MAK4 Glass Update - INSTALLED!!

[Ventura]

For those interested, I'll be making 4 clips of this preamp - simple clips - as is with all EQ's set at noon. After that, I'll be taking some clips, same EQ, same mic position, same everything, with a variety of different preamp glass in the Mak4. I posted/touched on this in a different thread, and there was some serious interest, so I'm firing this thread up for those who'd like to know.

For the record, in the Mak4, the preamp tube layout is:
V1 - global in
V2 - Gain for Dorado and Plex
V3 - CLEAN gain and tone
V4 - DIRT gain and tone
V5 - Tone for Dorado and Plex
V6 - global out

I've got a variety of new glass - Gold Lions, TADs, Preferred Series 7025Ss, Tung Sols, etc.

V.

PS - Sunday through Tuesday should be the recording time for this

 

[glip22]

 

[roadifier]

 

[philnz]

 

[MichaelG]

Awesome... thanks Mo/V!

 

[threadkiller]

Sounds like a great shoot out. I got my mak4 about 2 weeks ago. I had a problem with the clean channel going out. Thought it was the V3 tube to start with but it turned out not to be. Andrew was absolutely awesome though. I sent it back at his expense. He fixed it in one day and sent it right back to me. I just got it back yesterday. Turns out it was a bad ribbon cable connector. I could tell he felt bad about it but honestly shit happens and much props to him for how he handled it. I'm going to try to shoot some stuff with my camcorder since I'm not set up to record here. I'll post it if it sounds decent with my crappy camcorder mic.

 

[Ventura]

Sounds like a great shoot out. I got my mak4 about 2 weeks ago. I had a problem with the clean channel going out. Thought it was the V3 tube to start with but it turned out not to be. Andrew was absolutely awesome though. I sent it back at his expense. He fixed it in one day and sent it right back to me. I just got it back yesterday. Turns out it was a bad ribbon cable connector. I could tell he felt bad about it but honestly shit happens and much props to him for how he handled it. I'm going to try to shoot some stuff with my camcorder since I'm not set up to record here. I'll post it if it sounds decent with my crappy camcorder mic.

Andrew's a very stand up guy. A lot of people may read these threads and wonder "gee, sounds as though QC is lacking", but the dealio is, he's one guy, he's created a product that's hugely in demand IN ADDITION to his other stand alone amps, and man, like he says, he's slammed - and just trying to stay on top of the orders and people's mods, wants, wishes, etc. I think the $1K for a preamp that sounds THIS killer is insane. AND it's quiet AND it's got gobs of bass. The only reason I am changing up the glass is to personalize it because, honestly, I see this as being my sound from here on in. Sure, I'll continue to play and love Diezels and Bogners, but this little 'big' box, has got what I'm looking for it in.

Straight up, it sounds killer. I'm just making it sound Mo Killer. Starting with a Jan Philips 5751 in the clean slot, and a Gold Lion ECC83 as the V1 position. I don't wanna spend all my free time glass in/glass out. I'm going to do a dry record; swap out the tubes as per my original hypothesis; plug in and re-record. If it's better - it'll stay that way. If it requires a different flavor - more tweaking. But my guess is, the way I've already pre-mapped the glass to be installed, it'll be tits.

But the clips will come - and remember, neutral EQ, so don't expect perfection in the sounds, I'm doing it strictly from a "can you hear the difference THIS makes??" perspective.

Peace,
Mojo

 

[nighttrain69]

enjoy the ride mo

 

[Ventura]

enjoy the ride mo

Damn straight... Just kinda wanna get it right sooner than later as I'm not cool with dangling short patch cables and an opened up preamp and a poweramp sitting there chugging along while I fuss and muss with glass... It's all nice and racked up right now, cables all cinched, noice and toight - toight like a toiger.

The clips will be in Sunday night, Monday day...

Peace Y'all,
Mojo

 

[Bevosss]

Sounds like a great shoot out. I got my mak4 about 2 weeks ago. I had a problem with the clean channel going out. Thought it was the V3 tube to start with but it turned out not to be. Andrew was absolutely awesome though. I sent it back at his expense. He fixed it in one day and sent it right back to me. I just got it back yesterday. Turns out it was a bad ribbon cable connector. I could tell he felt bad about it but honestly shit happens and much props to him for how he handled it.

Oh crap, glad that wasn't me, it's a long way back from Oz! Actually your earlier post helped me, as mine turned up without any channels working...opened her up and it was the V6 tube out, replaced her with a spare tube Andrew had thrown in, and it was up and running! That can happen to any amp I imagine when transporting long distance, and besides that, my MAK4 is fine and sounding awesome! I really think I've found my hi-gain Nirvana with this beauty!

