Kiesel's customer service sucks!

[MetalHeadMike]

Until you know both sides of the story, you don't really know when a gripe is legitimate, or a retaliatory response when their unreasonable demands were rebuffed, or somewhere in between.

Kiesel's side of the story is the backwards neck angle and jacked up bridge saddles. Even if 100% of the customer service complaints were made up, that's a poorly made guitar.

Not saying your accusing me of fabricating the conversation with Mr. Jones and I understand its the nature of these situations to have doubt in one side of the story or the other, especially when you don't know a guy from Adam, but what I posted is 100% word for word how that conversion went. Absolutely zero fluff, exaggeration, or fabrication. If I could have recorded the conversation, what you read here is exactly what you would have heard had you been able to tap into the conversation.

Sorry man, didn't mean to imply that at all - was just saying there was no need to give them the benefit of the doubt when the guitar's problem spoke for itself.

No, your good man. Just wanted to emphasis that what I reported was indeed 100% fact.

 

[messenger]

It is much cheaper to call a customer and say there was a build issue and just redo it then to loose potential customers through forum discussions like this.

Pretty sure OP did return the guitar for a refund. It's the way the staff spoke to him more than anything.

 

[messenger]

Seems like a common issue with them - if you check the photos on their IG page some of these hipshot loaded guitars have their saddles nearly maxed out too...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbnNQ6hNBI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRKvYQBByWu/

Looks like maybe they need to rethink the neck angle when using hipshot bridges

 

[maddnotez]

Seems like a common issue with them - if you check the photos on their IG page some of these hipshot loaded guitars have their saddles nearly maxed out too...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbnNQ6hNBI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRKvYQBByWu/

Looks like maybe they need to rethink the neck angle when using hipshot bridges

Yeah idk how they can post those pics and be proud. I've played a hipshot but those just don't look right.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Seems like a common issue with them - if you check the photos on their IG page some of these hipshot loaded guitars have their saddles nearly maxed out too...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbnNQ6hNBI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRKvYQBByWu/

Looks like maybe they need to rethink the neck angle when using hipshot bridges

At least in that first link pic it looks like the saddles matched the fretboard radius. It wasn't just the absurd height of the saddles in my case but also the fact that because of that, the radius of the saddles was all over the place with no way to get even close to matching the fretboard radius.

 

[Steinmetzify]

I am surprised people at Kiesel seem to be ignoring this thread, I do follow them on Facebook and was considering a build at some point but this is definitely a red flag.

Many years ago I commissioned a Suhr build from one of their dealers, Standard Carvetop. When the guitar arrived the book match of the top was really not great, no so much their fault as the problem really was the asymmetric nature of the wood when the carving was done which yielded quite different patterns on each side; the guitar was great but that cosmetic thing was bothering me a bit. Exchanged some emails with John Suhr and he asked me to send the guitar back; he sold to another dealer at a good discount (I believe) and build me a brand new one (no charges). Since then I have bough 10+ new guitars from them.

THAT is customer service. Make them happy the first time and keep fucking doing it and you'll have a customer for life, and I've heard nothing but great things about Suhr as a company.

I've been watching these threads on SSO for a couple years, including the snafu that caused Kiesel to yank their forum sponsorship (someone had a serious issue and Kiesel flat out said NO RETURNS so dude took to social media) and getting their reps banned from that forum, and I'd never give em one thin dime. Glad OP got his money back.

Like someone said above, your product IS your side of the story....a guitar showed up looking like that it'd be back in the box inside of 5 minutes. That's amateur level shit right there.

 

[Faded Abyss]

Having a guitar that is so flawed and several instances of such flaws... It was smart of them to take the guitar back so it couldn't be exposed further. maybe they are being bombarded with quality issues and don't know how to handle them or maybe this Mike guy is being thrown into the fire with 10 different job titles or hats to wear. No excuse to be rude to customers though.. come on

 

[phil b]

Seems like a common issue with them - if you check the photos on their IG page some of these hipshot loaded guitars have their saddles nearly maxed out too...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbnNQ6hNBI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRKvYQBByWu/

Looks like maybe they need to rethink the neck angle when using hipshot bridges

At least in that first link pic it looks like the saddles matched the fretboard radius. It wasn't just the absurd height of the saddles in my case but also the fact that because of that, the radius of the saddles was all over the place with no way to get even close to matching the fretboard radius.

