Marshall 1960 "Vintage" cabs Part 2

[Dallas Marlow]

I like "Parallel @ the jack" or "Series @ the jack."

Series/parallel means "two series pairs in parallel."

Parallel/Series is "two parallel pairs in series."

use the "@ the jack" to avoid confusion.

Haha well WHATEVER it is, I wired mine up to the diagram in the other thread and it kicks ass. By the way the wire I got, is radio shack like super speaker wire or something, maybe mega? I don't recall the name but it's square 14awg braided, a bitch to work with but good stuff and 50 feet of it (which is really 100 feet for our purposes since its wired in a pair and you split it down the middle) was like $25 or something, not to bad!

Im not really familiar with the debate but it seems clearly defined to me.

I see it this way;

If you look at the diagram on the left it is labeled Parallel/Series. when I look at the diagram I see two pairs of speakers in parallel first then those pairs wired in series.

When looking at the diagram on the right labeled series/Parallel I see two sets of speakers wired in series first then those pairs wired parallel.

A far as the diagrams and their names I believe it is correct.

The only real question I have now is which one of these is the one you prefer?

Haha in the previous thread there was a link to a thread on another forum where it was like 10 pages of confusion on which way to go. But according to the way your diagrams are labeled the Parallel/Series is the VAST improvement IMO. According to the bit of research I did on the other threads, that is how the OLD marshall cabs used to be wired, and apparently how the bogner currently does it. It makes everything more organic, I noticed more sustain, easier playability, more harmonic content, less ice pick from BOTH cabs I did it to and I got more low end out of the deal. Everything in general is just richer sounding much improvement!

My ONE caveat to this is that I did replace the original marshall speaker wire in my 1960BHW cab with the Mega wire I linked up top, so I don't know how much effect that even played considering the fact that the stuff was soldered in already, it was a definite improvement to me!

Does this help man?

Dallas

absolutely, thanks! ill have to try this in my next 4x12

Your welcome man, glad I could help out!

 

[JakeAC5253]

I like "Parallel @ the jack" or "Series @ the jack."

Series/parallel means "two series pairs in parallel."

Parallel/Series is "two parallel pairs in series."

use the "@ the jack" to avoid confusion.

But if it's series at the jack, then Series/parallel would be two parallel pairs in series... etcetc your own logic contradicts you.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

I like "Parallel @ the jack" or "Series @ the jack."

Series/parallel means "two series pairs in parallel."

Parallel/Series is "two parallel pairs in series."

use the "@ the jack" to avoid confusion.

But if it's series at the jack, then Series/parallel would be two parallel pairs in series... etcetc your own logic contradicts you.

hahah this is exactly why the other thread got to 10 pages of silly confusion!

 

[JakeAC5253]

I like "Parallel @ the jack" or "Series @ the jack."

Series/parallel means "two series pairs in parallel."

Parallel/Series is "two parallel pairs in series."

use the "@ the jack" to avoid confusion.

But if it's series at the jack, then Series/parallel would be two parallel pairs in series... etcetc your own logic contradicts you.

hahah this is exactly why the other thread got to 10 pages of silly confusion!

This thread has REALLY got me thinking. You said you now have it wired Series/Parallel, with parallel at the jack, like a Mesa cab, which intrigued me. My Recto cab has a mono input and two stereo inputs with 8 Ohm speakers. I have heard it is wired Series/Parallel. The two stereo inputs only use one side of the cab and the jacks are 4 Ohm, the mono input uses all speakers and is 8 Ohm. Which would mean that each side is wired in parallel and both sides wired in series. Which contradicts everything (most anyway) of what is being discussed here. My head hurts

 

[Dallas Marlow]

I like "Parallel @ the jack" or "Series @ the jack."

Series/parallel means "two series pairs in parallel."

Parallel/Series is "two parallel pairs in series."

use the "@ the jack" to avoid confusion.

But if it's series at the jack, then Series/parallel would be two parallel pairs in series... etcetc your own logic contradicts you.

hahah this is exactly why the other thread got to 10 pages of silly confusion!

This thread has REALLY got me thinking. You said you now have it wired Series/Parallel, with parallel at the jack, like a Mesa cab, which intrigued me. My Recto cab has a mono input and two stereo inputs with 8 Ohm speakers. I have heard it is wired Series/Parallel. The two stereo inputs only use one side of the cab and the jacks are 4 Ohm, the mono input uses all speakers and is 8 Ohm. Which would mean that each side is wired in parallel and both sides wired in series. Which contradicts everything (most anyway) of what is being discussed here. My head hurts

Haha I know... well from what I understand the reason amp companies (cab companies whatever haha) do that is so that they can sell their cabs to fit more amp heads, with mesa's you get what you get, but with Marshalls they can work with 4/16 or 8ohm stereo so it does make sense to a degree, but IMHO not at ALL for the 1960BHW cab where it has ONE jack and no options.

Here is the diagram that I followed which is speakers in Series then Paralleled at the jack. You can also apparently wired it like they used to with the really old cabs where instead of two of the wires going to the jack they are just hooked up at the bottom speaker which is electrically the same, however; I don't know, something didn't seem as good about that to me as wiring both directly to the jack?