Oh yeah, the guts just look so solid inside...overbuilding is Andrew's middle name!

V4 - DIRT gain and tone

By which you mean Crunch channel right?

Really looking forward to this Mo! I'm keen to hear the results, the Crunch and Makoplex are just awesome... I thought I'd be using the Dorado for crunch rhythm, but the actual Crunch with gain dimed is perfect for me, this ain't no filler channel! The Dorado comes in handy for those hardcore bottom string chord and melody riffs though, but mostly it's got way more gain than I need.. I am also loving the Makoplex for leads and chimier chords, it's got a beautiful swell/bloom to the note, and it sings.

Btw, if you can record a D.I. track and then reamp passes through the different tubes, that would eliminate playing differences...any way you compare will be helpful though, thanks a bunch for testing this shit out man! You are a legend.

 

[Ventura]

V4 - DIRT gain and tone

By which you mean Crunch channel right?

Really looking forward to this Mo! I'm keen to hear the results, the Crunch and Makoplex are just awesome... I thought I'd be using the Dorado for crunch rhythm, but the actual Crunch with gain dimed is perfect for me, this ain't no filler channel! The Dorado comes in handy for those hardcore bottom string chord and melody riffs though, but mostly it's got way more gain than I need.. I am also loving the Makoplex for leads and chimier chords, it's got a beautiful swell/bloom to the note, and it sings.

Btw, if you can record a D.I. track and then reamp passes through the different tubes, that would eliminate playing differences...any way you compare will be helpful though, thanks a bunch for testing this shit out man! You are a legend.

Yes, dirt equals CRUNCH, and you're damn straight!! That channel is THE sleeper channel of this preamp!! I've been blown away by the balance and tone from that channel alone. LOVE the Mako channel, and with the Dorado EQ'd right, it's pure vicious. Clean will come around, but I don't play clean a lot, when I do, I need shimmer and chime, and diamond clarity - hence the Jan Philips

The recording method is going to be Zoom H4n dead centre with 90 degree XY mic pattern, seems to sound the best (odd thing for me as I've never recorded dead on the dust cap, but the mics are offset on the handset, so it's bang on the sweetspot). I'll set up the H4n, test it to make sure it's right, then the cabinet and recorder remain static. Only the tubes will change

Fryette 2/90/2 poweramp, Fryette 4x12 P50E loaded Deliverance cab.

It'll be good enough to get the differences across. On a side note, I'm pretty impressed with the H4n.

Peace
V./Mo

 

[Bevosss]

Yes, dirt equals CRUNCH, and you're damn straight!! That channel is THE sleeper channel of this preamp!! I've been blown away by the balance and tone from that channel alone.

It's got a heap of great sounding mids I find, I'm even scooping them on CH2 and it's still got more mids than the Dorado set flat...same fast attack, but more juicier/fatter or something...reminds me a LOT of Adam Jones sound to be honest, hugely percussive. Is this the VH4 Ch3 'twin' quality you were talking about earlier? It also sounds a way better mix with the P-bass to my ear than the Herbert, there's good separation there, it cuts just right without any harshness.

Just curious Mo, how are you setting your gain and eq for your dirty channels?

 

[Ventura]

Yes, dirt equals CRUNCH, and you're damn straight!! That channel is THE sleeper channel of this preamp!! I've been blown away by the balance and tone from that channel alone.

It's got a heap of great sounding mids I find, I'm even scooping them on CH2 and it's still got more mids than the Dorado set flat...same fast attack, but more juicier/fatter or something...reminds me a LOT of Adam Jones sound to be honest, hugely percussive. Is this the VH4 Ch3 'twin' quality you were talking about earlier? It also sounds a way better mix with the P-bass to my ear than the Herbert, there's good separation there, it cuts just right without any harshness.

Just curious Mo, how are you setting your gain and eq for your dirty channels?

I'll speak more about my EQ on the weekend, as there's a lot to talk about... But to answer your question, YES!!!! This is THE CHANNEL I was talking about when I said there's a definite apparent and obvious similarity to the JonezTonez of the V's Channel 3...!! Now, it's not a deadringer for the Diezel's Ch.3, but it's got a lot of that weird haunting rubbery tone that Ch.3 has (can't explain it in words, you know what I'm talking about). But that's what GOT ME, I was like "this has GOT to be similar to Ch.3, I'm not going nuts!!", so I did a really Q and D recording, to compare the two... Thing is though, there's more, it's got a LOT of Ch.3 to it, but it's also got that middy growling honk of Adam's secondary sounds too - whether it be mesa or marshall or whatever.

