Les Paul Tuning Issues

[SandyRavage]

So I'm literally at wits end and wondering if anyone has tips...

Mid 2000s Les Paul Standard FGN Fujigen build.

Tone Pros Tune o Matic so it's locked solid
Tusq XL has been recut twice
Sperzel Locking Tuners
Recut Saddles

Using Ernie Ball and GHS in multiple gauges and same issues.

Been to three separate luthiers yet falls out within two seconds of playing which makes me want to throw it across the room.

Have zero issues with my ESP or other Gibson so can't be my heavy hands. They have identical setups.

Is there something I'm missing, something I overlooked? I do 90% of my own guitar work but now three failed setups into this guy and not eager to drop more dollars into the equation.

Any suggestions of So Cal guitar techs who are wizards with a les Paul and can explain what's going on here?

Sorry for the rant thanks in advance!

 

[SavageRiffer]

So I'm literally at wits end and wondering if anyone has tips...

Mid 2000s Les Paul Standard FGN Fujigen build.

Tone Pros Tune o Matic so it's locked solid
Tusq XL has been recut twice
Sperzel Locking Tuners
Recut Saddles

Using Ernie Ball and GHS in multiple gauges and same issues.

Been to three separate luthiers yet falls out within two seconds of playing which makes me want to throw it across the room.

Have zero issues with my ESP or other Gibson so can't be my heavy hands. They have identical setups.

Is there something I'm missing, something I overlooked? I do 90% of my own guitar work but now three failed setups into this guy and not eager to drop more dollars into the equation.

Any suggestions of So Cal guitar techs who are wizards with a les Paul and can explain what's going on here?

Sorry for the rant thanks in advance!

I'm not a tech, but have built a lot of guitars, so I've dealt with various tuning issues. All strings or certain strings? Is your nut filed correctly for your string gauge? Have you tried nut lube or pencil lead? Could be the tuners. How are you threading your strings through the tuners? Your tuner holes should be horizontally facing your strings with a little slack, then thread them straight through so there's not more winding than necessary. New strings need to be stretched a bit before they'll stay in tune, so if you're just getting it back from the shop with new strings, then you gotta work them in a bit.

It's possible that your tuners could be slipping. What you need to do is bend the strings behind the nut and see if they go out of tune, then bend them from the fretboard and see if they go back in tune. That will tell you if the strings are getting friction from the nut. If it's not the nut, then replace the tuners.

You said the saddles were recut. You mean the metal bridge saddles? Can you post some pics of your bridge and headstock?

 

[Steinmetzify]

Jerry Bizon in LA...dude owns Luxxtone.

What do you mean, LP Standard but Fujigen built? Not a Gibson I'm assuming?

Gonna go ahead and skip noob problems since you seem to be aware...maybe a hump in the neck that your techs aren't accounting for?

Who are your techs and what are you playing? Assuming again that you're not having them set up for a certain tuning and then you changing it later?

 

[Starman22]

I'm assuming you mean the offending strings are going flat?

Les Pauls all seem to want the strings pulled and stretched before playing to unstick the G and D string from the nut no matter how old the strings are. LP's change string tension just sitting all by themselves especially with temperature changes.

Thus pull the strings first (like they were new) before tuning, then tune from low E down to the small E. This should get you into playing mode and then once the guitar warms up from playing/body heat (goes flat) you need to minor tune then it should be good to go for a whole gig/session.

If you have it falling out of tune drastically even after this regimen the you have a string/tuner slipping or the nut is cut horribly wrong.

 

[Deanmachine]

Oddly I have a FGN neo-classic with the same problem the first thing I did was change the tuners that helped but it's back at tech with a new nut I'll let you know if it gets straightened out

 

[Ventura]

Depends on the tuners, some have crappy holds.

Pencil graphite on the nut slots helps a lot.

Pre-tensioned strings. Get rough with it - see if it makes a pinging noise at the headstock, if it does, it's an incongruent tension between the nut and the tuners, or the tail piece and the TOM. If you yank the strings and they go out of tune without pinging and not due to the fact you just yanked on them, it's the gears in the tuners machination.

 

[SandyRavage]

Checked behind the nut and sure enough 4 of the 6 Tuners are slipping... subtlety but like the tuning mechanism itself is fucked up... first guitar in a while with sperzels so maybe time for an upgrade.... any suggestions?

 

[SavageRiffer]

Checked behind the nut and sure enough 4 of the 6 Tuners are slipping... subtlety but like the tuning mechanism itself is fucked up... first guitar in a while with sperzels so maybe time for an upgrade.... any suggestions?

Get some Gotoh locking tuners. They have a good ratio and don't slip.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

Lube yer Nutts ...