 

[JakeAC5253]

The more I read and research, the more I come to the conclusion that Series/Parallel might just be a catch-all phrase that means that there is a switch and a switchback. That's the most important part of the equation because it means the cabs Ohms load is the same as the speakers impedance. There are just two ways of going about it, whether you go parallel or series first is up to you and the sound you are going for. I'm just not so sure that there is one globalized definition of Series/Parallel vs. Parallel/Series.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

The more I read and research, the more I come to the conclusion that Series/Parallel might just be a catch-all phrase that means that there is a switch and a switchback. That's the most important part of the equation because it means the cabs Ohms load is the same as the speakers impedance. There are just two ways of going about it, whether you go parallel or series first is up to you and the sound you are going for. I'm just not so sure that there is one globalized definition of Series/Parallel vs. Parallel/Series.

Haha, well that's what some people are saying because you can either be going from the jack at series, or the jack at parallel or thinking of the speakers and going from them to the jack and thinking they are also series or parallel... lol

 

[moltenmetalburn]

The more I read and research, the more I come to the conclusion that Series/Parallel might just be a catch-all phrase that means that there is a switch and a switchback. That's the most important part of the equation because it means the cabs Ohms load is the same as the speakers impedance. There are just two ways of going about it, whether you go parallel or series first is up to you and the sound you are going for. I'm just not so sure that there is one globalized definition of Series/Parallel vs. Parallel/Series.

I don't get the confusion at all, it is very simple:

Parallel/Series:

two pairs of speakers in parallel first then those pairs wired in series.

Series/Parallel:

two pairs of speakers wired in series first then those pairs wired parallel.

 

[JakeAC5253]

I don't get the confusion at all, it is very simple:

Parallel/Series:

two pairs of speakers in parallel first then those pairs wired in series.

Series/Parallel:

two pairs of speakers wired in series first then those pairs wired parallel.

The manual that came with my Mesa cab states that it is wired Series/Parallel and it's two sets of paralleled speakers wired in series. Searching the internet also turns up a few well known sources that cite the same thing. One being a post from the Boogieboards and another from a different forum says the same thing. It's not that it's a terribly hard idea to comprehend, it just seems that not everyone speaks the same lingo when referring to similar ideas.

 

[stephen sawall]

More bass ?
Does everyone get this result ?

I need to try this.

Is there a way to use the 4/8/16 jack on the back of the Marshall cabs and still be able to use it to get a 4 or 16 ohm load ?

 

[Dallas Marlow]

More bass ?
Does everyone get this result ?

I need to try this.

Is there a way to use the 4/8/16 jack on the back of the Marshall cabs and still be able to use it to get a 4 or 16 ohm load ?

I have no idea, I just removed the jack circuit board put in a single jack and put plastic over the hole/switch area.

 

[JTyson]

I'll have to dig into this and see how mine are wired up, thanks Dallas

 

[Dallas Marlow]

welcome man if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a pm

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Interesting reading from Ted Weber.

Connecting two speakers in parallel is an old trick to smooth out speaker response and enhance the damping of either speaker. HIFI designers took it one step further by connecting two speakers of different sizes in parallel. A speaker has a large impedance increase at its fundamental resonance, and depending on the installation, this can cause the speaker to sound boomy or out of control. By connecting two speakers in parallel, particularly two speakers of different sizes with different resonant frequencies, each speaker will tend to quench or dampen the boominess of the other. Since no two speakers are exactly alike, even two of the same size, that damping will occur, however slight, for any speakers connected in parallel. For speakers connected in series, there appears to be less control, and more of what is called 'back EMF' from the speakers fed back into the output circuit. While that seems rather chaotic, many players prefer the series connection, as it gives them a more textured tone, enhanced breakup, and overall a more desireable tone for guitar work. It's totally subjective, of course, and many factors affect the end result, such as voice coil size, gap energy, closed back/open back, output circuit damping, etc. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is try both arrangements since you have the luxury of impedance tap selection, and go with the configuration you like the best.

 

[~Abstract~]

From AikenAmps: A simple way to add a switch and see which you like better. I've never used this so I can't vouch for its accuracy...

 

[Dallas Marlow]

From AikenAmps: A simple way to add a switch and see which you like better. I've never used this so I can't vouch for its accuracy...

Yea thats def cool!

 

[Dallas Marlow]

Interesting reading from Ted Weber.

Connecting two speakers in parallel is an old trick to smooth out speaker response and enhance the damping of either speaker. HIFI designers took it one step further by connecting two speakers of different sizes in parallel. A speaker has a large impedance increase at its fundamental resonance, and depending on the installation, this can cause the speaker to sound boomy or out of control. By connecting two speakers in parallel, particularly two speakers of different sizes with different resonant frequencies, each speaker will tend to quench or dampen the boominess of the other. Since no two speakers are exactly alike, even two of the same size, that damping will occur, however slight, for any speakers connected in parallel. For speakers connected in series, there appears to be less control, and more of what is called 'back EMF' from the speakers fed back into the output circuit. While that seems rather chaotic, many players prefer the series connection, as it gives them a more textured tone, enhanced breakup, and overall a more desireable tone for guitar work. It's totally subjective, of course, and many factors affect the end result, such as voice coil size, gap energy, closed back/open back, output circuit damping, etc. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is try both arrangements since you have the luxury of impedance tap selection, and go with the configuration you like the best.

Yea it's pretty crazy the difference it makes man I was honestly really taken back, it made my V30's sound like v30's and not like ass, and it made my G12H30's really organic, I got more bass out of each of them for sure, as well as more harmonic content, longest sustain and feedback. I've always wondered how people get that really great sustain and feedback that I was just never getting before and now I'm getting it!

 

[Nigel]

Hell yes. Glad folks are getting teh toanz from our threads.