Help: Standard C# Tuning String Issue (dull sounding 3rd String)

Anxiety Serum

Anxiety Serum

Well-known member
Just had one of my Les Pauls setup for C# standard tuning (Billy Howerdel - A Perfect Circle - tuning).

Got the guitar back and the 3rd string (G-String...now the E-string but less fun to say) sounds weak (open or on any fret). Like no life to it, almost likes its half palm muted or like playing a kids toy guitar with plastic strings....it plucks the note but sounds bland as hell. No sustain or harmonic richness. Other strings are fine and the intonation is good.

Luthier said this is common with higher string gage and dropped tunings especially on the G string. I asked if dropping to a lighter guage G-String like Howerdel does would help. He said potentially, but recommended a 22p instead of the 20p due to potential buzzing from the lower neck tension. Then I noticed Billy drops the G string but goes up on string 1 and 2 (maybe to compensate for what my luthier mentioned???).

Anyone familiar with my issue? Have recommendations?

I've got Ernie Ball 56-12s on now so :
56, 44, 32, 24p, 16, 12
Howerdel runs:
56, 44, 32, 20p, 17, 13
 
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My old band used to tune low to high
C# G# C# F# G# C# and I used 12-52 with a wound 3rd (24 ga).
I didn’t notice any issues.
They were the D’Adarrio jazz light set
52 42 32 24w 16 12

Does it sound dead with fretted notes or just open?
 
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Experienced the same issue. I found that I could not get a descent tone from the G string unless it was on a plain 20 gauge or less. Too me it sounded like there was not enough tension to make the plain string sing. I was gonna try a wound G but opted for a different set all together.

This Stringjoy tension calculator helped me dial in the right strings and tension for me in every tuning.
https://tension.stringjoy.com/
 
tonesfoyobones said:
Experienced the same issue. I found that I could not get a descent tone from the G string unless it was on a plain 20 gauge or less. Too me it sounded like there was not enough tension to make the plain string sing. I was gonna try a wound G but opted for a different set all together.

This Stringjoy tension calculator helped me dial in the right strings and tension for me in every tuning.
https://tension.stringjoy.com/
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Thanks. Glad to know its not just me or the guitar.

But wouldn't dropping to 20p from 24p give less tension? You mention not "enough" tension.
I'm on Stringjoy now, been playing with it for a while. But not sure what to target?
What set did you go with and what tuning were you in?
 
I went with D'Addario NYXL's 11-56 in C standard on 25.5 scale. High strings have great note definition and bloom. Not commonly sought after attributes in lower tuning but the guitars sounds so much more alive and 3-D like.
With the Gibson 24.75 scale in C# standard I went with NYXL's 12-54's. It's a 106.9lbs and it felt nice to me. A little chewy and great for grooving. It you want tighter feel especially on those triplets try to find a set that bumps up the lbs. I did find that I preferred all tensions levels between 105 to 117 max regardless of tuning or scale length.
 
Anxiety Serum said:
Thanks. Glad to know its not just me or the guitar.

But wouldn't dropping to 20p from 24p give less tension? You mention not "enough" tension.
Click to expand...
Yes you are correct. The higher tension seemed dull and lifeless like it was lacking tension but I guess it was too much tension for the scale. ?? Eitherway I found that 20 is my max on the G.
 
Yeah, the wound string can help… always feels a bit funky to me though. Unfortunately with the les Paul being a shorter scale, gotta do what you gotta do if that’s what you want to play. I always stick with a super strat body 25.5 scale, as it doesn’t seem to have issues all the way to c standard.
 
tonesfoyobones said:
Yes you are correct. The higher tension seemed dull and lifeless like it was lacking tension but I guess it was too much tension for the scale. ?? Eitherway I found that 20 is my max on the G.
Click to expand...
Thinking about it, too much tension just might be spot on. Its so tight it can't vibrate enough to sustain. Thuds out. That's exactly what it feels like.

Below is my current setup. Stringjoy says to keep plain string similarly balanced and wound strings balanced together as well. Look at that jump in tension (24lbs) when it needs to be closer to 17 on the first 2 strings. This is 7.1lb apart when 1-2lbs is what you want. No wonder this sounds bad. Way too much tension in the Ernie Ball set.


Below is the EBs followed by changing out that 24p to a 20p and then Howerdels string choices. The middle gets it most balanced within 0.3 lbs.




1678393650610.png



1678394113974.png


1678394819272.png
 
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Exactly. That calculator helped me see what I was feeling and hearing but couldn't figure out. That calculator has helped me tremendously! It took the guessing game out of wonder which strings for which tuning on which scale.
 
tonesfoyobones said:
Exactly. That calculator helped me see what I was feeling and hearing but couldn't figure out. That calculator has helped me tremendously!
Click to expand...
Added the Howerdel strings to my post. Gets the overall tension higher and more like my 52-10 but has 3.2 lb spread between the 1 and 3 string. Which is a touch more than the 1-2 Stringjoy suggests.

Think I'll try the 20p and and see how things go from there.
 
Anxiety Serum said:
It's not a little loose?

Are they Gibson scale?
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@Anxiety Serum Both Gibson and Fender scale.

It is a little loose, but the tension is about where I like it. I used to think that thicker strings were always better until I played around with some .09s and found I liked the sound and feel a lot better than playing with thicker, tighter strings.

This might not be the case for everyone, but it works for me. I think the G is a .17, unwound.
 
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