I just dont understand how you can build a guitar with that neck angle and expect it to set up properly... I am guessing not all these guitars are built that way and this was just a fluke??

 

[Jdguitar]

How did that neck pocket get made that way and how did the guitar get sent out like that? Would the set up guy not say...ummm we have problem here.... Kiesel...time to explain this one.

 

[messenger]

Maybe it's shimmed to try and correct the bridge /saddle issue?

 

[Pushead]

The necks and bodies are cut on CNC machines. So we'd be looking at a CNC machine introducing an error that only affects one axis of the neck heel, and then going past a couple other sets of eyes/hands before going out the door. How, indeed.

I wasn't sure if they're using multi axis CNC machines. They may not be able to do an angled neck pocket on their machines.

 

[Ricardo Ruiz]

Hello everyone, my name is Ricardo and I am the customer service manager at Kiesel Guitars.
Jeff asked me to make an account on here and post his quote to address this issue.

“I have been looking at this post and watching it over the last few days, I want to address these concerns you have.
1. As far as a neck not parallel with the body – that is simply the camera angle the image is shot at (we all know what the overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion) it is impossible for the neck to not be perfectly parallel in height with the body since both are cut on our CnC machine.
2. Saddle height, I actually have the email from Mike Hess (thread creator here) that is making this complaint and will quote him right here “Thanks for the reply. As stated in my email to Keith, I already checked/re-adjusted relief, re-adjusted saddle height (Height is currently maxed out)” So as you can see Mike adjusted the saddle height and maxed these out himself and it did not come that way from our shop, in fact, we had to give it a whole new set up and undo everything he did to it.
3. Robbing parts off customer guitars for NAMM, this is not even close to accurate. Occasionally when NAMM has come around we have been low on parts and used them to complete the NAMM builds in place of finishing a customer build – we do not pull parts off a guitar once they are on the guitar.
4. Customer Service and Attitude – like anything there are 2 sides to every story, having said that this story did not play out exactly as Mike Hess is making it sound and I know this because it is not often there is a major conflict like this and there were 4 others in the room when this happened and they remember how many times Mike Hess kept calling in to talk with Mike Jones that particular day. Now I am not defending Mike Jones and agree and wish things were handled differently in this situation and the other situations that were also mentioned in this thread. I will tell you I sat everyone down here and got everyone on the same page. We all agree things have gotten a little out of line at times and that is just because we are all very passionate about what we are doing – including you guys 

It really bums me out to read this type of experience and I can tell you, I am not ok with it and it is not acceptable – this will improve our customer service and make us even better. So thank you guys for calling us on it. Please also understand that we are humans here and obviously we make mistakes and can have an off days as well. I will tell you our quality of our guitars has never been better, the amount of love and time that goes into each one has never been higher. So please don’t let this thread spoil your thoughts on us and our commitment to building the best guitars. Also, don’t let these off angle photos get you thinking there is something wrong, we all know these camera phones have wide angle lenses and distort the image and can make parts that are closer appear different in perspective to further parts (overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion).

In closing you guys all know how to reach me, so if you want to talk about something feel free to shoot me a message www.facebook.com/officialjeffkiesel (keep in mind I answer all of my messages myself – and it can take me a few days, so you don’t need to send multiple messages in the same day asking if I got it). Thanks for your understanding here and helping us improve the experience for you guys.”

Jeff Kiesel
VP Kiesel Guitars


We will not be monitoring this post after this response, In the above message you can read Jeff’s response to this. If you guys need anything, I am here Mon-Fri 930-6pm PST, so feel free to reach out directly to me as well by phone at 858-GUITARS or email Ricardo@KieselGuitars.com

 

[messenger]

Actually now that I look at it I think the grain is creating an optical illusion. I held a business card along the neck pocket and one along the fingerboard and it's pretty darn even. I think the tapered grain in that area make it look angled.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Hello everyone, my name is Ricardo and I am the customer service manager at Kiesel Guitars.
Jeff asked me to make an account on here and post his quote to address this issue.

