philb
New member
Kiss introduced me to rock, Ace is why I picked up the guitar and a Les Paul.
But this is petty and Gene and Paul are being assholes.
But this is petty and Gene and Paul are being assholes.
Bloodrock
Well-known member
Let all 6 of them play together. Just have Singer and Thayer wear the Eric Carr and Vinnie Vincent makeup! 
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paulyc
Well-known member
TrueTone500":3vy2pckv said:
+1 ! Ace is a better player than Paul any day !
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TrueTone500
Banned
New member
KISS wasn't my thing, but I understood what it was they were doing... KISS was a rock minstrel show! Alice Cooper likes to take credit as their inspiration, but I say it was Al Jolson. As a marketing scheme, the success is undeniable. Most aging rockers can only dream of having the kind of residual income that Gene and Paul enjoy today.
The bottom-line... If Gene and Paul were offered a ton of $ to play as the original line-up, this issue wouldn't exist. This could be nothing more than contrived marketing to bolster attention around the event. Like Lucifer himself, Gene knows how to play the masses! He doesn't give a shit what Eric and Tommy think about it, and why should he? Those guys are hired musicians who collect a paycheck to perform as the original cat and alien characters during live shows. Eric and Tommy would gladly step aside to see KISS get inducted as the original line-up... Who wouldn't?
The bottom-line... If Gene and Paul were offered a ton of $ to play as the original line-up, this issue wouldn't exist. This could be nothing more than contrived marketing to bolster attention around the event. Like Lucifer himself, Gene knows how to play the masses! He doesn't give a shit what Eric and Tommy think about it, and why should he? Those guys are hired musicians who collect a paycheck to perform as the original cat and alien characters during live shows. Eric and Tommy would gladly step aside to see KISS get inducted as the original line-up... Who wouldn't?
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paulyc
Well-known member
Well, I loved Kiss growing up, even after the make up with Eric Carr and Vinnie Vincent. The problem is that Gene and Paul have FUCKED over Ace and Peter (and Vinnie even) time and again...Peter said he would never play with them again (to be paid at least), maybe he would play for the Hall of Fame show...but I think that would be it. Peter said they screwed him out of almost a million dollars on tour merchandise...that's a lot of butt hurt.
ejecta
Active member
Wow! Big surprise!
No offense to people who were inspired by them but KISS has always been a joke to me. I'm 44 so I also grew up in the middle of the KISS era but I was never inspired to play or write music because of them. The only thing that I have any respect for when it comes to these guys is their hard work ethic and genius marketing. Musically for me and my tastes they are lame and I like all kinds of music from simple pop tunes to complicated styles music. I just can't for the life of me find anything musically or artistically inspiring about their music. But like I always say to each his own.
Over the years I've also come to see especially Gene and Paul as deplorable greedy assholes who think way too much of themselves. Ace has simply fucked his life up with drugs and booze. The only one I feel any sympathy for is Peter.
So IMHO... I couldn't give a fuck whether they play or not since it would be waste of time.
No offense to people who were inspired by them but KISS has always been a joke to me. I'm 44 so I also grew up in the middle of the KISS era but I was never inspired to play or write music because of them. The only thing that I have any respect for when it comes to these guys is their hard work ethic and genius marketing. Musically for me and my tastes they are lame and I like all kinds of music from simple pop tunes to complicated styles music. I just can't for the life of me find anything musically or artistically inspiring about their music. But like I always say to each his own.
Over the years I've also come to see especially Gene and Paul as deplorable greedy assholes who think way too much of themselves. Ace has simply fucked his life up with drugs and booze. The only one I feel any sympathy for is Peter.
So IMHO... I couldn't give a fuck whether they play or not since it would be waste of time.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
TrueTone500":pqfjdk09 said:
You sure about that? I love Ace but he already had to relearn all his old leads in the 90's when they first got back together so what makes you think that 15 years later he will be any better? They had to put him under contract, make sure he was sober, woodshed him for months before he could play simple $hit like Love gun. (and sound decent doing it) Maybe Ace is sober now, maybe he could pull it off, but I can see where Paul and Gene might not want to risk it.
Furthermore, I think it is personal. Those two money hungry whores just don't like Ace. They don't like what he stands for or the things he has said. Him and Gene have had some differences in the past over racial comments and anti semitic jokes Ace "supposedly" said so even if Ace could still bring it, I doubt they'd give that to the fans. I guess they feel they are big enough and respected enough not to do it.
So no, I'm not talking out of my ass, I am merely giving an opinion based on what I have noticed and read. I've listened to some of his live clips in the past few years... they are pretty shit. He's lost whatever he had from years of boozin and drugging. Gotta respect the guy but also have to be realistic where personal beefs and abilities are concerned. I doubt Ace would agree to any contracts or 4 hour long practice sessions for one show that consists of 2 or 3 songs.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
paulyc":29zoeozk said:TrueTone500":29zoeozk said:
+1 ! Ace is a better player than Paul any day !
Paul doesn't play much lead so what are we talking about, the 4 chords of rythm in each song? Nothing really to contest there. The real talent is probably Paul. Dude can still bring it into his 60's and was the best showman of the bunch anyway. Smoke bombs in a guitar are cool and all, but Paul had the swagger. No question about him and Gene being douches though!