Ya, it's there - and it's very very obvious.

Definitely NOT a filler channel.

Anyway, signing off, expect the clips to come Monday sometime as I'll be playing most of Sunday night

Mo

PS - Bevoss, what's your power stage with the Mak4 again?? Cabinet??

 

[Bevosss]

PS - Bevoss, what's your power stage with the Mak4 again?? Cabinet??

Diezel Herbert power amp with Ruby EL-34Bs, Mesa Recto O/S Cab with stock V30s...I have a quartet of SED 6550s to put in the Herbert (keeping 2 EL34s in there), but yeah, quite enjoying the tone as is for now... it's fat, grindy and cutting, and nowhere near saturation. Looking forward to even more percussive tones with the 6550s though! Hopefully I won't lose too much tone from the Makoplex in the process.

I may get the Mako power amp when he releases it finally, I have a feeling it'll be awesome...also, I've never used the Recto cab stereo yet, sounds like fun!

Probably won't be changing cabs either as I like it, there's nowhere to try Freyette's to compare round here, festivals only have Rectos at best anyway...plus they've worked on so many proven recordings. I'd need some solid proof in front of me it would improve recording, AND some cash, which I'm out of for now.

 

[threadkiller]

I like the makoplex channel overall the best but I really haven't had a ton of time to spend with the unit as a whole yet. I've always been a marshall/plexi guy though and through an el34 power section it sounds incredible. But yes, the crunch channel is probably the best kept secret in this unit. In fact, in my band context, I dare say this is where I'll spend 75% of my time playing 70's through 90's rock with a few modern songs thrown in and even some country. This channel just does so much so well. I suspect the Dorado channel is best with KT88's or 6l6's. It has its own thing going but I would equate it more to a mesa sound than a marshall. I think I've found my preamp. It will be interesteing to see how I feel in 6 mo when the honeymoon wears off but I've got feeling this thing is here to stay.

I haven't made it to band practice with this yet. Have either of you used it in a band context yet? I am sometimes amazed at how good something sounds at the house or recording solo, but then turns to mush or sounds thin in the band setting. This will really tell the tell for me. I'm approaching this from the live sound/band context. Most of the experience out there with this unit sounds like it is from the recording standpoint. I will have it practice next weekend so I'll report back my .02. Usually requires some different eq'ing. Also, at risk of repeating myself, I really like having knobs, no digital menu's or programming and saving patches.

 

[Ventura]

No gig setting yet, however, studio session - decent volume (read: thumpin') - all channels cut through NO problemo. The Dorado, pending on its EQ, needed a little tweaking, you can't run that thing past noon on the gain without sacrificing some cut, it needs mids, and the presence off the poweramp to shine in band contexts. This is why I bought the Fryette poweramp - depth and presence - now that Dorado channel is a razor.

BUT!!! Plex is for me, wicked. Crunch, crazy wicked.

Tubes and playing startin' tomorrow - I'm f'n stoked
V.

 

[Bevosss]

@TK: Just writing/recording and jamming with my bass player, with sometime V-drums, but yeah def not at gig volumes, quite loud though, and I run the head with an attenuator so I can goose the power tubes up a little bit...I have my Herbert still set up as it was when gigging, it's well tested so I basically use that as my template check when setting up channels on the MAK4, and match the volumes. I mean I'm sure there will be some slight eq and gain adjustments when it's a full rehearsal/gig, but the way it's separating from the bass now, I'm confident I'll be close or well in the ballpark at least.

 

[Ventura]

Bloody tortuous... I won't feel like doing THAT again any time soon

ANYWAY, results are in - and yes - clips to follow... Gimme some time to get 4 hours of wanking and noodling and testing into some sensible format. It'll come, hopefully tomorrow, we'll see

So, just a heads up, you all know I've been playing around with the Ultra a fair bit and really digging it, right?? Well, that's great - but I sure enjoyed playing around with my Mak4 tonight, and I have to say, the tonal results I've managed with this cocktail are, to my ears, abso-f*ckin-lutely incredible.

