that relationship:"

I used "camera trickery" That's great

Wow, these guys are truly pitiful. To go this far out of your way just to protect an ego that was so big as to prohibit taking care of a customer that just wanted you to fix his flawed guitar

 

[Metlupass2]

No he was doing a Facebook live video in the shop and mentioned it for a few seconds. It's on their Facebook page and fast forward to 12:30.

 

[Deanmachine]

fuck these guys you don't see Peter Diezel,Friedman,Suhr treat there customers like this
They sympathize recognize the issue and deal with it...and its obvious that the poster here wanted to
Have this guitar fixed and not come on here to make up some Kiesel conspiracy I am never never doing business with these dicks..

 

[MetalHeadMike]

No he was doing a Facebook live video in the shop and mentioned it for a few seconds. It's on their Facebook page and fast forward to 12:30.

I got ya Thanks man. I misunderstood. I thought maybe he went into detail specifically referencing my incident and that picture.

 

[Hardvalve]

Say what? It's not the same guitar. Jeff was just showing that one at the time he mentioned about the neck joint.

I thought it was supposed to be the same guitar the OP posted. That would have made more sense if he was trying make that point.

 

[Metlupass2]

Nope definitely a different guitar.

 

[Hardvalve]

Nope definitely a different guitar.

Wonder why he didn't use the same one since it was returned?

 

[mystixboi]

Nope definitely a different guitar.

Wonder why he didn't use the same one since it was returned?

I think it's already been resold

 

[sleewell2]

Kiesel are trash guitars for kids who don't know better. I don't buy the line about trying to do better, they've said that multiple times. Way better options out there.

 

[Holy-diver]

holy shit that response though what a perfect way to validate all the complaints made and make it obvious Kiesel really doesn't care about the customer.

Also, what a fantastic ego.

 

[Hardvalve]

Nope definitely a different guitar.

Wonder why he didn't use the same one since it was returned?

I think it's already been resold

Wow, resell the guitar that started the thread. Wonder if they actually fixed it, if it was able to be repaired? Showing a completely different guitar while stating it is impossible to have the issue the OP had. Seems like a good move.

 

[Jdguitar]

A CNC can create that angle if a small sliver of wood or little bit of saw dust left under the wood blank. CNC machines are only as good as the user. What a joke to say it can't happen.

 

[JerryP]

It's not the camera angle its the wood grain that throws you off. The neck angle isn't as bad as it looks. Those saddles need help though!

 

[Jdguitar]

Yes, it could very well be the camera angle or wood grain. I was just responding to Jeff saying it couldn't be a CNC issue. It can happen.

 

[Bluplirst]

This is what happens when a spoiled brat inherits the family business.

Bought about a dozen custom carvins back in the day, even when a couple had problems i was always treated great.

Keep milking Jason Becker's name and the djent fad, Jeff. What a shame for what was a great American company.

 

[scottosan]

Kiesel are trash guitars for kids who don't know better. I don't buy the line about trying to do better, they've said that multiple times. Way better options out there.

Anther Internet forum bandwagon dog pile. While I completely agree the the OP's situation was handled wrong by Kiesel at several levels, that doesn't mean they are all trash. Ultimately they made right. Any guitar maker thats been in business at their price point and even higher is going to put out some dogs and have employees that have bad days. I have seen dogs come from Gibson, Fender, Charvel, Nash, Martin, Taylor, etc... I have been playing for 30+ years and have owned a half dozen Gibson Historics, Andersons, Suhrs, Fender CS's, etc. I have owned 2 Carvin/Kiesels and both were quality and a bargain.

Making hasty generalizations based on limited experience or a small sample size is what is for kids.