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paulyc
Well-known member
I think Paul doesn't play lead at all really, at least Ace can do it (when he's sober at least)...I never got the whole Kiss bashing bandwagon anyway...so they're not Zep or VH...so what ?
crwnedblasphemy
Well-known member
Haven't really spoke about this, but I am a big Kiss fan(or shall say was). I have kiss stuff, old...
but I see both sides....To Gene and Paul, why would I wanna perform with Ace and Peter and give a sub par performance? and with all the legal turmoil over the years, who wants to surround themselves with people they genuinely don't care for.
But as far as the Hall of Fame, Singer and Thayer have no part in there.
I really don't care about Kiss anymore. Monster and Sonic Boom were horrible. Last good album was Revenge. So, pretty much since 93, they haven't put out any good music. THAT IS 20 YEARS! unacceptable to me.
Now, if they busted out Rock Bottom, or Anything for My Baby, I would love that! Original lineup of course. But I think Criss is too hurt. He sucks to be honest.
but I see both sides....To Gene and Paul, why would I wanna perform with Ace and Peter and give a sub par performance? and with all the legal turmoil over the years, who wants to surround themselves with people they genuinely don't care for.
But as far as the Hall of Fame, Singer and Thayer have no part in there.
I really don't care about Kiss anymore. Monster and Sonic Boom were horrible. Last good album was Revenge. So, pretty much since 93, they haven't put out any good music. THAT IS 20 YEARS! unacceptable to me.
Now, if they busted out Rock Bottom, or Anything for My Baby, I would love that! Original lineup of course. But I think Criss is too hurt. He sucks to be honest.
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paulyc
Well-known member
Peter is not the best drummer, I'll give you that. I've always wondered if Gene and Paul would have pulled all the shit they pulled had Eric Carr lived...or if they would have thrown him under the bus too, as they all profess to have liked him so much, was it all bull shit ???
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paulyc
Well-known member
And there were a few decent tunes on Psycho Circus...
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
The flip side is that Singer is a killer drummer in that gig and Thayer does an excellent vintage Ace!
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paulyc
Well-known member
I have less than zero respect for Thayer impersonating someone else...especially a boozed and drugged up Ace. I understand the need to make money and live in this world, but Jesus...
Eric Singer and Jake E Lee should make up and do Badlands again IMO...
Eric Singer and Jake E Lee should make up and do Badlands again IMO...
crwnedblasphemy
Well-known member
I remember when I heard Thayer had to teach Ace his guitar parts way back when they did the Reunion stuff. Kinda funny that someone else has to teach you your own parts.
Singer is good. Solid drummer. Just saying he hasn't contributed to anything Hall of Fame worthy in Kiss's writing process.
Kulick has. I would rather Kiss perform with Kulick and Singer. haha
Carr is missed...I remember his drum solo on Animalize tour. The guy was a monster.
Singer is good. Solid drummer. Just saying he hasn't contributed to anything Hall of Fame worthy in Kiss's writing process.
Kulick has. I would rather Kiss perform with Kulick and Singer. haha
Carr is missed...I remember his drum solo on Animalize tour. The guy was a monster.
ejecta
Active member
Badronald
New member
I'm trying to think of a reason why I would care about this and come to the conclusion that I don't.
I think it's pretty obvious the RRHOF is a pathetic joke and I haven't listened to Kiss for 25 years or so.
I loved the Alive albums as well as Love Gun, Hotter than Hell and Double Platinum. A few other things here and there, but they haven't put anything out worth listening to for decades.
Those ridiculous "reality" shows some of these guys do are silly and embarrassing. They completely strip away any credibility an artist may have left.
Anyway.....
I think it's pretty obvious the RRHOF is a pathetic joke and I haven't listened to Kiss for 25 years or so.
I loved the Alive albums as well as Love Gun, Hotter than Hell and Double Platinum. A few other things here and there, but they haven't put anything out worth listening to for decades.
Those ridiculous "reality" shows some of these guys do are silly and embarrassing. They completely strip away any credibility an artist may have left.
Anyway.....
skoora
Well-known member
There's so many things wrong with Kiss over the last 10 years that I have to fight to blank it out and not tarnish the beautiful feelings that only a man who respects other men can have about '74-'82.
ejecta
Active member
They should get these guys to play at the induction.
JerEvil
Well-known member
I'll pose a different view point here. KISS was on top of the world when Ace and Peter were personally tanking. They got through their bullshit well enough to do the Psycho Circus/Reunion stuff but there has still been a lot of bad blood on all sides. It is certainly easy to look at Ace and Peter and think "man those guys keep getting the shaft and Gene and Paul are dicks."
With that said, how many times do you reward bad decisions or choices? Gene and Paul treat KISS like a business, not a band of brothers. They have Thayer in there because he has worked with and around the band so long and he is STABLE!!! LOL! It's good for business and certainly has not hurt their ticket sales.
We all know KISS as a large part of our childhoods, rock & roll upbringings, etc. Alive! made me want to pick up a guitar for God's sake. At the end of the day though, those guys aren't buds and Gene and Paul have put in the hard work to keep KISS alive for 40 years. Like the decision or not, it is theirs to make.
With that said, how many times do you reward bad decisions or choices? Gene and Paul treat KISS like a business, not a band of brothers. They have Thayer in there because he has worked with and around the band so long and he is STABLE!!! LOL! It's good for business and certainly has not hurt their ticket sales.
We all know KISS as a large part of our childhoods, rock & roll upbringings, etc. Alive! made me want to pick up a guitar for God's sake. At the end of the day though, those guys aren't buds and Gene and Paul have put in the hard work to keep KISS alive for 40 years. Like the decision or not, it is theirs to make.