Getting here took some time, here she goes:

V1 - no brainer, plunked the Gold Lion ECC83/B759 into this global position as this is the primo spot for the rest of the set up. I didn't even try anything else, just went with the money tube right off the bat. With that tube alone, there was a totally noticeable difference to the preamp - pick sensitivity and clarity in all 4 channels was improved. But the rest of the JJ's were yanked regardless.
V2 - GAIN for Dorado and Makoplex - TAD7025S. Was a tight race between it and the Tung Sol 12AX7, but the Tung Sol was too much in this spot, the TAD warmed up the gain, and really made it rich, only a weeeeeeeeeeee bit was taken off the top, not that that mattered as all 3 non-clean channels have gobs of gain to spare. This tube was best to my ears.
V3 - GAIN & TONE for Clean - no brainer, the JAN Philips 5751 went in and through all the testing, stayed put. That is a beautiful tube folks!! You want PRISTINE clean?? Use this glass!!
V4 - GAIN & TONE for Crunch - surprise surprise, went through 3 different tubes before realizing this channel is probably THE money channel on the whole amp. No kidding, this channel deserves the best, and it sounded the best with another $50 tube (Gold Lion ECC83/B759) in its socket. Because this socket does both gain and tone on this incredible sleeper channel, this channel has really, really come to life - even moreso than before.
V5 - TONE for Dorado and Makoplex - Tung Sol 12AX7. Yep. Not the best in the gain section, but tonewise?? Incredible warmth and clarity (and I went through 4 tubes in this spot to test).
V6 - Global Out - wanted a well balance, noise free, perfect buffer. Went with the Preferred Series 7025 (all these tubes are from thetubestore.com)

So, the channels:

CLEAN: Spectacular, uber loud and clear, shimmering (finally!! I can say that for real!!) and so pristine - super percussive and tons of headroom, the perfect "clean" and man, this is with the EQ all at noon, absolute butter (might end up playing clean a little more nowadays!!).
CRUNCH: Fawgettabowditt... This channel. This channel is... Kinda hard to explain, but this is NOT just a crunch channel. Alright, it's got tons of range now, sounds anywhere from loose and vintage to tight and - yes - kinda channel 3'ish of the VH4 with some careful EQ'ing, not the same, but the similarities remain. Who cares, this channel's got its own thing going on...!! Terrific break up; in yer face crunch; awesome tex; wicked punchy solo notes; loud; and just so tasty. I could go on for a while, but there it is.
MAKOPLEX: All the demos of almost all the modded Marshalls, welcome here... I hear so many 'variations' of 'plexi' without the tin can twang to it. Mid rich, this channel cuts like mad. Loud and aggressive and so full - really, really great channel for everything, and with the gain up - hard cutting to boot. Gotta play it to believe it.
DORADO: Was a bit over-the-top before, now it's tamed just a hair, but fuller, and still retains this metallic texture to it, without sounding hollow. I can get the gain up to 3 o'clock and it still holds tight without getting fizzy, blurry or smeared... Super thick, HARD, and gobs of gain. Soaking wet with uber metal tone. Love it!!

There it is folks!! If you're wondering WHY I changed tubes, it's cause I knew this preamp had even more magic in it than came already stock with it. There's barely any hiss now too - not that this was a problem before, I just noticed as soon as I plunked the GL-ECC into the V1 position, things were really really quiet (thought I had my guitar's pick up selector to a pup that was turned right down, but it wasn't - was on the bridge pup, dimed). I found when playing the Mak4 loaded with the stock JJ's it was killer - but when the gain got up there, and the volume got up there, it started getting kinda weird...just, I dunno, lacked definition. "Smeared", if that makes ANY sense. But still good, I was just splitting hairs. The stock Mak4 made me do an about face to my other big rigs, and now, with the personalized flavor coming out of it - it's really totally mine.

Long read, but there you have it. Clips to follow tomorrow/Tuesday, and remember, they're choppy and abrupt and recorded for purpose only. I swapped out 4 of the 6 positions with 4 different types of glass - tested - and went back to the bench. I was getting more or less DONE with it by the halfway mark, but what's in there now - KILLS!! I also took a break before totally making my mind up, phoned some cats, chilled, made dinner, and came back with some fresh ears - yep - it's my magic cocktail 100%

Andrew - if you're reading this - THANK YOU!!! Build quality is bomber and man, those pre sockets are almost weld-tight

Peace,
V./Mo

PS - if anyone wants 6 fresh JJ ECC83S preamp tubes, PM me.

 

[philnz]

Wow, so cool of you to do this

How much was the cost of the new glass?

 

[Bevosss]

Cool Mo, thanks heaps also! Gonna have to definitely pick up some Gold Lions and Jans to start with myself...nice work!

Hey, did you see that comment in the other thread that the TAD and Preferred series were just Chinese tubes rebranded? That's apparently what Doug's Tubes told him anyhoot.

Build quality is bomber and man, those pre sockets are almost weld-tight

Haha, you know I thought Andrew had left some solder in there, because the tube I had to change, it's socket was real tight too...I was a bit worried I'd break it when trying to get it all the way in again.