 

[errrrrl]

Lube yer Nutts ...

This alone will improve anyone's quality of life

 

[Steinmetzify]

Checked behind the nut and sure enough 4 of the 6 Tuners are slipping... subtlety but like the tuning mechanism itself is fucked up... first guitar in a while with sperzels so maybe time for an upgrade.... any suggestions?

Yeah I'd hit up Sperzel and explain the problem...I have Sperzels on my #1 LP and no tuning issues as far as they go. It's supposed to be a stopgap measure; hit em up and tell em you want $ back or new tuners. Fuck all that.

 

[sg guy]

Lube yer Nutts ...

This alone will improve anyone's quality of life

-I prefer to have a PROFESSIONAL lube my nuts, in my line of work, a failed nut is a disaster!!! I just make a Lil get away to Reno,.... POOF!! Nut/s lubed by a state certified Pro, I leave happy & confident,..... What's piece of mind knowing THERE WILL BE NO NUT FAILURE!! worth?.... I sleep like a baby

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

This saved my life with my Les Paul
(Your stretching the hell out of the strings i assume after putting new ones on?)

I prefer Bone nuts but try this also in the slots, it will help

 

[HellraiserJohnny]

This saved my life with my Les Paul
(Your stretching the hell out of the strings i assume after putting new ones on?)

I prefer Bone nuts but try this also in the slots, it will help

This is very close to what I use. . . . I wind "Over and Under" on my 3+3 peg heads. Wind the peg until the peg hole is in line with the tuning key. then I pull the string once around covering both sides of the peg hole, while holding the string taught, slip the string through the hole from the tuning key side going over the string and under the string on the other side then pull 90 degrees away from the tail stop. Hold everything tight as you wind up the slack. This locks the string around the peg using it's own tension. Once the string has some tension on it, I fold the string back on itself and crimp it with pliers. This prevents the wrap from slipping on wound strings and will stop the plain strings from backing out of the peg should it actually slip (but I never had this happen).

If you have a Floyd or other tremolo that required you to cut off the ball end, be sure and flatten the wrap (I use a small brass hammer) on your wound strings just above the end wrap (above the ball end) to prevent the wrap from slipping before you cut off the ball end. Once your locked up this makes the stings break in easier and prevents slipping while pre-stretching.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

There's something to be said about a good Bone Nutt ...

 

[SpiderWars]

I would make note of exactly how it falls out of tune. Which strings go out, sharp or flat, etc. Or you can test it by tuning up, then bend every string a full step. Check the tuning. Now pull each string like a really widebend and quickly release it. This will cause the string to sort 'pop' back through the nut if it went flat when you bent it. Check the tuning again. It might even go sharp. When I tune I'm constantly stretching the strings and then popping them back. I've had guitars that were so bad a full step bend (upward) on the third string would make the fourth string go flat just from that little bit of movement.

Also, ime guitars that have really sweet tuning can go out a little and still sound decent. Guitars that do not have sweet tuning sound sour as fuck as soon as they go out. Sometimes a slight tuning adjustment can help (see the EVH tuning cents thread for ideas on that) but that can be a band-aid for a poorly setup guitar.

EDIT: Nice Orville Chester.

 

[sg guy]

-had an old SG, beat up pretty good, Kluson pearls, typical G-String, the problem child, along with the D &-(high E)-but not as bad, then I started noticing that it was qclose to being proportional to the G-(if there was a big humidity or temp change the G would be out more than usual, as well as the D & E-(high)-so I dug around in the guitar junk, found one of those bars that hold the strings down after the nut & before the tuner's-(like string tree's)-poof!! worked great!! then I ditched the Kluson tuner's put some GROVER locking tuner's, I picked um cuz they were the heaviest locking tuner's I could find, -Shazam!- sometimes i went days before I had to tune it, now there's 3 things I always do when I buy a guitar, #1-pup/s #2-Grover locker's, #3-eliminate everything from the input jack to the volume pot-(pot gets changed some times/depends)-to the pup-(never use phase or coil split)-

-I've noticed those Gibson's with auto-tune-(I don't understand the hate, they work good!)-Gibson got so much shit about them, that some distributors would remove them, leaving that brass but, it looks kinda like a "U" well they stay in tune great! I've been noticing when I play one, that there in tune! at GUITAR CENTER!!! I know!!! Crazy ain't it!

 

[RedB4Black]

This saved my life with my Les Paul
(Your stretching the hell out of the strings i assume after putting new ones on?)

I prefer Bone nuts but try this also in the slots, it will help

The Nut Sauce works great!

 

[Badronald]

You want your Gibson to stay in tune!?
How cute.

 

[messenger]

Tuning's for pussies