“I have been looking at this post and watching it over the last few days, I want to address these concerns you have.
1. As far as a neck not parallel with the body – that is simply the camera angle the image is shot at (we all know what the overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion) it is impossible for the neck to not be perfectly parallel in height with the body since both are cut on our CnC machine.
2. Saddle height, I actually have the email from Mike Hess (thread creator here) that is making this complaint and will quote him right here “Thanks for the reply. As stated in my email to Keith, I already checked/re-adjusted relief, re-adjusted saddle height (Height is currently maxed out)” So as you can see Mike adjusted the saddle height and maxed these out himself and it did not come that way from our shop, in fact, we had to give it a whole new set up and undo everything he did to it.
3. Robbing parts off customer guitars for NAMM, this is not even close to accurate. Occasionally when NAMM has come around we have been low on parts and used them to complete the NAMM builds in place of finishing a customer build – we do not pull parts off a guitar once they are on the guitar.
4. Customer Service and Attitude – like anything there are 2 sides to every story, having said that this story did not play out exactly as Mike Hess is making it sound and I know this because it is not often there is a major conflict like this and there were 4 others in the room when this happened and they remember how many times Mike Hess kept calling in to talk with Mike Jones that particular day. Now I am not defending Mike Jones and agree and wish things were handled differently in this situation and the other situations that were also mentioned in this thread. I will tell you I sat everyone down here and got everyone on the same page. We all agree things have gotten a little out of line at times and that is just because we are all very passionate about what we are doing – including you guys 

It really bums me out to read this type of experience and I can tell you, I am not ok with it and it is not acceptable – this will improve our customer service and make us even better. So thank you guys for calling us on it. Please also understand that we are humans here and obviously we make mistakes and can have an off days as well. I will tell you our quality of our guitars has never been better, the amount of love and time that goes into each one has never been higher. So please don’t let this thread spoil your thoughts on us and our commitment to building the best guitars. Also, don’t let these off angle photos get you thinking there is something wrong, we all know these camera phones have wide angle lenses and distort the image and can make parts that are closer appear different in perspective to further parts (overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion).

In closing you guys all know how to reach me, so if you want to talk about something feel free to shoot me a message https://www.facebook.com/officialjeffkiesel (keep in mind I answer all of my messages myself – and it can take me a few days, so you don’t need to send multiple messages in the same day asking if I got it). Thanks for your understanding here and helping us improve the experience for you guys.”

Jeff Kiesel
VP Kiesel Guitars


We will not be monitoring this post after this response, In the above message you can read Jeff’s response to this. If you guys need anything, I am here Mon-Fri 930-6pm PST, so feel free to reach out directly to me as well by phone at 858-GUITARS or email Ricardo@KieselGuitars.com

I will call you here out Jeff and am not afraid to say that you and several others there at Kiesel are straight up liars. In my eyes this company has zero integrity and should be ashamed at so many levels.

Let me address your statements here:

2. Saddle height in the picture in this thread and the NGD thread I posted here are from the day I first received the guitar and were taken right out of the box. Your quote from my return letter states that I adjusted saddle heights, and I'll say of course I re-adjusted it when it arrived, the action and intonation were absolutely horrible. The former doesn't negate the fact that when the guitar arrived in my hands the first time out of the box, the saddles were jacked up, the guitar played like crap, and it clearly had issues.

3. If Mike Jones denies saying this exactly as how I have quoted him here, then he is a bald-faced liar and you are a liar as well for trying to cover for him. These are his exact words from the day I spoke with him regarding shipment of my completed and payed in full guitar:

Mr. Jones exact words: "It may be done, but with NAMM coming up its not uncommon that they steal parts off customers completed guitars if need be to get our NAMM guitars ready to show."

Mr Jones exact words: "Yeah, I did. Because I told you we are not allowed near the guitars and also because there is a chance like I told you that even if your guitar is done and ready to ship, they may need to take parts off it to get ready for NAMM."

4. As far as how many times I called that Friday and spoke to Mike Jones it was two. I called one other time that day and was told that Mike was on another call, so total calls in that day=3, but I really don't see how that has any relevance. Anyone there that says that I was calling in repeatedly is again a bald-faced liar.


As for this statement you make here:

"Also, don’t let these off angle photos get you thinking there is something wrong, we all know these camera phones have wide angle lenses and distort the image and can make parts that are closer appear different in perspective to further parts (overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion)."

I don't even own a cell phone. All pictures were taken with a Sony DSC-HX9V digital camera, so I'm not sure how much "distortion" there was chief.

You guys wouldn't admit privately to me and me only that there was something wrong with that guitar despite having a paying customer that was willing to work with you on it and who truly wanted to keep it. Why in the hell would you admit any fault here publicly.

As far as I'm concerned Kiesel is deceitful, arrogant, and unwilling to work with customers who have legitimate issues.

 

[motorboy1]

Now we're cookin...

 

[8len8]

Interesting to hear the other side of the story. OP, could you take a pic of the neck from another angle to at least put that issue to rest?

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Interesting to hear the other side of the story. OP, could you take a pic of the neck from another angle to at least put that issue to rest?

The guitar was returned weeks ago.

 

[ibzprestige]

Jeff said something about it on their live feed today on Facebook

 

[crankyrayhanky]

What did he say?

 

[alan67]

Hello everyone, my name is Ricardo and I am the customer service manager at Kiesel Guitars.
Jeff asked me to make an account on here and post his quote to address this issue.

“I have been looking at this post and watching it over the last few days, I want to address these concerns you have.
1. As far as a neck not parallel with the body – that is simply the camera angle the image is shot at (we all know what the overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion) it is impossible for the neck to not be perfectly parallel in height with the body since both are cut on our CnC machine.
2. Saddle height, I actually have the email from Mike Hess (thread creator here) that is making this complaint and will quote him right here “Thanks for the reply. As stated in my email to Keith, I already checked/re-adjusted relief, re-adjusted saddle height (Height is currently maxed out)” So as you can see Mike adjusted the saddle height and maxed these out himself and it did not come that way from our shop, in fact, we had to give it a whole new set up and undo everything he did to it.
3. Robbing parts off customer guitars for NAMM, this is not even close to accurate. Occasionally when NAMM has come around we have been low on parts and used them to complete the NAMM builds in place of finishing a customer build – we do not pull parts off a guitar once they are on the guitar.
4. Customer Service and Attitude – like anything there are 2 sides to every story, having said that this story did not play out exactly as Mike Hess is making it sound and I know this because it is not often there is a major conflict like this and there were 4 others in the room when this happened and they remember how many times Mike Hess kept calling in to talk with Mike Jones that particular day. Now I am not defending Mike Jones and agree and wish things were handled differently in this situation and the other situations that were also mentioned in this thread. I will tell you I sat everyone down here and got everyone on the same page. We all agree things have gotten a little out of line at times and that is just because we are all very passionate about what we are doing – including you guys 

It really bums me out to read this type of experience and I can tell you, I am not ok with it and it is not acceptable – this will improve our customer service and make us even better. So thank you guys for calling us on it. Please also understand that we are humans here and obviously we make mistakes and can have an off days as well. I will tell you our quality of our guitars has never been better, the amount of love and time that goes into each one has never been higher. So please don’t let this thread spoil your thoughts on us and our commitment to building the best guitars. Also, don’t let these off angle photos get you thinking there is something wrong, we all know these camera phones have wide angle lenses and distort the image and can make parts that are closer appear different in perspective to further parts (overhead selfie/facebook angle can do to image distortion).

In closing you guys all know how to reach me, so if you want to talk about something feel free to shoot me a message https://www.facebook.com/officialjeffkiesel (keep in mind I answer all of my messages myself – and it can take me a few days, so you don’t need to send multiple messages in the same day asking if I got it). Thanks for your understanding here and helping us improve the experience for you guys.”

Jeff Kiesel
VP Kiesel Guitars


We will not be monitoring this post after this response, In the above message you can read Jeff’s response to this. If you guys need anything, I am here Mon-Fri 930-6pm PST, so feel free to reach out directly to me as well by phone at 858-GUITARS or email Ricardo@KieselGuitars.com

This is as unfortunate a response as I could ever have imagined coming from the VP of a company. If this were the response I gave, yeah, I wouldn't want to monitor the post afterwards either.